Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

[Forrestman]

I don't know if this subject has been covered already, too many posts on Kestrels to weed through. My Kestrel operates fine for a period of time, but every so often it freezes and the control buttons have no effect on the operation until the battery door is opened and closed, a hard reset. After the battery door is opened and closed the unit functions normally for a while, but the compass needs to be re-calibrated and data from memory is lost. This is second unit, same model from Kestrel as the first one I had, and it does the exact same thing. Has anyone had this issue with their Kestrel before? If so, has the problem been fixed or did you switch to a different model? I am wondering if the units with Bluetooth are problematic? The one I have is headed back to Nielson-Kellerman for repair or replacement...very frustrating.

 

[Petey]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

A buddy of mine has this problem. I'll see if I can get him to chime in with his Kestrel issues.

I had to send a 4500NV Bluetooth back to NK because it would not turn on over half the time, especially if had been off for more than a week or so. Opening the battery door and then shutting it again would make the unit work again. NK replaced it and everything has been good since with the new 4500.

 

[flyboy10]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I've had the same problem happen with a BT model and then non-BT.

On the Bluetooth model, with the BT on and connected to a computer, the problem seems to happen more often than with the non-BT model. Right now, I'm in the process of trying to determine if there is a single triggering event that increases the rate of failure (memory overload, BT connection interruption, interference, etc.).

If the non-BT model freezes, I've found that it will eventually start working again. The same is not true for the BT model.

Kestrel was contacted about the problem but they need more information which I'm planning on giving them tomorrow. I'll post again when I hear back if you're interested.

 

[Forrestman]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I am interested in anything you hear, so far this is my second 4500NV w/bluetooth, both units would freeze at random times on mine. One thing that is obvious with both of mine, it happens much more often in cold weather. Another thing that concerns me is that tech support with N-K gives me the same response over the past year and a half, that this is a rarity. They act like this is a new issue, if it was a new issue, why has it happened to me with back to back brand new units? They are good about taking them back for replacement, but if it is an issue with only the bluetooth models I can do without bluetooth and the aggrevation of an undependable meter.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I have one and had no problems thus far... other than when I change batteries and I need to put that rubber piece to isolate the batteries.

 

[J Mack]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I have a 4500NV with Bluetooth and I'm experiencing the same problem.
Open and closing the battery door is the only way I’ve been able restart my kestrel as well.
Looking forward to see if you or Nielsen-kellerman comes up with a permanent fix.

 

[Laseredge]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Same model, 4500NV same problem. I thought it was just an occasional fluke.

 

[J Mack]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I just got off the phone with Nielsen Kellerman Tech Support and they have a software fix for this issue.
Anyone with similar issues should contact them for an RA number.
Tech Support representative Ben Nielsen Toll Free: 800-784-4221

 

[Laseredge]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

J Mack,

Thanks for the info. Will give NK a call.

Lee

 

[Forrestman]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I hope this is correct, I too spoke to Ben Nielson a couple of days prior to starting this post, received an RA number to return my unit. At that time N-K didn't have a fix, but he assured me that engineering would get right on it. Unfortunately this is the same story I heard last Spring.

 

[21Bravo]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I was just getting ready to order the same Kestrel. Makes a guy believe this issue is quite widespread. Tag to follow the developments.

 

[matt2143]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I have a non blue tooth model and have experienced no issues thus far, I have heard it is mostly BT models but some non BT models have. I generally do not have the unit on for more than 10 minutes at a time. Is there any trends others are seeing? Are the units being left on all day and then off for several more?

 

[flyboy10]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

My experience has been that the issue occurs after prolonged usage (>1 hr). The first time it happened, I was testing with Doppler radar and had the Kestrel linked to a laptop to show realtime data when I realized the data was frozen. I thought it was a bad link until I downloaded the history off the Kestrel which showed that it froze ~2hrs into the test. It happened again the next time I was testing (data was collected for around 3.5hrs).

I've never had it freeze in less than 30 min.

 

[21Bravo]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Seeing the issue primarily with prolonged use is good news for some but not for me. Mine will likely see the most use shooting prairie dogs. In this situation it would on and set up with the weather vane for extended periods.

 

[Forrestman]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

If you will notice that even with the unit turned to the off mode, it is still recording data, look at your graph screens the next time you turn it on and you will see that there is a history being recorded. So as long as you have batteries in the unit it is on in some form or fashion. When I first noticed a problem with the two units that have owned is during colder weather, they would not respond to button commands at all. Either freeze in whatever mode it was in or fail to turn on the screen, if it was in the off mode. Problems occur in warmer weather too, just not as often. If it didn't cost so damn much, I would just chalk it up to being a POS and throw it away.

 

[louboyd]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I've had a model 4500NV+Horus atrag + bluetooth for about a week. So far I haven't shot with it, I'm just learning how to use it and getting everything set up. Mine displays Iss: 4.61 on the screen when it's turned on. So far everything has worked as specified. The bluetooth interface problems were all with my computers and learning how to use it.

