Progressive Press

[HOGGHEAD]

I think I am going to pick up a new progressive press. I have narrowed it down to the Dillon 550B and the Hornady LNL. And I am leaning toward the Hornady.

Any comments about either press?? Tom.

 

[CGM]

Re: Progressive Press

I was in the same boat as you a while back, except I was considering the 650 and Hornady and ended up with the Hornady with no regrets and a thousand bullets. One thing that made it even better was the case feeder.

 

[Tims]

Re: Progressive Press

I have had a 550B for about 12 years. I load mostly .45acp and 9mm on it. It is a great press. I would reccommend the Dillon.

 

[Winny]

Re: Progressive Press

I am a fan of the 550B...but mine was a pain in the @ss to set up, once set it, runs great and the customer service is second to none.

 

[Falar]

Re: Progressive Press

The 550B is not a true progressive press as it needs to be manually indexed, so keep that in mind if you're comparing it to the LNL. I went with the XL650 for the auto-index feature and extra station.

 

[nmcclure]

Re: Progressive Press

with my lnl, mr. bulletfeeder, casefeeder, and stocked filled primer tubes, I am easily around 900-1000 rounds an hour. My lnl has given me and many others small problems with the primer seating, but it's a 2 min fix.

The two presses you mentioned are vastly different, a 650 and lnl is a better comparison.

when I bought my lnl, it came with 2000 free bullets, and at the time(early obama), 2000 bullets was worth about 150-200 dollars. So essentially for those that sold the bullets, the press was around 150.

 

[Iamironman]

Re: Progressive Press

The 650 is more of a comparable press to the Hornady LNL. That being said, I have 2 Hornady presses. The older generation Projector, and the new LNL. I am very happy with both of them. I bought the LNL with case feeder last year so I got the 1,000 bullet offer. This year they dropped it down to 500 free bullets. I've had the older Hornady for about 20 years now, so it wasn't just the free bullets that made me buy the newer Hornady. They make a good press and have superb customer service too (not that I have had to use it often).

 

[k2peaker]

Re: Progressive Press

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices.
Both are top-notch presses from top-notch companies -- excellent CS from both.

Do you like Hornady Red or Dillon Blue better?

I guess I like Dillon Blue better as I have three of their presses.
For LR rile, I use the 650 essentially like a 3-stage press as the variability of the powder measure is too great in my experience for LR, precision rifle (given the extruded powders). I use a ChargeMaster for powder throws (accurate within a tenth/grain, use manual priming (for the tactile feel)...

 

[ACK]

Re: Progressive Press

Never used the Hornady, I am a fan of the Dillon.
For the past ten years I have used a Dillon 550 for my pistol loads.

For rifles I size my brass on an RCBS Rockchucker followed by brass prep (polish, trim...) subsequently the Dillon is used for priming, powder drop bullet seating.

Varget is my primary rifle powder; it meters well with the Dillon.

Accuracy comparison between single loading (RCBS) and "hybrid" was not significant (to me)

Customer service: I wore out the plastic cam on the powder drop. I called Dillon and they provided replacement parts at no cost in less than a week.

 

[k2peaker]

Re: Progressive Press

Varget meters well with the dillon powder measure...
You must have the magic touch. I tried all the tweaks (anti-static sheets, tapping the powder measure frequently to get the settling, UniqueTek's special baffle, etc.) and I was still getting about .4-.5 gr. variability. Just with the extruded powders like Varget. Have had no problem with powders like Ramshot Tac.
I gave up and went to a ChargeMaster where I'm visually verifying each throw to .1 gr. for precision rifle.
Pistol? Who cares. Pull the handle.

Dillon's CS is absolutely great. As a three-press Dillon customer, multiple vibratory tumblers, and many other blue products, I've never had a bad CS experience with them. They always exceed my expectations. Have heard the same of Hornady.

 

[Falar]

Re: Progressive Press

My Dillon powder measure wouldnt meter Varget well at all either. 8/10 throws would be within .2 gr but then there would be a random one that was way out. I just put a funnel die there and dispense the charges with a Chargemaster now.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Progressive Press

I load all my F class ammo on a dillon 1050 but all the powder charges are thrown with an RCBS chargemaster as the dillon powder measure totaly suck A*& with varget. It slows down the process a bit but results are all that matters.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

Re: Progressive Press

The reason why I am comparing these two presses is because they are comparable in price. Not necessarily in features.

The Hornady has more features for the same money as the 550B. So I was just concerned about quality issues. I am sure both have great CS, so that is not an issue.

What I like about the Hornady is the shell plate moves itself, and it has extra stations for powder checking and separate crimp stage for revolver cartridges.

