Private space flight turns the old guards heads

[THE SENTINEL]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47519305/ns/technology_and_science-space/

A company called SPACEX has launched a unmanned capsule
to the international space station.It has caused some
unrest in the Right stuff generation.Why would those men
be against private space flight?The new guy says he can save
90% not being ran by the government.I know itwas the sixies
we had to show russia who was boss.I watched every lift off
and every splash down when I was a kid.what was I really
watching?

 

[delfuego]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

This is also part of the mission...

Beam me up Scotty

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

There was a time when a man, possessing the sort of technology I carry everyday in my pocket, would have been the highest level of nut gatherers. Now, 13 year old's play with tech that would have made the R&D dept of the CIA collectively pee itself in the 60's.

Aside from calculating the trajectory of the shot, etc... how hard can it be to build something which uses principles known since at least Dynastic China?

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how hard can it be to build something which uses principles known since at least Dynastic China?</div></div>

Give it a try and let us know.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Actually have to agree with CS1983 - for a team of experts, how hard can it be?

There's a calculation out there for it....

Now not sa ying NASA doesn't deserve all the credit for that but even NASA came out said they co uld not do it cheaper, the AF is watching as a potential future customer.

That's the right stuff. When free market is given reign they will make it far more efficient than the government.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how hard can it be to build something which uses principles known since at least Dynastic China?</div></div>

Give it a try and let us know. </div></div>

Give me the money and a team of scientists to do it with, and I will, just like SpaceX. I'll even hire you on as the resident electrical engineer who miscalculates something and everyone dies on a later flight.

Deal?

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

This should seriously be a lesson to our elected idiots.

Free market does it cheaper, faster and better than .gov.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was a time when a man, possessing the sort of technology I carry everyday in my pocket, would have been the highest level of nut gatherers. Now, 13 year old's play with tech that would have made the R&D dept of the CIA collectively pee itself in the 60's.

Aside from calculating the trajectory of the shot, etc... how hard can it be to build something which uses principles known since at least Dynastic China?

</div></div>

HaHa ask North Korea!

I'm a big fan of Spacex. To anyone who says the US is in decline THIS is a story of why its not.

Spacex has received almost $400 million in direct US government funding.

Chinese government officials have stated that they <span style="font-weight: bold">cannot</span> match the low cost of Spacex flights.

More reading here:
http://www.economist.com/node/21554170

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

In case you are interested, here is the launch - taken from an FPV drone...at 3:44 am!

Watch for the shockwave, way cool!

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KburnQRulRQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KburnQRulRQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[shootist2004]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

this guy owns paypal....

 

[SledDog]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Elon Musk is the dude. Billionaire also behind paypal and Tesla Motors.

 

[Phil1]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this guy owns paypal.... </div></div>

He made $150 million when it was sold (his 11% personal stake) to E-Bay.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Give me the money and a team of scientists to do it with, and I will, just like SpaceX.</div></div>

What's the largest project that you've managed, and what was its budget?

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

The lives of 3 other men; millions in dollars, priceless in life.

Don't be a jackass Eric, everyone knows you can just hire someone who knows what you don't and can do what you can't in such an industry.

Do you think that I couldn't hire one of the best teams, besting even the government teams, with the budget and chance of prestige the SpaceX people have?

It's not what ya know, it's who ya know. Give me a budget worth the project and I'll put a rocket in space. It's just as simple as that.

But let's be honest, that's not going to happen, so if you want to get into a pissing match over a hypothetical, be my guest cupcake. Just don't forget the calculate the angle of the dangle, and the possibility of splash back. I'll leave that to you since you're the engineer. Tell me when you're done and have your supervisor proof it; I'll expect a report Friday by 2pm from your dept on the progress of angle-dangle-splash-back calcs and the potential of ramping up production on the urinal game.

Since this urinal settles pissing matches, even between nations, we expect it to bring world peace. If we can integrate clean energy technology in it, we'll be good to go.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Don't let the media advertised price tag of the Space X flight fool you, that's just what their contract pay is, you won't see the cost for the army of NASA folks who have been working this everyday for the past 3+ years show up anywhere....you would shit. Not taking anything away from them, but the advertised "cost" excludes a LOT.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Not taking anything away from them, but the advertised "cost" excludes a LOT. </div></div>

No problem - CS will cut a check for that, too.

I'm still dumbfounded that our society has managed to trivialize rocket science. Just because something has been done previously doesn't make it easy or simple the next time around - especially not when the talent who did the job the last time around have retired or left this mortal coil, and when the supply base for the material basically dried-up with the end of the cold war.

