Suppressors Pro' and con's of suppressors?

[KQguy]

I shoot a 7mmWSM,and putting a can on it has alway's been in the back of my mind.I would like to hear from people that shoot magnum cartridges,and let me know what your opinion of what the pro's and con's are?Mostly interested in hearing about accuracy and recoil difference from using a brake,but any other pros and cons I would like to hear about also.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Pros: No Hearing protection anymore
Harder to determine where YOU are shooting from
Less recoil

Cons: Expensive
slightly longer/heavier gun
All the noobs at the range asking endless questions

 

[KQguy]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pros: No Hearing protection anymore
Harder to determine where YOU are shooting from
Less recoil

Cons: Expensive
slightly longer/heavier gun
All the noobs at the range asking endless questions
</div></div>When you say less recoil,do you mean compared to a non-braked rifle,or one with a brake?

 

[Standish]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All the noobs at the range asking endless questions
</div></div>

solution: BLM and national forrests.

Ranges suck.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pros: No Hearing protection anymore
Harder to determine where YOU are shooting from
Less recoil

Cons: Expensive
slightly longer/heavier gun
All the noobs at the range asking endless questions
</div></div>


Yes you will still need hearing protection. Your hearing is still damaged, just much more slowly of course. Especially shooting a magnum

sure the firearm is going to be more front heavy. A factor if your moving around alot with it. But if your going to the range and sitting in one spot it just makes the rifle all around more of a pleasure to shoot.

Join a private range to prevent the retards from asking dumb questions.

 

[biffj]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Every rifle I've ever fired with a suppressor has less recoil than the same rifle with a muzzle brake or without anything. Some brakes are pretty effective but a can has a lot more surface to convert gas velocity into forward pull. The sound reduction is an added bonus. From my 9mm subgun cans to the .338 Lapua suppressor the recoil reduction is evident to all who shoot them.

Hope that helps
Frank

 

[dragoon]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Silencers tend to improve accuracy . They reduce recoil , and dampen barrel harmonics .

 

[Tucsondave]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

All the above. When someone asks me is that legal?, I say no,and ya better not tell anyone either.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Aside from overall length, the only downside is mirage from the can affecting the sight picture. A mirage cover helps, but only delays the inevitable. You can pour cool water over it now and then, but the benefits far outweight the problems.

 

[bm11]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

The only real con I can think of is the fact that you have to pay for them and wait 3+ months after for your form 4 to clear!

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every rifle I've ever fired with a suppressor has less recoil than the same rifle with a muzzle brake or without anything. </div></div>

Wrong.

An effective muzzle brake is MORE effective tha ANY can (unless the can weighs 10#).

Can recoil is a push heavy push. I love shooting suppressed but, you'll have much better luck spotting your own shots when using an effective brake like the little bastard, tank or thruster.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YourMotherTrebek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes you will still need hearing protection. Your hearing is still damaged, just much more slowly of course. Especially shooting a magnum </div></div>

Wow, I shoot my .223, .308, and WSM all through the same can, none of them bother me, I guess my hearing is past the point of safety.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When someone asks me is that legal?, I say no,and ya better not tell anyone either. </div></div>

ROFLMAO thanks Dave. I'll have to use that one!

 

[biffj]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every rifle I've ever fired with a suppressor has less recoil than the same rifle with a muzzle brake or without anything. </div></div>

Wrong.

An effective muzzle brake is MORE effective tha ANY can (unless the can weighs 10#).

Can recoil is a push heavy push. I love shooting suppressed but, you'll have much better luck spotting your own shots when using an effective brake like the little bastard, tank or thruster. </div></div>

I will disagree with you based on actual shooting and also from ballistic pendulum data showing that they can be as good or better than a brake. Since we are taking a volume of high velocity gas and converting the energy of speed into forward pull with either method the suppressor has a huge advantage of area over the brake. A brake can also convert some of that forward gas velocity into forward thrust by diverting the gasses rearward but the gain from that isn't enough to make a huge difference. I don't think there is a huge difference between them but I'd much prefer the can over the brake. My neighbors at the range prefer the can too. No one likes to shoot next to a high powered rifle with a brake for long.....
My opinions of course and you are entitled to yours too, even if they're wrong.
Frank

 

[banks74]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

I shoot with a can on my 7wsm all the time. In fact I maybe have only shot it a couple of times without a can.

Cons-
wait time and cost.

Pros-
Less recoil
less dirt and crap being stirred up
No hearing protection required (at least It doesn't hurt my ears anymore)
no loss of accuacy

 

[IrishArrow]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

I shoot 7wsm supressed wouldn't go back, no more blast!!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Only con I can see is that I can't afford them right now. Economy ever turns around I plan on grabbing a couple.