The press will be set up for one cartridge only(45 Colt). So changing dies is not a big concern. The plate on the Dillon does look a little easier to use(but not sure-why I asked). So I was just looking for overall quality differences. Thanks, Tom.

 

[clay_breaker]

Re: Progressive Press

If you are only going to load .45 colt on it, why not just get a square deal in .45 and save the cash. I bought one .45 ACP just for that reason. I keep rifle stuff set up on another press.

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

I too have an LNL and am happy with it. However, I just started loading for rifle, and am having problems with seating the LR primers. Three members on another board chimed in and said this press just doesn't do a good job seating these primers. Hornady said they never heard of the problem. Could you please explain your 2 min fix? BTW, the other board also reported similar problems with Dillon presses.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steel47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I too have an LNL and am happy with it. However, I just started loading for rifle, and am having problems with seating the LR primers. Three members on another board chimed in and said this press just doesn't do a good job seating these primers. Hornady said they never heard of the problem. Could you please explain your 2 min fix? BTW, the other board also reported similar problems with Dillon presses. </div></div>

Steel47
I have one and had the same problem and notified hornady so when they say they never herd of the problem (no comments)
but here is the fix I made and it work great
the trick is to give the press more leverage when seating the primer
put a .200 thick piece of HARD metal under the priming punch here is a photo showing it
it works ......glue it there with JB weld
it does not change anything on the indexing
hope this helps
Canuck
[img:center]

[/img]

 

[bohem]

Re: Progressive Press

I had a problem with my LNL not seating SR primers. After fiddling around with it I realized that the primer tongue was out of spec, it must have fallen off the assembly line for a stage and put back on later as it was just flat out missing features that were on the LR tongue.

Hornady fixed it by sending me 2 new ones for SR and one new one for LR just in case.

I like that metal button trick, Canuck. I haven't had an issue getting primers to seat, but it isn't as smooth as I'd like. I'll give that a whirl tonight.

ETA: HOGHEAD - if you really only will load 1 case through it then the Square Deal seems to make more sense, but for the relatively low increase in cost for a full featured press I would still probably get the LnL Press. Once you see how nice a progressive is for cranking out ammo or just size/decap/prime for match ammo the single starts starts to get relegated to fewer and fewer things.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

one thing I noticed is that the CCI primer are wider that winchester
the winchester seats with no effort and CCI you need more
measured them with a vernier and there is a few thousand difference

 

[bohem]

Re: Progressive Press

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: canuck4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one thing I noticed is that the CCI primer are wider that winchester
the winchester seats with no effort and CCI you need more
measured them with a vernier and there is a few thousand difference </div></div>

I haven't checked Win vs. CCI but I did see that Wolf SRmag were about 0.0015" larger on average than the CCI's that I had. No wonder they're such bastards to seat.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

so much for factory standard mmmmmmm

 

[VKC]

Re: Progressive Press

I have hornady lnl and did not have problems seating large rifle primers. I've used CCI BR2 without problems. I picked hornady over dillon because of die holders will allow you to chance out dies for different calibers and not loose you bullet seating length or depth of resize. Powder charger not very accurate for me, but use tubular powder so I think that is the reason.

 

[Iamironman]

Re: Progressive Press

Canuk, that is a neat trick, I'll have to try that. However the only time I have had trouble seating primers was with 223 brass that previously had a crimp on the primer. I blamed it on myself not removing the crimp good enough with a primer pocket reamer. On 308 brass certain head stamps were tighter in the primer pocket than others.

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

canuck,
I tried your trick but didn't find that it made any difference in required force on the handle, and off and on, I have real trouble getting the primer deep enough. When I look at my press, I believe the highest leverage is at the part of the stroke where the handle moves the most for a given small movement of the ram. That happens at the top of the stroke, where the dies do their job. The lowest leverage would be at the point where both joints at the bottom are approximately at the same height. On mine, that happens about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. So, at the bottom, there is better leverage, but not as good as at the top. Adding the piece of metal to my press causes primer seating to take place a little bit higher but still close to the bottom, and thus with less leverage (provided the force is applied perpendicularly to the handle in both cases). On the other hand, with the metal piece added, I don't fight the force of the spring nearly as much, and it is easier to push perpendicularly when sitting down. Bottom line: I don't notice the difference. I do notice that the primer punch has dug a little hole in the aluminum below, and in time an added piece of metal may be needed to operate it properly.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

Steel47
same here all my primer where not .005 below the case and some where even out a bit even with lot of force
when I put the steel disk in to me it was easier but some primer where still flush or out and had some miss fire at the range this is with CCI primer
what I did it to get a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer that goes on a drill
and then I saw some real difference still a bit hard to seat but easier but a least the seated 005 below case
was your disk .200 thick?
do you have the LNL latest model?
I stay with the CCI primer because with the winchester some of them just go in to easy..
keep me informe....
Canuck