It's particularly disappointing that the difficulty of this task isn't obvious to anyone who is participating on a forum dedicated to ballistic accomplishments. I guess it's either easier or more satisfying to troll than it is to appreciate the achievement of others

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

You're dumbfounded and apparently don't read too well either chief, cost is what this whole exercise is about. It's great the rich guy can bring 50's technology up to speed launching a small trailer by standing on the shoulders of folks who've operated a vehicle a few orders of magnitude more complex for 30 years. If you're not intimate with the specifics of what goes on behind the scenes you're just spewing garbage bro.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Not taking anything away from them, but the advertised "cost" excludes a LOT. </div></div>

No problem - CS will cut a check for that, too.

I'm still dumbfounded that our society has managed to trivialize rocket science. Just because something has been done previously doesn't make it easy or simple the next time around - especially not when the talent who did the job the last time around have retired or left this mortal coil, and when the supply base for the material basically dried-up with the end of the cold war.

It's particularly disappointing that the difficulty of this task isn't obvious to anyone who is participating on a forum dedicated to ballistic accomplishments. I guess it's either easier or more satisfying to troll than it is to appreciate the achievement of others

</div></div>

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Since this is so damn easy, then let me know when you and CS are actually up and doing it.

 

[11B-B4]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eric Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since this is so damn easy, then let me know when you and CS are actually up and doing it. </div></div>

ive launched 3 rockets into space... big deal.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Cool, you guys win - starting a private company to build rockets is a piece of cake.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Eric, I seriously gotta ask this:

Do you have any idea of whom you're speaking to? Maybe just a hint of investigation on your part, will then add some meager amount of credibility to your comments. Maybe.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Hey, Elon Musk has come to play in my industry as well. The funny thing is that our collective reaction was about 180 degrees different - which is basically to state, "Hey, this shit is a lot harder than it looks". And guess what, even Musk now admits that it's a lot harder than it looks. The technical portion of designing and building stuff is indeed pretty easy, since the rules of physics are pretty damn well-known by this point. It's every other piece of minutiae that presents such a fierce challenge, which can be attested to by anyone who's ever run what appears to be the most basic manufacturing operation.

In all sincerity, I yield this conversation to the honest-to-goodness rocket scientists. If this stuff is so easy, good for all of us!

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Eric, the entirety of what I have been saying can be reduced to this:

Money makes these things happen, as the scientists need the money. Provide the money and the chance at prestige, as opposed to being lost in doing so much for a gov't entity's reputation, and the damn thing will go into space.

What's the difference between a govt and private industry? Nothing really, except the amount of red tape and overall effectiveness, cost of operation, etc.

That the government has built itself up so as to automatically seem like the leader, is false. The government only did what a private company would do, as the intent of the Space program was all but a business venture anyway. Instead of another private competitor, we had the Soviets. And all this was accomplished with private individuals who signed a govt contract, had a budget, and a mission focus.

It was ultimately private individuals' historical scientific achievements that allowed the gov scientists to act for the gov.

The individual man, teamed with others, put rockets into space. The gov't just cut the check to do it. I too can cut a check if I have the funds.

That's all I'm saying bro. It's a pretty simple concept.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The individual man, teamed with others, put rockets into space. The gov't just cut the check to do it. I too can cut a check if I have the funds.

That's all I'm saying bro. It's a pretty simple concept.

</div></div>

Understood, and thank you for clarifying your position - it was very helpful to me.

Where my frustration comes from is that society increasingly trivializes technical and business accomplishments as being the result of some formulaic approach. Money is certainly a requirement to make things happen - as any small-business owner can attest to in this day and age - but ultimately, successful enterprises are built upon much more than just a fat checkbook.

 

[cavscout1983]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

Indeed. I approach these concepts from the understanding of historical patronage.

One thing I think has destroyed society is the misunderstanding of the value of ability and skills vs money.

All work, whether it be art, science, literature, etc. has historically had patronage of some sort- a brother's gotta eat while painting the mural on the ceiling, ya know. In other words, some know-nothing, or even know-something, pays a knows-alot to produce a work.

That can take many forms including direct commissions, free reign, etc. Sometimes it can mean free reign on a direct commission where the idea and outcome is determined, but the way to do it is left to the discretion of the one hired.

At the end of the day, the work may be the work of a hireling, but brilliant men don't fare so well, or produce much, when reduced to poverty: enter the fat checkbook.

 

[E. Bryant]

Re: Private space flight turns the old guards heads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the end of the day, the work may be the work of a hireling, but brilliant men don't fare so well, or produce much, when reduced to poverty: enter the fat checkbook.

</div></div>

If it's alright with you, I totally intend to borrow this quote the next time I get into a project budget discussion either at work or at home