For many the cons are length, balance and you can't hunt in many places with one (heck you can't go to some states with one).

 

[csi:cyberspace]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I will disagree with you based on actual shooting and also from ballistic pendulum data showing that they can be as good or better than a brake. Since we are taking a volume of high velocity gas and converting the energy of speed into forward pull with either method the suppressor has a huge advantage of area over the brake. A brake can also convert some of that forward gas velocity into forward thrust by diverting the gasses rearward but the gain from that isn't enough to make a huge difference. I don't think there is a huge difference between them but I'd much prefer the can over the brake. My neighbors at the range prefer the can too. No one likes to shoot next to a high powered rifle with a brake for long.....
My opinions of course and you are entitled to yours too, even if they're wrong.
Frank </div></div>
Ditto that. All mine recoil far less with the can than a brake, be it my FTE, Vandenberg, or Armalite brake.

 

[KQguy]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Thanks for all the input,looks like I will start saving up for one,I plan on getting a Shark suppressor.

 

[REMF_95]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Another con to think about is what you do if you need to sell it. These can sometimes be difficult to unload if you figure out that it doesn't meet your needs. Not always...but it can be tough.

 

[Arevalosocom]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REMF_95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another con to think about is what you do if you need to sell it. These can sometimes be difficult to unload if you figure out that it doesn't meet your needs. Not always...but it can be tough. </div></div>

This tends to be true only if you buy/bought a cheaper name/brand.

High end ones still have resale value.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Notice why you really don't see too many used suppressors for sale?

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every rifle I've ever fired with a suppressor has less recoil than the same rifle with a muzzle brake or without anything. </div></div>

Wrong.

An effective muzzle brake is MORE effective tha ANY can (unless the can weighs 10#).

Can recoil is a push heavy push. I love shooting suppressed but, you'll have much better luck spotting your own shots when using an effective brake like the little bastard, tank or thruster. </div></div>

I will disagree with you based on actual shooting and also from ballistic pendulum data showing that they can be as good or better than a brake. Since we are taking a volume of high velocity gas and converting the energy of speed into forward pull with either method the suppressor has a huge advantage of area over the brake. A brake can also convert some of that forward gas velocity into forward thrust by diverting the gasses rearward but the gain from that isn't enough to make a huge difference. I don't think there is a huge difference between them but I'd much prefer the can over the brake. My neighbors at the range prefer the can too. No one likes to shoot next to a high powered rifle with a brake for long.....
My opinions of course and you are entitled to yours too, even if they're wrong.
Frank </div></div>

With a can, the SAME volume of gas is escapeing from the muzzle of the rifle, therefore the recoil energy is the same as no muzzle device only now the recoil is spread over a longer period of time, hence the "push".

With an EFFECTIVE brake, the energy is diverted to the sides as well as catching the brake and pulling the device forward.

I still prefer shooting with a can however, a muzzle brake is a more effective recoil reducing device.

 

[biffj]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

[quote/]
With a can, the SAME volume of gas is escapeing from the muzzle of the rifle, therefore the recoil energy is the same as no muzzle device only now the recoil is spread over a longer period of time, hence the "push".

With an EFFECTIVE brake, the energy is diverted to the sides as well as catching the brake and pulling the device forward.

I still prefer shooting with a can however, a muzzle brake is a more effective recoil reducing device. [/quote]

Thats a new one on me.....I guess elementary physics is wrong.

How about this:The gasses in the suppressor are actually reduced in volume by cooling and reduced substantially in velocity. That lost energy had to go somewhere and where it went was into the suppressor. The high energy, high velocity gasses slam into the suppressor baffles pushing the baffle forward. This reduces the velocity of the gas while transferring energy to the baffle. It works exactly the same way in a good muzzle brake-high velocity gas pushes the brake forward and in the process reduces the speed an energy contained in the gasses. In a brake the gasses diverted to the sides makes a very small difference in recoil reduction and a good brake the same gasses are redirected to the rear creating thrust like a rocket engine which helps pull the brake and thus the barrel forward. Once again however the amount of pull created is substantially smaller than the original push from the gas hitting the brake. Its simple physics.
In any case, no need to argue about it here. You are welcome to come shoot my Desert Tactical .338 Lapua with the can, the brake and nothing to judge for yourself.

Pros of a can in my book:
Cans are a great way to make friends at the range, they help keep your hearing intact, they do reduce the recoil, they reduce muzzle blast and thereby the dust and crap raised in front of the rifle, they add weight to the barrel and sometimes stabilize it improving groups and reducing recoil through added weight, they are very effective flash suppressors.