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Progressive Press

Bought a used RL550B in the early 90's, and it's all I've ever had. I think the manual advance is a plus, because it allows each station to be used either progressively, or in precisely the same manner as a single stage press. The removable toolhead allows setups to be made and kept, Mine was the team press for about a dozen guys shooting 3-gun Bullseye and NRA Highpower National Match for about a half a decade. One hamhander managed to preak a priming system part. One phone call, and two days later, the replacment parts arrived. I had even asked for a spare and got it. No quibbles, no reluctance, no charge.

Downside, the Dillon powder measure has issues with stick powders and narrow case necks. I just pause at full stroke for an extra instant to give the powder ample time to fall. People say the primer seating process lacks 'feel', I never noticed any issues.

Greg

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

My disk was 0.1875" or 3/16", but the small difference should be inconsequential. I also got some CCI primers. Only tried a few, and they didn't go in any easier, maybe harder. Tomorrow I will receive an RCBS bench priming tool (the one using regular primer tubes, which I hope will be compatible with the Hornady ones),

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

try the winchester primers Steel47

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

Yes, Winchester primers is what I use for LR (with or without metal disc), except for the few CCI I tried when I had trouble with the Winchester. I have been thinking about a primer pocket reamer, but not yet. My next step is to try the RCBS bench priming machine. If that works ok, then I can be sure that there is not a component problem.

 

[fncannon]

Re: Progressive Press

I love my LNL. It hasn't munched a single case in over 4k assorted rounds (couldn't say that about the 550B). I did put a slice of drill rod underneath the priming punch because of the wear on the aluminum. For those other lazy bastidges out there, order replacement Autoprime primer trays from Lee and glue the upside down primer pickup tubes into them. I can fill a tube in fifteen seconds with those. Much easier than using the plastic tip one-at-a-time.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

don't know what to say on my LNL the winchester primer are so easy sometime I think I have enlarged primer pockets
remember when I had the problem and saw this fix on the net tried it with washer etc but they said the magical number is .200
tried it and much better
try putting a washer on your .1875 disk
if I understand correctly you are going to prime your cases with the RCBS priming machine than reload them on the LNL

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

I haven't made any decision about what to use. I am experimenting to determine what works best, and to make sure I don't have a component problem. If the RCBS works better than the LNL for priming large rifle, the LNL is still very convenient for the other steps in the reloading process. I may also try with exactly 0.200, but having a disc other than a very thin one brings another disadvantage: Normally, with no disc (or a very thin one), when one lets go of the handle, the shell plate rests at a height where the punch rests below the circle of the primer slide. This is good, because the circle prevents vibration from moving the primer sideways (my bench is not very solid), and it makes it easy to load just one primer while experimenting. But when I add a thick disc, the punch rises up through the circle, and there is no side support for the primer. This could be fixed by replacing the spring with a longer one, but that would make it a little harder to work the handle.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

steel47
just put a empty powder cap from a steel powder can beside the steel disk, the press plate wont go down preventing the punch from pushing you primer out
this way you will be able to load cases that are already primed even if the primer tube is full and even if the priming punch as a primer in it
the shell plate passes over the punch without touching it....this way you will be able to do your experiment

 

[lexluther]

Re: Progressive Press

I havent had any primer problems on my dillon, I would highly recommend the 650 over the 550, the extra station for a powder check is well worth the money.

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

Well here are my limited results so far with the RCBS bench priming tool "Automatic Priming Tool". Not one failure to seat so far (14 cases). And they seat deeper than any did on the LNL. This is not about more leverage. In fact, when I look at a primer that gave trouble on the LNL, but finally seated a little high but usable, I see that all the effort has deformed the primer. Not so after easy seating with the RCBS. Why would the primer refuse to go in deep on the LNL? The only explanation I can think of would be that it is not started straight into the pocket. Why would that happen? Well, on the LNL, the primer is located laterally by the "ring" portion of the slide. There is a recess on top of the ring, so the actual support is very shallow. If the primer strike surface is slightly convex, or there is a particle of dirt on it or on the punch, the primer may not be horizontal as it enters the pocket. Note: I have no problem with large pistol primers, which are the same shape as the LR but more shallow. When the primer is less deep, the consequences of misorientation would be less severe. On the RCBS the primer is surrounded by a deep sleeve which has a much better chance of orienting the primer correctly. BTW, for those not familiar with the device, you pull the handle twice: Once to move a primer from the pickup tube to the sleeved punch and once (after inserting a case) to seat the primer. Quite fast and convenient. You don't have to transfer primers from pickup tube to another tube on the press. There is no outer protective tube like the LNL has, but the chances of explosion should be lower when you don't have to deform the primer to get it low enough.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Progressive Press

I'm sure you'd be happy with either Dillon or Hornady.

