Progressive Relaoding

[Chiller]

In that a good number of comps have now started to incorporate a pistol stage in I am curious what others experience is as it relates to progressive presses. I just do not think I can get the through put on a single stage and would like to hear what others are using. What are the pros and cons, what are the pitfalls that I need to be aware of.

What say you all.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

Go Dillon. I like the 550 but you need to determine the "through put" as you describe it. The more automated, the faster...650 with feeders or the 1050 if you really need a lot. More calibers available for the 550.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

Get a hornady LnL, it's a 650 at a 550 price

 

[ChadJamesR]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I have used both the 650 and the LnL. The 650 can be set up to be faster but at a much higher cost. I now own the LnL and I'm completely happy with it. For the price, the LnL can't be beat.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

at what point do you start to add all the auto loading functions? Brass, bullets, etc?

 

[dvdt]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I think this is going to boil down to how much time do you have to spend reloading. For me personally, I learned to reload pistol on a single stage so I have my head around what to do. I still load rifle on a single stage but I'm done with pistol on a single stage.

I think progressives really make sense if you're interested in cranking out good quality ammo quickly. I don't mind the labor of love for precision rifle stuff, I imagine you don't either, but for pistol I want to load accurate loads and I want to load a lot of them.

As far as the red vs. blue kool aid, I went blue. Well, I will be going blue this week. My research and experience has all been with Dillon products so I can't compare the LnL vs Dillon.

I will say that for about $200, you can save yourself a significant amount of time with the Dillon XL 650. Check out some youtube videos, but the 650 has an "auto indexing" function and 1 extra station on the "tool head" and I think that's worth every penny.

In terms of safey, if you spend a bit more cash you can get the 650 and run what's called the powder check system. It is almost idiot proof in terms of preventing overcharges and having crap baked inside the case. I've seen dirt clods and cleaning media get clogged up real good. Once you drop some powder, the next station checks it and you hear the buzzer which tells you something is awfully wrong. I really think this feature + the auto indexing is worth $200. That said, the LnL has this feature as well I believe.

The case feeder is a must have once you start cranking ammo out. Assuming you would setup for say 9mm and .45 or maybe even plinking .223, you can load several hundred or likely thousand at one time. It will make your life so much easier. I would be willing to bet within an hour you could load 5-600 rounds without a problem.

Seriously, check out some youtube videos and look at the 650 with case feeder. If you want no BS reloading for pistol, it's a no brainer imho.

Hope my rant helped! btw - there's a groupbuy for Dillon going on right now!

 

[James in Wyoming]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

While I'm sure the Hornady is a good product, I have used two 550s for the last 15 or so years. A progressive for pistol is essential; if you want to get good, you have to shoot a lot, and that means reloading lots of quality ammunition. The Dillons are superb tools for this, just check with anyone you know who is a serious ipsc shooter. The 650s are faster and if setting up just for pistol I might go that route today, but case feeders are available for the 550s and they are much more versatile machines. I also use them for all 5.56 ammunition, to the tune of 5-6k per year, and all my .308 "practice" ammo, in about the same volume. There is some tweaking that has to be done to produce really good rifle ammo on these machines but the result is lots of rounds fairly quickly of very good quality ammo. I use Dillon loaded .308 for 800 and in with no problems. I do, however, use single stage for really precision applications, F-class, 1000 yard ammo, etc. Ultimate versatility I would go with a 550, or two. Pure high volume, e.g. Pistol only, the 650 is hard to beat. And Dillon's customer service is second to none.
Best,
James

 

[bohem]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I was pushing match grade 260 ammo through my LnL last night. I take the powder hopper off and lay a funnel in the 3rd station. As the shellplate comes up the empty case mouth picks up the funnel so that I can pour powder from the trickler pan into the funnel.

So for pistol ammo I do this, starting with fired brass:

Run it through Universal decap die on progressive, SS media tumble it.

To load with clean brass:

Sizer die, prime, flare, powder, bullet, crimp die. Out comes loaded round. No lube necessary anywhere since I'm using carbide dies and spotless brass.

For rifle bulk ammo:

Same deal except the cleaned cases need a light rub with Imperial Wax

For match rifle ammo:

Substitute powder hopper for funnel like I described above.

I did 140 rounds of 260 Ammo, starting from decapped/clean brass in 55 mins last night including setup and cleanup.

For pistol ammo like 9's, 40's, and 10's I get a comfortable 500rd/hr without any feeders, 600 if I really hustle.

