Fieldcraft productive way to practice ranging with scope??

[stradibarrius]

Advice on productive practice to range using scope. I have a great laser finder but want to learn and build confidence to range with scope.

 

[Gray Squirrel]

Are you talking about using the reticle and formula? Probably the best way is to go out to a range where there are targets out to significant distances. Get the size of the targets from the range staff (or measure them yourself if it can be done safely). Once you know the size of the targets, range them out making sure you are at the proper settings according to the scope manufacturer. Plug them into the formula and check your work utilizing the range finder.

If that's not an option and you have access to some open land, you can set up your own range and do the same thing.

There are some online simulators too that help you develop an eye for ranging with different reticles. Studying how objects look at different ranges will also help you develop an eye for range estimation.

 

[stradibarrius]

mil/mil, ffp I know the formulas but of course knowing the sizes of things. Should I take measurements of things like stop sign, fence post, fire hydrants etc and keep those in my data/dope book? As well as doing like Gray Sqiurrel suggested at the range and measure "things" to use for reference points?

 

[kraigWY]

Not far from the house about 2 miles is an abonded gravel pit on BLM land where I like to shoot. You can get well past 2000 yards safely.

I set out a target, then drive all over the area on a 4 wheeler practicing ranging from different locations. I have the target marked on my GPS so I check my estimations with the actual distance.

Like anything else, the more practice you get, the better the estimations.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

https://www.impactdatabooks.com/Mildot_Master_p/t-mm.htm

https://www.shooterready.com/

 

[Gray Squirrel]

mil/mil, ffp I know the formulas but of course knowing the sizes of things. Should I take measurements of things like stop sign, fence post, fire hydrants etc and keep those in my data/dope book? As well as doing like Gray Sqiurrel suggested at the range and measure "things" to use for reference points?

Yes, once you have a handle on using your scope for ranging, you can make a list in your data book of objects with standardized measurements that you may encounter (license plates in the U.S. for example are all 12"x6"). You can also make a ranging cheat sheet by plugging in what you would mil out the various objects (the license plate for example) at different ranges. Then you can just quickly look at your sheet instead of going through with the full equation. Street signs are also almost always standardized as well. Knowing a little bit of code for houses also reveal that many of our residential doors (non-custom) also have standardized measurements. I would obviously caution you about being visible in an urban setting pointing a "scary rifle" at different objects...

Objects like fence posts and other lumber are typically labeled as being standardized, but all have a certain degree of deviation from the dimensions on the labels. In the military, we measured out items on different military vehicles (different vehicle rims for example) since it doesn't get much more standardized and uniformity than the military.

 

[stradibarrius]

Yes, once you have a handle on using your scope for ranging, you can make a list in your data book of objects with standardized measurements that you may encounter (license plates in the U.S. for example are all 12"x6"). You can also make a ranging cheat sheet by plugging in what you would mil out the various objects (the license plate for example) at different ranges. Then you can just quickly look at your sheet instead of going through with the full equation. Street signs are also almost always standardized as well. Knowing a little bit of code for houses also reveal that many of our residential doors (non-custom) also have standardized measurements. I would obviously caution you about being visible in an urban setting pointing a "scary rifle" at different objects...

Objects like fence posts and other lumber are typically labeled as being standardized, but all have a certain degree of deviation from the dimensions on the labels. In the military, we measured out items on different military vehicles (different vehicle rims for example) since it doesn't get much more standardized and uniformity than the military.

Great tips Gray Squirrel...I have been very reluctant to get out with my gun and practice on public things like stop signs, mailboxes car tags. Your words of caution are noted. I don't want to wind up in the back of a Sheriffs car. One of my long range shooting books is "100+ Sniper Exercises" Many of these same ideas are mentioned there. Thanks for your help!!!! When you only have fixed distance ranges learning to shoot unknown distances is tough.