I had a chance to use Dillon CS (was hit by flood - you can guess the rest). They were absolutely superb!

Oh, and using funnel die with electronic powder measure is nice!

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

HOGGHEAD:
Although I am experiencing difficulty with priming on the Hornady, I want to tell you what I see as its strengths:
* Lower initial cost, esp. with the free bullets deal.
* Automatic indexing.
* 5 stations.
* Wide spacing between the stations makes it easy to stick your hand in to remove or insert a case, and not just at the place where you normally do it.
* Lower cost to add calibers.
* Quicker caliber change.
* Dies store (with LNL bushing attached) in original die boxes. This takes much less space than storing them mounted to a plate.
* Whenever you want to use the press as a single station press, you just remove the dies you don't want with a simple twist of the hand. No need to remove dies from a plate and remount. With a Dillon you are much more likely to want one or more extra presses.
* The Hornady powder measure is not perfect, but it works fairly well. You can quickly change a plug to get a different pre-set/adjustable charge. (A more expensive plug also has micrometer adjustment. I don't think it is worth the extra money, because the scale is very lightly engraved and hard to read. Better to have more of the standard plugs.) The Dillon powder measure seems to have a somewhat worse reputation, and you will probably want to have one for each caliber.

Other negatives about the Hornady:
* The LNL bushings generally twist very easily. If you walk past the press and brush against the powder measure, it may twist to the unlocked position. It becomes a habit to give it a twist just to make sure it is in the normal position.
* Mine needed adjustment for proper indexing (easy).
* If you decide to add automatic case feed, that option is actually more expensive for Hornady.

Bottom line: The people who buy a Dillon often end up with multiple presses and lots of equipment on a large bench. The 650 is probably significantly faster than the LNL, and for convenience you can't beat having dedicated presses for different calibers. Hornady gives you a lot for a little money and allows you to work with many calibers on a small bench.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: Progressive Press

steel47
I second that all the way

 

[VKC]

Re: Progressive Press

Maybe I'm just not understanding primer seating problem with Hornady LNL because I never had a problem.

You may already know this but make sure disc holder is seated and clicked in rotation. I use a primer pocket uniformer device and make sure the pocket is completely clean and devout of residue. Make sure you are using the right primer seater punch for that type of primer. Seat the primer and then the case, push away instead of pull to seat primer.

I suspect the problem you are having may have to do with the disc shell holder being misaligned or the primer being slightly croaked when trying to seat the primer or the case primer pocket not being adequately prepped. If it isn't any of the above try calling Hornady or going to the store where to bought it and ask what is the problem or switch it out for one that works.

Just trying to help, good luck.

 

[steel47]

Re: Progressive Press

I frequently check that the shellplate is correctly indexed, so that is not the problem. The problem is only severe when I use large rifle primers. (Never tried small rifle, but no problem with small or large pistol.) I do use the large punch for the large primers.

I did get around to trying a steel disc of exactly 0.200" under the punch. It did not help.

A guy at Hornady said he could send a call tag for returning the press, but first he wanted me to try adjusting the indexing. Small adjustments to indexing made no difference, and they shouldn't, because indexing is finished long before the the shell plate gets down to where primer seating happens.

Another call to Hornady resulted in them sending me a new primer punch. That did not help either.

It seems obvious to me that the problem is primers enter the pocket at an angle rather than straight. Then the primer binds before it is fully seated, just like the powder measure rotor will bind unless you insert it in good alignment. What causes the primer punch to tilt? Here is my current theory: When I push the handle to seat a primer, the shellplate and subplate and priming feed all rotate a bit relative to the cast frame. This is unavoidable, since only the linkages at the bottom keep the big ram oriented in a certain direction, and they flex a bit, plus the joints have some play. When this happens, the bottom of the primer punch will rub sideways against the frame casting, causing the punch to tilt. The sleeve part of the punch assembly provides no guidance to prevent this. While holding the punch assembly in your hand, push sideways on the punch and it tilts freely. Here is how I see the problem with the punch mounted in the press. Remove all primers and cases. Shine a light so you can see it reflected from the top of the punch. Then press hard on the handle as if to seat a primer. I see the shell/subplates rotating together and at the same time the top of the punch tilts to the side.

 

[kingtiger88]

Re: Progressive Press

Dillon is what I have and its amazing !!

 

[AWP]

Re: Progressive Press

100% Dillon.