Primer pocket cleaning

[Cat64]

I am sure this theme has been debated many a times (if there is a link to a thread you know please gently guide me there). I am wondering if you guys can state the benefit resulted for cleaning the primer pocket. I have done much reading and I found many opposing philosophies. Even a few savvy competition shooters have stated they do not clean the primer pocket. I would really appreciate if your answer is anchored in factual data rather than opinion. Thank you.

 

[JB02]

Don't have any "data", but I clean that junk out. If I'm going to carefully measure a 0.001-0.002" shoulder bump, chamfer, debut, etc, I'm going to make sure the primer pocket is clean. I uniform new brass. Before I bought a tumbler with stainless media, I used this little knurled carbide tool (I think Lee or Lyman) and gave the pocket a good twist or two with it.

The reason I do it is so the primer sits as flush and square in the pocket as possible. Considering all the other variables in shooting, this is probably at the extreme margins, but it's easy enough to do that there is no excuse not to do it.

 

[Graham]

Not worth your time.

 

[Kirkd]

Primer pocket cleaning

I clean all primer pockets currently, but I'm thinking about changing that and only doing it on my precision rifle that use for 1000 yard matches. And then not worrying bout it on the AR or pistols. Nothing to back it up. Just what I'm going to do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Graham]

Still not worth your time.

 

[damoncali]

I've never seen any benefit on the target, even with a benchrest rifle (not that I'm a terribly good benchrest driver). It certainly doesn't matter for longer range pursuits. Now that I switched to ultrasonic cleaning, it's doesn't matter anyhow, because it cleans them out on its own. The less fussing with the primer pocket the better if you ask me.

 

[witchhunter]

I use a primer pocket uniformer when I first touch a piece of brass, then I am done with the primer pockets forever. Can't tell any difference, not a benchrest shooter, but I shoot a lot of pdogs with several very accurate rifles. I shoot a lot of paper to keep tuned up.

 

[Cat64]

Still not worth your time.

So...zero value added to any kind of cleaning in the pocket. Including when reloading for super accurate distance shooting? Who then came out with this fallacy in the first place...rhetorical question...Interesting discussion...

 

[Graham]

Primer pocket cleaning

Who then came out with this fallacy in the first place...rhetorical question...Interesting discussion...

Not rhetorical: Benchrest shooters, with a capital 'B'. Then it matters.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

As long as your primer pockets are fairly uniform so the primers are being seated fully and consistently I wouldn't personally worry too much about the primer pockets.

There are a number of things people do in the search to build that better mouse trap thinking it's going to make a difference, etc. The reality is that there are only a few key variables we need to worry about for practical long range shooting, i.e. matches or going out and banging steel, etc. You'd be better served by spending less time in the reloading room and more time on shooting. You'll find this in a number of areas of the shooting world such as barrel break in, cleaning, etc. It's all voodoo magic and superstitions that someone became convinced are necessary and someone else started to repeat it down the line. Kind of like talk in the gun stores; a whole lot of BS. Learn what works and what doesn't from practical applications and move on.

 

[leadbullet]

All my caliber shoot a little better than 1/2 MOA wether the pocket is clean or dirty. That's my data. Bad wind call has worse effect on accuracy than the cleanliness of the primer pocket. That 's my experience.
Cheers.

 

[Cat64]

Ok...another question somewhat in the same category then...what lube is the best such that you don't have to wash/tumble/dry/wipe....or whatever...the cases after you run them through the die. I use the One Shot but after I run them in the tumbler again. Just started shooting my 6 BR and after running the cases in the tumbler the flush hole gets stuck with media.

 

[ctso030]

I am new to reloading but with my 260 lapua brass I like to uniform the new brass because it makes it much easier to prime them

 

[BIPMaster]

I clean and uniform the primer pockets, but I often find myself wondering why I spend the extra seconds per case to do so. I figure since I tumble in corncob it is worth my while to clean the pocket since the corncob doesn't clean them out during tumbling. But, I may just be overthinking this step in the process.