 

[stradibarrius]

Knowing the math an using the ret is night an day. First rule always range the biggest part of the target if at all possible.
Decide if you are going to enter sizes into you data book in inches or cm's.
Then make up known size poster board targets you can tape onto different colors backers. Your targets should be dull colors at first, this will teach you the percentage error of different lighting an color's. Place them at unknown to you distances, ret range them first then with your LRF or a map/google earth ect. You can place different colors (dull & bright) side by side to see how different colors will add to your error factor very quickly. Some colors are much worst that others to different people. The shape of the target an your ret will also effect how you lay the scope/weapon to range. With the FFP you can range on any power but you will quickly find one power setting is much better than others, as being steady to rock solid while ranging is the name of the game.
Everything said so far depending the std error % you can stand, will be based on cambering, target size an distance. Once you become attune to all colors an targets facing you square, start angling them on both plains away from you. Lastly start hiding different size targets in the woods w/o the perfect back-round.
The final thing I would do, make sure you enter into your data book the size of every shoulder weapon (an larger depending) you may have/want to range. People come in different sizes, most weapons or TO&E gear never change size. Range finders will not range everything, battery's do fail, maps get lost, trashed up, or never issued, but as long as you have the scope the distance can be quickly known.

Another great response! I'm not sure what you meant by "how you lay the scope/weapon" do you mean, lining up the cross hairs of the scope with the target because everything is not straight up and down? Forgive my ignorance but what is "ret"?

 

[stradibarrius]

Duh...I should have figured that out@

 

[stradibarrius]

[No message]

 

[oneshottwomiss]

This table gives dimensions of some common items. I'm sure a google search would turn up others giving different examples that may be more useful.

 

[shoobe01]

https://www.impactdatabooks.com/Mildot_Master_p/t-mm.htm

https://www.shooterready.com/

I agree that if you put in the time and fix your mistakes, Shooter Ready is good practice for those (or those times) you cannot get behind the gun usefully. Wish they had other than hunting situations. Even if rural, roads, power poles, etc. would be nice for practice. Urban/suburban would be awesome as well.

 

[Mike 556]

I'm just starting to use the mil ret for range. I've been practicing and fumbling along. The tips provided by Gunfighter and Gray Squirrel have been indispensable ! Thanx Guys.
Mike

 

[shoobe01]

One of the things that helped me long ago was to buy a cheap scope that had a ranging ret an just use it w/o being mounted on anything. As difficult as that is (holding still) you can practice most anywhere w/o drawing looks. Easy to find mil rets but moa are somewhat harder, but becoming more so theses days.

Good idea, may have to add that. And it reminded me the other thing I do is confirm what I think. I sometimes take my LRF on walks with the dog, etc. guess what a range is, check with the laser. It's helpful.

 

[shoobe01]

Gunfighter14e2's home is clearly bigger than mine

But I know at least one person who has enough land they have range cards for the various faces of their home.

 

[Dougie308]

mil/mil, ffp I know the formulas but of course knowing the sizes of things. Should I take measurements of things like stop sign, fence post, fire hydrants etc and keep those in my data/dope book? As well as doing like Gray Sqiurrel suggested at the range and measure "things" to use for reference points?

I have a Vortex monocular with a MRad reticle in it I can use for ranging practice. And as you suggested. I keep some laminated cards with the formulas and and sizes for a number of objects in the case. I have a laser rangefinder, but having the skills to use things without a battery in it doesn't hurt.

 

[stradibarrius]

That's what I really want. I have a LRF but I also want to learn the skill to range with out electronics.

 

[Cgbaugh]

https://www.impactdatabooks.com/Mildot_Master_p/t-mm.htm

https://www.shooterready.com/

I second shooter ready. great sim! easy to understand.

 

[Kopfjager1]

Shooter ready is a great tool. However, it's not a replacement. If you don't have access to long range with known distance targets and measurements, what you can do is create multiple IPSC style targets on Microsoft Word using different height and width. Use your minimum parallax distance as the constant for your formula and do reverse math to figure out the relative distance would be.

For example: 27 yards is the minimum parallax. A 18"x30" IPSC @ 530 yards would be 0.94 mRads x 1.57 mRads. 0.94 x 1.57 mRads @ 27 yards = 0.91" x 1.53". Set target at 27 yards and start ranging.

 

[HeavyAssault]

It all comes together when you have a good understanding of more than one factor. Your range finder is an awesome tool to learn/reinforce distance estimation, added to the learning of things that are "standardized" sizing. Study the reticle sub-tensions to know what/how to apply for your ranging.

Plenty of tools to use to "cheat" on how to range things. Some man made, others made by mother nature. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[LRRPF52]

The system we were taught in the Army required multiple formulae and turned into a homework project.

When I started working with European Snipers, they had a much simpler and more accurate method for mil relation formula that was one of those moments where you say, "Why didn't I think of that?"