Cons:
They have to be registered, transfers are annoying and cost $200 for the average joe, they add weight making carry more painful, they increase the amount of heat forward of the scope causing mirage which is tougher to get rid of than that from just a barrel, they increase barrel heating and possibly wear, they move the point of impact in relation to a plain barrel zero(though sometimes improving group size in the process), selling used cans is tough because of the transfer tax.

All in all the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my book. I've had yahoos at the range ask "silly" questions and even had one call the cops but the worst thing that happened was I ended up selling a few more suppressors to now well informed customers. I ended up selling a couple 300 fireball rifles too so I think cans are a good thing.


Frank

 

[RayDog]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

A friend made a device to measure recoil a couple years ago. Nothing to serious just wanted to see how close we could get one of our suppressors to a good brake. The brake was a little better. I'd say a good suppressor gets you to about 80% of a good brake.I think the can feels the same or better cause you don't have the blast to contend with. I'll see if he still has that thing around. If he does maybe I'll shot some video.

 

[KQguy]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

Do you have to pay an annual fee after paying the $200 tax?

 

[KYS]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KQguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have to pay an annual fee after paying the $200 tax? </div></div>

No, a one time payment.

 

[long-shot]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

I'm surprised I'm the first to say this, but another con is the need to clean a hell of a lot more often. I used to go 400 rounds without cleaning. Now it's like 150 before the crown is disgusting and the action is very gummy. Otherwise, I love shooting with a can. More accurate, less felt recoil, and obviously a lot quieter.

 

[BookHound]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: long-shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm surprised I'm the first to say this, but another con is the need to clean a hell of a lot more often. I used to go 400 rounds without cleaning. Now it's like 150 before the crown is disgusting and the action is very gummy. Otherwise, I love shooting with a can. More accurate, less felt recoil, and obviously a lot quieter.
</div></div>

To a degree it depends on the suppressor. Some suppressors add less gas blow back than others.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

cool factor. and everyone thinks it's illegal and you say you work for the mob. lol

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Thats a new one on me.....I guess elementary physics is wrong.

In any case, no need to argue about it here. You are welcome to come shoot my Desert Tactical .338 Lapua with the can, the brake and nothing to judge for yourself.

Frank </div></div>

I may have to take you up on that because a jaws can on a 338 is not as effective as a apa fat bastard brake on the same gun.

I just don't want a guy who is used to shooting an effective brake on a magnum to buy a can expecting the same level of recoil reduction.

If you have the chance to shoot a can on your rifle before you commit, I recommend you do it.

 

[csi:cyberspace]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you have the chance to shoot a can on your rifle before you commit, I recommend you do it. </div></div>
Best advice in the thread!

 

[biffj]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Thats a new one on me.....I guess elementary physics is wrong.

In any case, no need to argue about it here. You are welcome to come shoot my Desert Tactical .338 Lapua with the can, the brake and nothing to judge for yourself.

Frank </div></div>

I may have to take you up on that because a jaws can on a 338 is not as effective as a apa fat bastard brake on the same gun.

I just don't want a guy who is used to shooting an effective brake on a magnum to buy a can expecting the same level of recoil reduction.

If you have the chance to shoot a can on your rifle before you commit, I recommend you do it.</div></div>




I don't know what a Jaws can or a fat bastard brake is so I can't comment but I will wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion of shooting the gun and the can before buying. Always a good idea to do a test drive.

I'm shooting my own designed can on the DT rifle. Where are you in Ohio....I'm just west of Richmond, IN. Maybe we can get together and do some good arguing while we shoot some nice quiet (or extra loud) rifles.

Frank

 

[gunslotreaper308]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

pros: sound supression!

cons: size, weight and registration

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

I used to get about 700-1000 rds out of my wildcat 7mm mags. I would not invest in setting up a barrel for that little shooting, which is why the .260 and 308 are so often used. For me a 7 mag is a hunting cartridge and I don't want a can to carry around and up the mountains for one shot.
RTH

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Pro' and con's of suppressors?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: biffj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm shooting my own designed can on the DT rifle. <span style="font-weight: bold">Where are you in Ohio....I'm just west of Richmond, IN</span>. Maybe we can get together and do some good arguing while we shoot some nice quiet (or extra loud) rifles.

Frank </div></div>

I'm about as smack dab in the middle of Ohio as we can get. Looking at mapquest, you're about 3 hours West. My 338 can is still at the SOT waiting for full transfer. We may have to get together in the spring. Or.......... come on over to Thunder Valley for a match one weekend this year.

Jim