Bulk 223's I do about 375-425 but the time for the powder to drop into the case reliably and the little bullets make the process go slower.

Match ammo is about 150rd/hour limited entirely by how quickly my dispenser can trickle.

 

[jmorris]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I had a LNL for around a year but it just didn’t make me happy enough to keep it around. I use bullet and case fed 650’s for my pistol and bullet and case fed 1050 for rifle. 100 rounds takes 3 min at a comfortable pace.

 

[jmorris]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

Click on the photo below for a video of 100 rounds in 2.5 min pace.

 

[scap99]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

Chiller, if you are leaning towards a Dillon, give Brian Enos a call.
brianenos.com/store/dillon
Brian will help you get the best setup for your needs.

If you are interested in getting into USPSA style shooting, his forum is "the" place to be, in my opinion.

I have used a 650 for the last 15 years for pistol, and the throughput is well worth the money spent.

 

[Hummerdawg]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

For pistol ammo 650 is the shiznit. I do about 4000 a month of 9major and 40 ammo. The casefeeder is a must for the 650,casefeeder on a 550 can be a little frustrating. Even with the carbide pistol dies I use the Hornady One Shot lube makes the press run a lot nicer and no need to tumble the one shot lube off the cases. Bulletfeeder is nice but not a have to have item you have two hands so not having bulletfeeder is not a slow down and is my place where I do a visual check of the powder level. I don't use the powder check die. Caliber changes only take about 5 minutes once you get the hang of it.

 

[insectguy]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

Chiller-- knowing the little I do about you, the Dillon 650 is the way to go. I bought one about 2 months ago, and have already loaded 4000 .40 and 1000 9mm. There's all kinds of neat gadgets out there as well, or you can design your own.

I haven't loaded .223 yet, but I have the stuff (I just haven't needed it yet).

 

[insectguy]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

BTW, I also looked at the 1050, but really could not justify an additional $1k. Sure, it primes on the downstroke, swages military crimps and, well, that's about it.

For me, I spent the other $1k on reloading components.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I don't have a lot of money, but my time is worth more to me than money.

I bought a used Dillon RL550B in the early 1990's and the amount of time it's saved me, just for handgun loads (and I haven't shot handgun in at least a dozen years), has probably paid for it many times over.

A 650 at a 550 price isn't a bargain, IMHO. I like the 550 a lot more.

Greg

 

[johndoe]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Click on the photo below for a video of 100 rounds in 2.5 min pace.

</div></div>

impressive!

 

[hill billy]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I can consistently load at 100 rounds every 4-5 minutes, which works out to 1000-1200 rounds an hour with fiddling around. I load about 100k a year. Get a 650.

 

[fncannon]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I don't have any experience with a 650, but I ditched my 550 after loading on a LnL AP. Caliber changes are faster and cheaper on the AP. The powder measure on an AP is better, and the 550 munched too many precious cases. The AP hasn't munched one in 5K rounds (yet. Choose whichever koolaid you prefer.

 

[300ATT]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I have loaded 20+ thousand pistol rounds and 20+ rifle rounds (.17, .204 Ruger,.223. 22-250, .243, .308) on a Dillon 650. It is a great press. Very versatile but calibar changes are a pain. So if you are going to load "millions" of the same caliber then consider the Dillon 1050.

 

[awp762]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I use the Dillon 650 with great results. I can't compare other models but the quick change tool heads are a must for me. I have 4 tool heads setup. Changeover only takes 5 min or less between the different calibers. I don't have much time for reloading so quick easy setup & productivity rates ( not cyclic rates) are a must for me. I only use this for pistol rounds. I use a single stage for rifle.

 

[Shrike]

Re: Progressive Relaoding

I have the Dillon 550B and love it! I can reload around 300-350 rnds/hr without any case/bullet feeder. I didn't have the money to get the 650 at the time. Although I wish I had one, I am very satisfied with the 550B. Caliber change is no problem if you have a few extra toolheads. You can even splurge a little more and get different powder dispensers that you leave set up for "pet loads". The only thing that takes a little extra time is swapping between large and small pistol primers....epecially if you have primers left in the machine.

I still load rifle single stage and weigh every charge, but that process is too time consuming and simply unnecessary for handgun shooting.

I use carbide dies on the Dillon and, IMO, that is the biggest time saver of all. No lube, no cleaning after the rounds come out.