Problems (?) at the range with a cheap .22 single shot

[randello88]

Hi guys, i am new to the forum. I have read many threads on many different subjects before deciding to sign in. I am glad to be on the forum, It Will be a valuable resource. Last thing before postimg my question: i am from Italy so english Is not my native language.. there Will be typos in my posts. Sorry about that.

Down to the question. Is It possibile that a cheap single shot .22 (chiappa Little badger), even with a properly mounted and stable scope, during a shooting session changes POI (Yesterday It started Grouping on the left of about 1.5 inches at 25 meters) because of the dirt/warm barrel and, right after cleaning, zero comes back to normal? Another thing i noticed Is that also minor variations of barrel temperature Will affect accuracy and POI, Just like shooting positions. Even with great consistency in shooting position, temperature of the barrel, dirt in the bore, ammo (same lot) and enviroment, i can get an average of 0.5-1 inch 5 shot groups at 25 yards with center x! Sometimes Better, sometimes worse. When it's worse it's because of a flier. Many times, from a cold and clean bore, i have to shoot 3 or 4 fouling shots and then the subsequent 5 ones touch each other. Consider Also that the rifle has a 4x hawke scope on It and that the rifle Is not ergonomic at all. I tried 5 different brands of 40 grains Subsonica and the only match ammo i tried are center x.

I am not Expert on .22s behaviour at the range. There Is something that doesn't sound right to you? Did you experienced something similar?

Thanks!!

I am not a precisione shooter but i am a hunter and with my hunting rifles i am very accurate. So i was with my cz452 varmint: that rifles was able to literally 1 hole groups at 50 m with lapua center x.

 

[steve123]

Might be the Hawke scope. They are the scope brand I didn't ever buy because of the bad reputation in my Field Target air rifle club.

I wouldn't expect much out of that rifle either but good enough for squirrels and rabbits at normal distances.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

All I can say is welcome to the forum. I don't think I could give any useful advice. My guess work wouldn't have any value unless I was there to witness the shooting.

 

[Tortuga]

Ciao!
I searched around Rimfire Central forum and the problem may be the plastic picatinny rail flexing on you. Folks over there have good luck swapping out to an aluminum rail.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=45712565&pp=25&page=2

 

[atvman400]

I would go with Tortuga's suggestion. Usually a shift of POI when already lubed is caused by something moving. First shot out of my Anschutz at an A-36 target is always 3 o'clock in the 9 ring. 2nd shoot is almost always back to drilling the center and 3rd shoot you can shoot for score as it will be good.
Scope rail flexing makes sense.

 

[randello88]

Thanks for the answers. I tought about the plastic rail flexing but the poi shift phenomenon seem to consistently dependent on shooting positions and cold bore shots to be due to the rail flexing. I Also tried flexing the rail and lightly beating the scope while shooting a group but the poi don't shift. Maybe i am Just asking too much to this Little rifle Considering that with a warm bore with less than an hundred rounds trough It After the last cleaning i get more or less 2 moa at 25 m.

Maybe this rifle Is not suited to be so accurate with the First cold bore shot even if It fouled. Someone says in .22s It can happen because the lead deposits are not softened in the bore causing a shift.

I don't use this gun for hunting because it's illegal here in Italy but i wonder how .22 small.game hunting cope with this issue in an hunting application

 

[randello88]

Might be the Hawke scope. They are the scope brand I didn't ever buy because of the bad reputation in my Field Target air rifle club.

I wouldn't expect much out of that rifle either but good enough for squirrels and rabbits at normal distances.

Here in Italy hawke scopes have a fairly good reputation Considering their price range

 

[Near miss]

I would try:
Clean the gun completely, a good yearly throughout service.
Clean the barrel and chamber throughoutly. Check the barrel is also properly attached.

Clean stock and stock to action mating surfaces.
Check stock screws and attachment points on the stock (no wood splitted etc) and make improvements so the screws get good even pressure on stock. Add shims or whatever to get the stock a good hold of the action.

Torque stock screws. If you do not have any torquing devices, just start where the stock will stay stationary - the lowest torque possible.

Then go back and test.

If same results still come out, change the scope.

 

[randello88]

I would try:
Clean the gun completely, a good yearly throughout service.
Clean the barrel and chamber throughoutly. Check the barrel is also properly attached.

Clean stock and stock to action mating surfaces.
Check stock screws and attachment points on the stock (no wood splitted etc) and make improvements so the screws get good even pressure on stock. Add shims or whatever to get the stock a good hold of the action.

Torque stock screws. If you do not have any torquing devices, just start where the stock will stay stationary - the lowest torque possible.

Then go back and test.

If same results still come out, change the scope.

Thanks for the answer. Little badger Is a basculant single shot. There are no action screws as far as i know.

Why changing the scope? What are the elemento that make you think the problem Is there? I see a noticeable impact of temperature and dirtiness of the bore and chamber, the scope Is the only thing that seems to be working fine. There were no shift in poi from a warm dirty bore, as i said above, and the scope tracks fine.
L

 

[Near miss]

Thanks for the answer. Little badger Is a basculant single shot. There are no action screws as far as i know.

Why changing the scope? What are the elemento that make you think the problem Is there? I see a noticeable impact of temperature and dirtiness of the bore and chamber, the scope Is the only thing that seems to be working fine. There were no shift in poi from a warm dirty bore, as i said above, and the scope tracks fine.
L

In my mind the process of troubleshooting rifle precision includes always a scope change. But if you have basically already determined the scope works 100% on another rifle it is definitely good for me.

 

[randello88]

In my mind the process of troubleshooting rifle precision includes always a scope change. But if you have basically already determined the scope works 100% on another rifle it is definitely good for me.