 

[StampCreek]

Ok...another question somewhat in the same category then...what lube is the best such that you don't have to wash/tumble/dry/wipe....or whatever...the cases after you run them through the die. I use the One Shot but after I run them in the tumbler again. Just started shooting my 6 BR and after running the cases in the tumbler the flush hole gets stuck with media.

I reload on a Dillon 550 (but don't progressive reload for the 308) and in station 1 have a univeral decapper, this pokes out any media stuck in the flash hole, then prime on the downstroke push. Usually I'll run 50-100 through that alone, then concentrate on loading them up. I don't have anything in the shell plate when I seat except the round being seated. A 550 is total overkill for this reloading but I do pistol too so why buy another press.

 

[mtrmn]

Not worth your time.

BUT....But...

Still not worth your time.

THIS^^^^^^^^

 

[Cat64]

BUT....But...



THIS^^^^^^^^

Thanks...that was very good 'coaching'. It is ok for people to discuss different angles and if you remember I asked for factual data in the first place.

 

[mtrmn]

BUT....But...



THIS^^^^^^^^

Thanks...that was very good 'coaching'. It is ok for people to discuss different angles and if you remember I asked for factual data in the first place.

My only intention was to show my whole-hearted agreement with Graham's statements. If you choose to take it as a personal shot then so be it. I've been through the primer pocket cleaning regimen with zero measurable results. YMMV

 

[Fester47]

I do it after 4 or 5 reloads. Does it make a diff? Who knows. Makes me feel better.

 

[Graham]

Primer pocket cleaning

Does it make a diff? Who knows.

I know. It doesn't. We tested it.

 

[Cat64]

My only intention was to show my whole-hearted agreement with Graham's statements. If you choose to take it as a personal shot then so be it. I've been through the primer pocket cleaning regimen with zero measurable results. YMMV

I guess I misread your post. My apology. I see to many times here guys just being plain rude. Again, not your case. Thank you for the factual response.

 

[rduckwor]

May not make a difference, but it makes me feel better knowing did all I could to make a good round.

RMD

 

[mtrmn]

I guess I misread your post. My apology. I see to many times here guys just being plain rude. Again, not your case. Thank you for the factual response.

No harm done nor intended. I try to be helpful in my posts on matters that I have some knowledge/experience with. Sometimes I can come across as being overly direct or crude, but then I have confessed to being a knuckledragger in the past and that's just part of it.

 

[Foul Mike]

I do generally clean the pockets as I am inspecting the brass during prep. and removing a little more crimp if there was a problem with seating primers on the previous reload.
I do not think many people spend enough time inspecting their brass, load n go.
It may make no difference but if I am reloading brass that has been shot several times then I make sure I did clean the pockets.
I just don't like the crap left in there. If you spend the time to make sure everything else is top notch, {bumped the shoulder, trimmed the brass, turned the neck etc]why leave out this small portion of your time cleaning pockets.
I am also an anal retentive kind of guy. Age does that for you and sometimes you are not retentive enough and get a skid mark. Regards, FM

 

[djskit]

All my caliber shoot a little better than 1/2 MOA wether the pocket is clean or dirty. That's my data. Bad wind call has worse effect on accuracy than the cleanliness of the primer pocket. That 's my experience.
Cheers.

Me too...I've cleaned and not cleaned. I've seen no difference. I'd trade the correct wind call for a 1/4 MOA any day of the week.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

You want factual, non rude replies, eh? Sure.

Some of your responses indicate that this is a measurable, quantified proof sort of thing.

Making sure I get the glassy, gritty residue out of the primer pocket doesn't have much to do with measuring groups down range. To use a rude example; I suppose there is no real advantage in wiping my ass after a dump but it just makes me feel a little better: I have no actual proof.

I respect Graham, not least of which for 25,000 posts! But, I disagree when he says the only way to justify cleaning his primer pockets is by measuring groups. BB

 

[timelinex]

I know. It doesn't. We tested it.