So far I've found two pieces of Kestrel and/or Horus specific software which work with the unit. No computer is needed to run the Horus Atrag internal software, but this program makes loading gun data much easier:

http://www.horusvision.com/download/HKInstaller.zip

This program is needed to communicate by bluetooth between the computer and the Kestrel in the weather mode.
http://www.nkhome.com/software/Kestrel_Communicator_V1.9.0.exe
This software also allows download and plotting of data in the weather mode.
The software link on the Horus Vision site is to version V1.7. The newer 1.9 has a few more features. Either works.

I'm using a Kensington K33902US bluetooth USB chip as is recommended by Kestrel. I found it new on ebay for $16 w/shipping.

So far I've gotten both pieces of software to talk to work completely with a Dell PP09S running XP w SP3 though it had some issues. I tried the Kensington software supplied with the USB plug in but I didn't get it to work. I rolled that back and plugged the Kensington chip into the computer and let the computer find software off the the net. That worked with the software drivers Microsoft downloaded.

Initally the database which has bullet data in the HKGunLoader program did not work. That turned out to be that i did not have any database program set up on the computer. I'm not sure what it actually needs but when I loaded Microsoft Access the database worked. I expect that Excel would work too but I don't know.

I also loaded the software on a 64bit Vista Toshiba Satellite laptop. That went smoother than the XP. Again, the bluetooth default software worked better than the disk provided by Kesnsington. I also tried the built-in bluetooth on my wifes HP Windows 7 laptop and it communicated ok, but I didn't load either of the above software packges.

I have not had the Kestrel crash or lock up. Maybe I haven't used it enough.

Kestrel good features:
An all in one weather station with wind velocity and direction and magnetic north corrected compass,measured and calculated air density and a integrated ballistic calculator which passes data without re-entering data manually.

I'll be using it with a Horus Falcon H37 scope which is nicely matched though it can be used with
Mil or MOA scopes with linear reticles or target knobs.

Kestrel bad features.
I can't read the screen without a magnifier (66 year old eyes) I'm using a 2.5x magnifier which flips up/down on my glasses.
The instruction sheet (and PDF) could be better. I had some initial trouble with the calibration of the compass and the concept of how the target direction, wind direction, and compass settings relate. It's not difficult just different from any compass I've used before.

Disappointments:
It's not something claimed by Horus or Kestrel, but the
the computer software ONLY transfers gun settings from and to
the Kestrel. It does not allow the control or operation or display of the Kestrel screen or buttons in the Horus atrag mode remotely from the PC. At least not that I've found or seen claimed. I was hoping I could put the Kestrel with it's wind vane on a tall tripod and operate it from the shooting location. The bluetooth has enough range. That's something which would be really nice as a future software upgrade. As it is one has to hold the kestrel AND INTO TO THE WIND off the ground far enough to get a workable reading. That's not at all convenient if you're shooting prone, but I don't know of any portable and available system which is better.

The weather program does allow recording data on a tripod/wind vane, downloading it and displaying it in linear graphic or tabular form. It can be controlled to the extent of triggering when to take the readings and download them. It will even do that at settable intervals and unattended with a built in timer.

I'll watch this thread on sniperhide. Maybe I can answer some questions. I'm not an expert but I think I understand the atrag software fairly well now. (I read the manual) and I've been using earlier Horus software and the grid reticle for a while.

I obtained my 4500NVHBTAN for $699 from http://myworld.ebay.com/weatherrepublicllc/?_trksid=p4340.l2559
They're an authorized Kestrel distributor with a 100% ebay rating. They shipped quickly with no hassles.

 

[21Bravo]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Have any of you received any additional info from the manufacturer on these issues?

Thanks!

 

[GTGunner]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

I'm glad I ran across this thread.....I have been looking to order a 4500NV with bluetooth for a few weeks now. I need the bluetooth feature to use with the Shooter app on my Motorola Droid.

With all the trouble you guys are reporting I will postpone purchasing any Kestrel product until they pony up and fix the problems you guys are experiencing. I hope others that are considering a Kestrel will do likewise. For what they are charging for these devices, problems should be the exception and not the rule. Vote with your wallets guys..........

 

[bnielsen]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hi Everyone,

This is Ben from technical support at Nielsen-Kellerman (Kestrel manufacturer). I just want to let you know that our engineers are currently working to remedy this issue. It appears to be software related and we believe we have narrowed down the cause of this issue, but we are in the process of testing firmware fixes as we speak. I will be happy to post again as updates become available to me. Please feel free to email me if you have any questions and I will do my best to help (or you can post here if it may help others - I will try to check this thread regularly).

Thanks very much!

-Ben

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hi Ben,

It might make sense for you to post the list of the Kestrel models and firmware versions that in your opinion have this problem. And of course please do post here when the update is ready.

Thanks!

P.S. It's good to see you here!

 

[GTGunner]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hi Ben!

Great to see you on here.....it speaks volumes that you are being a standup guy regarding the issues the folks are having with some of the Kestrels. It's good to hear that Nielsen-Kellerman is working to fix the s/w and firmware issues. Do keep us informed. I am in the market for a 4500NV w/BT but will wait until you report back that a fix is in place. I second mouse's comment above. Best wishes!