They us mm for TGT dims, then divide by mils read = range in m. Too simple.

45cm wide silhouette or chest width of a man = 450mm.

450mm / 1 mil in scope = 450 meters

With that as a basis, I get a very quick idea of whether the TGT is within 450m or beyond 450m upon TGT detection even for chance contact, chance TGT with limited time exposure. If the chest is wider than 1 mil, I can use holds and make a quick shot with a mil hash reticle with a very high hit probability.

450 / .5 mils = 900m
450 / .6 mils = 750m
450 / .75 mils = 600m
450 / .8 mils = 563m
450 / .9 mils = 500m

For CONUS teaching civilian side, I use my own decimal yards equivalent since we deal in yard ranges, not meters.

For decimal yards, I use 36" as my = 1000 value since 36" is 1 mil at 1000yds. I just drop the zeros from the decimal yard constants.

24" = 666
18" = 500
12" = 333
10" = 278

So for an 18" TGT we use the 500 constant because 18" = 1/2 x 36" or .500 (then drop decimal)

500 / .5 = 1000yds
500 / .6 = 833yds
500 / .7 = 714yds
500 / .8 = 625yds
500 / .9 = 556yds
500 / 1 = 500yds

It's very fast and if you do regular mental math with it on the fly rather than relying on paper, you'll be that much more adept at quickly estimating range. In reality, 18" TGTs are pretty hard to accurately determine the range to once we start getting past 400yds unless you have superb glass, perfect contrast with the TGT and background, and no mirage, but this method really beats the equations with inch and meter conversions.

 

[DeftSystems]

The system we were taught in the Army required multiple formulae and turned into a homework project.

When I started working with European Snipers, they had a much simpler and more accurate method for mil relation formula that was one of those moments where you say, "Why didn't I think of that?"

They us mm for TGT dims, then divide by mils read = range in m. Too simple.

45cm wide silhouette or chest width of a man = 450mm.

450mm / 1 mil in scope = 450 meters

With that as a basis, I get a very quick idea of whether the TGT is within 450m or beyond 450m upon TGT detection even for chance contact, chance TGT with limited time exposure. If the chest is wider than 1 mil, I can use holds and make a quick shot with a mil hash reticle with a very high hit probability.

450 / .5 mils = 900m
450 / .6 mils = 750m
450 / .75 mils = 600m
450 / .8 mils = 563m
450 / .9 mils = 500m

For CONUS teaching civilian side, I use my own decimal yards equivalent since we deal in yard ranges, not meters.

For decimal yards, I use 36" as my = 1000 value since 36" is 1 mil at 1000yds. I just drop the zeros from the decimal yard constants.

24" = 666
18" = 500
12" = 333
10" = 278

So for an 18" TGT we use the 500 constant because 18" = 1/2 x 36" or .500 (then drop decimal)

500 / .5 = 1000yds
500 / .6 = 833yds
500 / .7 = 714yds
500 / .8 = 625yds
500 / .9 = 556yds
500 / 1 = 500yds

It's very fast and if you do regular mental math with it on the fly rather than relying on paper, you'll be that much more adept at quickly estimating range. In reality, 18" TGTs are pretty hard to accurately determine the range to once we start getting past 400yds unless you have superb glass, perfect contrast with the TGT and background, and no mirage, but this method really beats the equations with inch and meter conversions.

This is what I do. Just measure all of your "targets" in mm. Then, it's Range(m) = Target(mm) / measurement(mil).

You can also use 1600 for a small man height, 1800 for average, and 2000 for tall. That way you can do really quick minute of man math in your head. Of course, this depends on the country's nutrition and demographics. For some countries, 1800 is the tall number.

Take the scope off the gun and wander around with your LRF practicing. Try to look like a birdwatcher or something. I'd even be a touch nervous about doing that, but the reality is that most people are amazingly oblivious to what is going on around them.

Or you could build an urban hide site in your house and practice ranging the outside world if you somewhere with a view... Not that I advocate doing this for ranging practice. But, if you did, you would want to make absolutely sure to clear the weapon, and to do it in a darkened room set back from the window so as not to cause alarm.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

For yards simply measure and record your targets in yards rather than inches. Target size in yards x 1000 (just move the decimal 3 places right) / mils = range in yards.

18" = .5 yards
24" = .66 yards
36" = 1 yard

.66 yards x 1000 = 660 / 2 mils = 330 yards