What about pocket uniformity, the very first time you use the brass (whether it's lapua, Winchester, or 1x fired Lc)?

 

[Graham]

Primer pocket cleaning

I never said that the only way to justify cleaning my primer pockets is by measuring groups. If someone said that, it wasn't me.

As for uniforming, buy good brass and it's not a concern.

 

[wchartz]

All my caliber shoot a little better than 1/2 MOA wether the pocket is clean or dirty. That's my data. Bad wind call has worse effect on accuracy than the cleanliness of the primer pocket. That 's my experience.
Cheers.

I concur. If your primers will not seat flush or slightly below because of primer residue then clean for that reason or uniform the pockets and usually you do not have to clean any longer. Trigger time will gain you more advantage than the time you spend cleaning pockets.

 

[Houk8539]

I usually clean them after 3 reloads. I have never seen an accuracy change in 100-700 yards. I used to clean after every reload in every rifle but now I can't justify it after not seeing different results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Who knows.(?)

"I know. It doesn't. We tested it."

says; Graham

also says Graham: "I never said that the only way to justify cleaning my primer pockets is by measuring groups."

Okay, whatever. I sure as hell don't want to misquote anybody!

Point is, SOME people see value in cleaning primer pockets. I do it and I would not discourage anybody from cleaning pockets if they felt so inclined. But, I am not a Crusader. If you want cruddy residue in your flash hole, and possible inconsistent seating depths; by all means, don't let my opinion hold you back. Because, I could care fucking less. BB

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I own primer pocket cleaners...but I don't use them.

I own primer pocket uniformers...but I don't use them.

Never said I hadn't used them...I have no use for them.

I deprime before I walnut tumble...the pocket will be clean enough.

Uniform my pockets? Sorry I have a match to shoot...sooner rather than later.

Proof? I am an accomplished shooter with 32 years at the loading bench.

These little tidbits invented by anal compulsive lab geeks will not matter to a rifleman worth his salt...it won't matter if he ain't worth his salt.

Oh...and yes...I have tested it.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I uniform the pockets because I don't want any high primers,especially in my gas guns.
I mount the cutter in a collet in my lathe and run it fairly slow, doesn't take long to do up a batch.
After that the pockets are on their own, but yeah, I do like getting the "crustys" out of the pockets.

Gives me the warm and fuzzies.

 

[Graham]

I uniform the pockets because I don't want any high primers,especially in my gas guns.

If you have to uniform the primer pockets to prevent high primers, throw away that brass because it's not to spec.

 

[siscoe308]

So you guys are saying that clean primers pockets are pointless?! So my Harvey Deprimer and Thumblers tumbler w/ SS media are nothing more than tall glasses of Kool aid! I've been bamboozled....Whats next? leaving cookies out doesn't bring Santa? My life is shattered

 

[Mad_Charlie]

If you have to uniform the primer pockets to prevent high primers, throw away that brass because it's not to spec.

What!!, and lose my warm and fuzzies?? No way Mon!

 

[Victor N TN]

If you're shooting IPSC or IDPA where the target is the size of a dinner plate, why clean? If your shooting 1K yards or even benchrest, everyone I know of shooting those cleans. But the final call is up to you. Where on the quality scale are you looking to shoot?

 

[BuzzBoss915]

On the matter of discarding brass if the primer pocket is nonuniform. About 2 maybe 3 years ago, I bought 100 243 Lapua cases, and every one of them had a shallow primer pocket. I dunno, maybe around a hundred bucks and according to some advice herein, I should toss the cases when I had the means of uniforming those pockets so that they seated my primers just below flush?

That's one reason to waste your time by "uniforming" your primer pockets.

In the matter of wasting time on the bench when you could just as easily waste your time shooting. Some chores on the reloading bench have value and some time spent at the range blowing off hundreds of rounds, to no purpose, has very little practical value. Time in grade, (so to speak) does not necessarily make one an expert.