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hey Ben, its nice to see you joined the hide to help with the problems. Speaks to your care for the customers. Its much appreciated.


I have the 4500 NV and used it about 8-10 times over the course of 6 months. I went to turn it on last time I was out shooting and it would not turn on. I thought to myself dead batteries! I put new batteries in and still nothing. Is there a way to reset the unit, or what do I need to do to get it working again?? Again, its a pretty new unit, Only about 6-7 months from new and only used a handful of time. Just thought I would write here to help some others if they are experiencing the same issues.

I love the unit though, pretty complexed little thing, it helps my under par skills to say the least.

thanks, jake

 

[anthony_se]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Ben, or anyone else, has the "glitch" been corrected yet? I'm looking to buy one of these puppies, and, with the trade they've got going, my 4000 makes it affordable

 

[bnielsen]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hey everyone! Sorry I haven't replied sooner - I tried accessing this thread yesterday but I kept on getting an error for some reason.

Thanks Mouse, you're absolutely right. From what I understand from the engineers, this was a piece of code in Kestrels before the Bluetooth was introduced. However, when the Bluetooth code was added, it increased the likelihood of this behavior enough that a pattern began to emerge (hence the posts above!) I think I have received one unit that does not have Bluetooth that was claimed to exhibit this behavior (although I couldn't reproduce it), but several with Bluetooth. The models it has been observed in are the 4500BT, 4500NVBT, and 4500BT with Horus.

I believe that if the bug is not apparent within the first few weeks, you should be home free. Is this not accurate? The reason I ask is because not all units have this problem (clearly or it would be much more obvious) and, from what I gather from the people who have reported it is that it didn't start up after months of "bug-free" performance. It seems that the units that don't act this way continue to do so. Though, I'd like to get more input to see if that jives with everyone's experiences.

As of this afternoon we do have code updates available so anyone with an affected unit can send it in after obtaining an RA number from our website (https://www.nkportal.com/portal/portallogin.php). Just a side note, the RA form requires credit card info but code upgrades for this are done at no cost, so there is no need to worry about any charges to your card.

I will need to check with the Production Manager next week to determine when the new code was (or is going to be) implemented. I will let you know when I find out.

Thanks for the question JC, I'm all for answering several people's questions on a forum so it's a great place to ask in case other's have this issue too. It's ironic for me to apply that statement to your question because I'm not sure what would cause that. In cases where the display doesn't power up, I recommend 3 things:
1. Try a hard reset by removing the batteries, holding the power button for about 30 seconds, then reinserting the batteries and proceeding normally.
2. When attempting to power on the unit (and the display doesn't come on of course) try pressing the backlight button - does the backlight come on? This helps to indicate if it's simply a display issue or something associated with power to the PCB or the PCB itself.
3. Remove the batteries and look for signs of corrosion caused by leaking batteries. Generally speaking, you should see plenty of evidence on the batteries themselves. It may be hard to identify battery corrosion inside the unit so a flashlight helps with this.

I hope this helps, please don't hesitate send more questions my way! Thanks!

-Ben

 

[anthony_se]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Ben,

thanks a bunch for your post

If I understand you and others here correctly, the issue has to do with whether or not BT is on the unit. Does the "freeze" happen with non BT units? What real-time advantages accrue to using the BT option? I apologize for being late to this thread

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ben_Nielsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe that if the bug is not apparent within the first few weeks, you should be home free. Is this not accurate?</div></div>
I don't know - it would probably be accurate <span style="text-decoration: underline">if</span> the usage pattern is constant/consistent between the first few weeks and the rest of the unit lifetime.

In my case for example, the use is highly sporadic: more or less frequent short "bursts" of a few measurements, and a long session maybe once a year or so. From what others said here it seems that the problem manifests itself only during the longer sessions, not in the short runs like what I've been doing so far.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ben_Nielsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason I ask is because not all units have this problem (clearly or it would be much more obvious) and, from what I gather from the people who have reported it is that it didn't start up after months of "bug-free" performance. It seems that the units that don't act this way continue to do so. Though, I'd like to get more input to see if that jives with everyone's experiences.</div></div>
In my opinion, the problem manifestation probability is likely to be directly proportional to the length of continuous use (session length).

I'd like to know what your engineers find out.

 

[Petey]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Ben,

It might make sense for you to post the list of the Kestrel models and firmware versions that in your opinion have this problem. And of course please do post here when the update is ready.

Thanks!

P.S. It's good to see you here! </div></div>

I would like to know this as well. My 4500NV displays "Iss 4.60" when I start it up so I'm assuming this is the firmware version the unit is running. I'd like to know if the 'fix' updates the firmware version to a new revision.

 

[realbass1]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

tag

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Hey Ben, I tried the hard reset and everything works great now. Thanks a ton. Much appreacited.

 

[GTGunner]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Ben

Do you have any updates you can share with us regarding the fix to the problems reported with the 4500NV + BT models?

Thanks!

 

[GTGunner]

Re: Problems with Kestrel 4500NV w/Bluetooth

Crickets.....................................................