To me It seems that if you want to achieve good accuracy with this rifle you have to be really consistent, Also in regard to barrel temperature and dirtiness. Otherwise, if you don't care about clean bore shots, cold bore shots, shooting stance, etc you get a 5 MOA gun. If you pay attention to these factors you get 1 MOA 5 shots groups
Does It seems possible to you?

 

[ZG47A]

Two things occurred to me. Firstly, a light rifle like that will always be sensitive to hold (and more so with that stock arrangement). Keep your forward hand just under the chamber and try to put consistent tension on the butt stock. Secondly, as Tortuga mentioned, the plastic mounting rail might be an issue. Having said that, it might just need to be bedded.
I have considered buying one as a trap line rifle but I already have light .22 rifles that will serve. Why have you bothered putting a scope on it? A basic peep backsight with a blade foresight would probably be the best setup for that gun.

 

[randello88]

Two things occurred to me. Firstly, a light rifle like that will always be sensitive to hold (and more so with that stock arrangement). Keep your forward hand just under the chamber and try to put consistent tension on the butt stock. Secondly, as Tortuga mentioned, the plastic mounting rail might be an issue. Having said that, it might just need to be bedded.
I have considered buying one as a trap line rifle but I already have light .22 rifles that will serve. Why have you bothered putting a scope on it? A basic peep backsight with a blade foresight would probably be the best setup for that gun.

hi put on a scope because I think that a .22 Is much more enjoyable at the range with it. In a survival situation the package without a scope would be much more compact for sure. Plus I don't like the plastic sights.I tried to be as consistent as possible as far as holding the rifle while going for groups and, as i said above, I was able to get decent grouping with Extreme consistency in shooting position, dirtyness and temperature of the bore. If i don't care to shooting position and temperature The of the bore groups open up to 2 MOA, of i take a clean bore shot sometimes the bullet goes Also 5 or 6 moa low right. The plastic rail moves, that's evident, but It comes back to the zero After being flexed..

Thanks for the answer

 

[randello88]

Might be the Hawke scope. They are the scope brand I didn't ever buy because of the bad reputation in my Field Target air rifle club.

I wouldn't expect much out of that rifle either but good enough for squirrels and rabbits at normal distances.

All I can say is welcome to the forum. I don't think I could give any useful advice. My guess work wouldn't have any value unless I was there to witness the shooting.

Ciao!
I searched around Rimfire Central forum and the problem may be the plastic picatinny rail flexing on you. Folks over there have good luck swapping out to an aluminum rail.
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=45712565&pp=25&page=2

I would go with Tortuga's suggestion. Usually a shift of POI when already lubed is caused by something moving. First shot out of my Anschutz at an A-36 target is always 3 o'clock in the 9 ring. 2nd shoot is almost always back to drilling the center and 3rd shoot you can shoot for score as it will be good.
Scope rail flexing makes sense.

I would try:
Clean the gun completely, a good yearly throughout service.
Clean the barrel and chamber throughoutly. Check the barrel is also properly attached.

Clean stock and stock to action mating surfaces.
Check stock screws and attachment points on the stock (no wood splitted etc) and make improvements so the screws get good even pressure on stock. Add shims or whatever to get the stock a good hold of the action.

Torque stock screws. If you do not have any torquing devices, just start where the stock will stay stationary - the lowest torque possible.

Then go back and test.

If same results still come out, change the scope.

In my mind the process of troubleshooting rifle precision includes always a scope change. But if you have basically already determined the scope works 100% on another rifle it is definitely good for me.

Two things occurred to me. Firstly, a light rifle like that will always be sensitive to hold (and more so with that stock arrangement). Keep your forward hand just under the chamber and try to put consistent tension on the butt stock. Secondly, as Tortuga mentioned, the plastic mounting rail might be an issue. Having said that, it might just need to be bedded.
I have considered buying one as a trap line rifle but I already have light .22 rifles that will serve. Why have you bothered putting a scope on it? A basic peep backsight with a blade foresight would probably be the best setup for that gun.

Hi, i have an interesting update. I was able to shoot just 10 shots today and i found something interesting. I think the problem was the fact that i had never cleaned the gun with chemicals to dissolve lead residues in the bore. I Always just used a dry bore Snake. Today i filled the bore with ballistol and i left It in the bore for 30 minutes. Then i cleaned the bore with my boresnake. Then i shot a couple fouling shots and went to the range. I was able to get .5 MOA groups at 25 and 50 meters in the 2 groups i shot, even shooting from a could fouled bore and in different positions. The groups were 4 MOA High in comparison to the groups i shot the last time. Now i Remember that when i First tried the rifle i was able to get .5 MOA groups at the range and then i started experiencing all the problems above.

Is It plausible that the accuracy issues were due to lead residues which ballistol dissolved? And what about the fact that the poi was higher today? I really Hope i found the problem.

 

[Near miss]

Is It plausible that the accuracy issues were due to lead residues which ballistol dissolved? And what about the fact that the poi was higher today? I really Hope i found the problem.

I am not sure how much you removed of it. But sometimes less is more.
I have tested Ballistol as barrel a lead remover with a borescope and it really does quite well, if you brush or srub it enough. Like 2-4 minutes minimum per 30min soak or so. Just soaking did not seem to really do much. Same with boretech rimfire solution, it worked much better just by scrubbing it with cotton.

Barrel conditions can really create frustrating problems.

 

[ZG47A]

@randello88 It is also possible that primer compound was building up at the start of the rifling. Rimfire rounds have an excess of priming compound relative to centrefire rounds and that residue builds up much more quickly in a rimfire firearm. Part of the fun of shooting rimfire firearms. Some are more sensitive than others to barrel fouling. Good that you have got your accuracy back.

 

[randello88]

Thanks for the amswers. The Day After tomorrow i Will go to the range and i Will test the accuracy and the zero consistency another time.