My attitude is, leave no stone unturned. When I miss, it's me, and not a dirty primer pocket. Yes, I am exaggerating the importance, but just to make a point. We have disciples that fret about a thousandth deeper seating on the bullet resulting in a miss, even if it is just the X ring. Why should I religiously follow one practice and claim another does no good whatsoever? And, BTW I am not accusing anyone of saying that.

So, reverse the argument. Prove to me that I am causing harm by cleaning my primer pockets. Yeah, I know. You didn't say that, either. But, we should take it on faith? Cleaning primer pockets doesn't help because "we tested it."

Let's reduce it to simple terms: I clean primer pockets because I do not believe I am wasting my time by doing so.

On the other hand,; someone else says: I'm not wasting my time cleaning primer pockets, I can't see where it helps.

We will never get total agreement, and what it amounts to is; an article of faith. Like wearing my LUCKY SOCKS.
BB

 

[armorpl8chikn]

The shoe doesn't fit BB so I will not try to put it on. Are you insinuating that I spend most of my time blasting ammo away at a bench? Ask anyone in IHMSA if they ever heard of me, especially in Region 2, I bet they know my handle and can give you my name. I run matches and shoot matches and that doesn't recommend anyone but the list of folks that value my opinion in person is quite long.

If a primer pocket is hideous then god damn, yeah I may clean it. If I am shooting 1000yd BR(which I most certainly played for several years) then yes, clean your fucking pockets.
But this is a tactical type shooting site, or I am completely fucking crtazy. Some here have guys applying BR voodoo to every cartridge they shoot, even in their minute of bulldozer clankenbanger.

You have never seen me hanging out in the reloading section of 6BR.com. There is a reason why I don't, I don't play those games anymore.

Keep the new guys standing on their heads. I expected better from you. I haven't posted in here in a long time and it is painfully clear to me when I do why I stay the hell away. It is also clear to me why half the people I meet at a match or range trip are so fucking confused about why their fucking factory rifle won't shoot .5MOA. Cause they did everything they were told on the internet, they were good boys, spent countless hours going over the delicate minutiae of BR voodoo and yet....they continue to wear a barrel out for no good reason searching for something that isn't there.
I say prove it helps...you say prove it doesn't, goddammit this shit gives me a headache.

I say I am an accomplished shooter, you say doesn't matter. Whatever. Keep twisting fledgling reloaders in knots, I have better things to do. I have to go prep some brass and load some ammo for my eldest daughter, she is finally going to shoot a match with me, I gotta call her and ask if she wants her pockets cleaned.

Walnut media and NuFinish car polish, looks clean enough to me..


"I've tested it."

 

[jonesy]

Tumble with stainless media. It will clean the pockets while the brass is tumbling, so you won't have to worry about whether it's worth your time or not.

Personally, I don't see why it would make a difference. I think a lot of the stuff people come up with (RE reloading methods) is hocus-pocus superstition anyways. I've never had a problem with any of my reloads being inaccurate as long as I did proper load development.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

CALM DOWN, AMIGO !

I was not pointing at you. BB

 

[oldfudd]

OK, as a guy who can't afford Lapua 308 brass, and who normally shoots "lesser" grade brass (I know, I should be ashamed of myself), let me ask another related question. What are your thoughts on de-burring the inside of the flash hole to eliminate any potential burrs left after the flash hole is punched during manufacture? My limited understanding is that this only has to be done once, since the burrs do not re-appear. If this is a stupid question, flame away, as I'm getting used to it. Thanks to anybody who gives me an honest opinion.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

It is not a stupid question. Should I clean my primer pockets is not a stupid question. Why should I clean my primer pockets, when should I clean my primer pockets...not stupid questions.
Asking a question and setting up the field to limit the answers is incredibly stupid.

Do I have a flash hole deburring tool? Yes

Do I use it? No.

Have I ever used it? Yes.

Will it make a difference in performance for 99% of shooters? No.

Use your best judgement. I have used Remington brass...yes the flash hole burrs are hideous, but if the flash hole is relatively round and open...it will not matter. Now if you are shooting BR games, burrs MAY matter, but if you are using brass with burrs for BR, you have bigger problems than flash hole burrs to overcome. Burr...just had to say it one more time.

You only do it once and no it doesn't hurt, but I can find no evidence that it helps. I have too many brass to process to do any of them. I use brass from pull down LC68 M2 ball(30-06) to make my precision rifle loads and have no problem hitting 1MOA plates at 1000yds. The only prep I do to them is anneal, size and trim, for uniform neck tension. Uniform neck tension? Yeah that does matter. I can quantify that easily....but to some, even it won't matter. It all depends on what you shoot, how you shoot, how far you shoot, and what you need from your equipment. I think too many people try to customize their ammo when they should customize their rifle and/or spend more time shooting with purpose. That is my disingenuous opinion.

No my mouth is not a prayer book. I am simply a French model.

 

[yoteman]

damm, i need to put my lesh back on the dog.
joe i do agree, also graham with you on this.
i also would spend alot of time with deburring flash hole, an primer pocket cleaning
but i also do not shoot BENCHREST,anymore(an for a good reason).
i have yet to ask a coyote, if he could tell me if i did, or did not clean my primer pockets
because when i walk over to ask the $1000.00 question, they want respond.
(BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD)....
but the steel plates allway sound off pretty loud latley,
should you clean /should you not clean.totaly up to you.
but if you carefully read ALL the post here, it should ansewer your question!!!
try it for your self shoot 5rd all carefully preped/an 5 not. but dont brenchrest it.
shoot real world like you would shoot a tactical match,or hunting
but if you perfer to shoot BR, then what the hell you doing here in the snipers hide!!!
go play on 6BR.com.
not trying to push anyone away. but DAMM.you asked the question,(an it is not a stupid question)
but some here just want. to here thenself talk
i also dont post in this section much an chikn is right,to many french models

 

[damoncali]

OK, as a guy who can't afford Lapua 308 brass, and who normally shoots "lesser" grade brass (I know, I should be ashamed of myself), let me ask another related question. What are your thoughts on de-burring the inside of the flash hole to eliminate any potential burrs left after the flash hole is punched during manufacture? My limited understanding is that this only has to be done once, since the burrs do not re-appear. If this is a stupid question, flame away, as I'm getting used to it. Thanks to anybody who gives me an honest opinion.

In a competitive benchrest context, I can see (theoretical) justification for this - the burrs will materially change the area of the primer's "flame", which one might reasonably think changes ignition. But in practice, nobody in benchrest uses brass with punched holes. For 3/4 MOA+ "tactical" loads, it's not an important factor.

If cost is driving this, skip the primer pocket tool and make sure you're sizing with an appropriate shoulder bump and don't load too hot. Keeping pressure down and case stretch to a minimum will stretch your dollars by maximizing case life.

 

[yoteman]

Cat64, sorry man i was not shooting at you.
after i reread my post, it did come across that way, and for that i am sorry.
it just pisses me off when grown men act like 10yr old's on who has the biggest pecker.
if you ask that same question on a range to 20 different, shooters you may get 20 different ansewer's,
i do indeed know a few here on the hide, that know what they are talking about,the other's well you have to learn to read between th lines(or lie's).
thoese that do indeed know, yall know who you are, thanks for you honsest input,
i do learn alot from yall,(even if i have spent many year's on trigger) still find something useful every day.
now to your point if cleaning get you a nat's ass better, an you feel it is worth your time, by all means do it.
i for one, as many other noted seasoned shooters, feel it is not worth the extra time, when there are other area's
that need more time well spent.
just try it for youself, you may find the dark side was right/may not
good luck
YO

 

[Monmouth]

Dirty primer pockets have a Hazmat symbol in them. Makes me feel badass and for sure makes my 308 gasser badasser.

Get me Jules' wallet.