PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

[Mattrmvpd]

Ok... some of you know how I am ... I have gotten used to my current weapons.. and now just tweaking things as I go. Much like the trigger on my DPMS .308. But there are NO realy changes or additions in the future to any of my current weapons. They are all setup the way I feel comfortable with.

Sooo... with OCD and boredom kicking in, I am going to plan out my next build.

It will consist of (2) rifles.

1. - .308
2. - .223

Both will be based off a Remington 700 (PSS or 5R).

And BOTH will be a barrel length of 9 - 10"

Stock - Manners Folding or something VERY similar.

Both will be scoped... but I am NOT thinking that far off yet.

Yes... it will be short. My goal is to use both as DEDICATED suppressed rifles. Sooo 2 suppressors will be ordered in time as well. No need to jump the gun on that yet..

Question:

What are the accuracy - velocities and thoughts of these platforms.

I am going to TRY and keep the cost LOW... I know that it all sounds expensive... but I honestly believe with some located donor actions... or just barreled actions that show up here for sale there are chances to get this in a budget build.

Let me know what you guys think... this is ALL just in the planning phase as I am staring to look for barreled actions or a complete rifle that is cheap.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I am also looking for those that have SBR bolt actions. All of your info / experience would be greatly appreciated. What type of accuracy etc..


Also side note that I am thinking of... Has ANYONE ever taken a factory stock such as a PSS or HS Precision style and attempted to make it a FOLDING STOCK???

It doesnt appear that it would be that difficult to pull off.... but just wondering if anyone has tried it.

Matt.

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I'm not sure if these are serious questions or if you're trying to bait us?

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Its real...all real.

Heres my end goal:

I was chatting with fellow officers...some from my agency and some from others. We got to mentioning our rifles and a few were talking about their dept issued bolt guns. All had the same complaint as to them being long and heavy (22 - 24" barrels).

After seeing pics here and on other pages, I got to thinking that there was NO reason they need to be that long. We as LEO are confined to small vehicles for the most part or operating in small areas. Forexample, after loading the trunk of a crown vic or charger with all the computer pull out trays, spare tire, med kits, go bags etc... there is really NO room left in the trunk. That and getting rear ended is NOT unheard of and I for one would HATE to know my precision rifle was in the back during that.

Soooo long story short.. I want to try out a FULL blown .308 with SHORT barrel on a bolt rifle. I dont have a ton of money and neither do the departments around here. But... I like my tools and it would serve a purpose as a used deployed rifle.

I have a HIGHLY reputable builder that will do the cutting and threading for next to nothing.

The cost will be locating a barreled action...donor rifle... and then the stock setup.

Thats why I was inquiring about the HS Stock or PSS Stock... if there was a way to add the hinge system similar to MANNERS Folding stock to help cut down cost.

I could see a platform like Manners shows on their web page as a VERY useful tool but cost become a massive issue when looking at FULL custom builds.

Thats my reason for a used LTR/PSS/5R setup to start the process.

Matt.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I think one of the most important issues you probably want to think through before going with such short pipes, particularly in the .308, is what type of a load do you plan on using? A 16"-18" barrel is one thing, but I'm wondering how drastically going that much shorter will affect performance without using a much faster burning powder than is normally available in commercial ammo. If it turns out that obtaining appropriate ammo that will perform out of such short barrels is problematic, that would make the whole idea unpractical IMO, so I would try to find out what issues that would entail before going the whole 9 yds. I used to own two Sig 556 pistols with 10.25" barrels and I can tell you from experience that performance with various factory ammo was pretty poor out of those short barrels.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

gstaylorg,

That is one of my BIG CONCERNS. Thats why I am hoping some guys on here that are running short barrles will chime in.

I have seen SEVERAL .300 uppers done short... but NOT a .308 that I can recall. I DONT believe the .223 will be an issue as I have run a 7.5" upper on an AR for years and its actually VERY accurate.

I am really wanting to stay away from RELOADING on this one. I want it to be able to run on its own with FACTORY ammo as that would be a requirement for me to use it for work.

If it doesnt get off the ground due to it NOT being viable as a usable platform then so be it... but I am willing to try if it can be done..

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

larue obr or lwrc repr, why does it need to be a bolt gun if it's short range anyway?

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

OV3RC,

Mainly the cost... For me its just tooo expensive to look in the gas gun arena. I currently have a CMMG MK3 (308) and while I got a deal on it... I could do an entire build on a Rem 700 platform for the same price.

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Two concerns I would have are the powder not completely burning in a 9"-10" barrel along with twist rate. Taking a SWAG, I'd think you'd need at least a 1:10 twist on a barrel with a tight bore when going that short.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Merlin,

I was leaning that way. Something like a USED 700 Tactical SPS/AAC... that comes factory with the 1-10.

I talked to the guys as MANNERS just a bit ago and asked about the picture they have with the folder. Its a .300 black out and is actually 13" barrel. Soo if I had to.. I would keep it at 11 -12" MAX length. I would love the 9" as its much more compact but I would go the 12" to help burn rate and stabalization.

Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Ohh and to add.

The guys and girl (Receptionist) at MANNERS STOCKS were awesome! I told them about this idea... and looking at one of their stocks. They and the actual owner of the rifle on the web page were AWESOME to talk to a very helpfull.

Matt.

 

[bm11]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

The only issue I see thus far, is that if you also go the 223 route for a callout rifle, the performance of that round after any distance at all is poor, nevermind if a barrier is involved. A 10" 308 should be fine, I'd probably try to push a 155 as fast as I could.

 

[lw8]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

The can on a 10 inch 308 is going to get eroded to crap in short order....if it doesn't get baffle strikes first.

 

[ddavis]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Think about how hard a 10" 308 would be on a suppressor. I doubt most manufacturers would warrant that. I would ask them about it. I have a 10" 300 BLK AR and am able to get 2150 fps with 110 grain V-max bullets. As efficient as it is with only 20 grains of powder, the muzzle blast is pretty bad. A short barrel bolt action would be cool and all, but I'd rethink doing it in 308. Go with something more efficient like one of the AR cartridges in a short action.
-Dan

 

[shane45]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Im no load expert but IIRC you will have a serious issue with unburnt powder? How about something in the middle, left? The 300Blk, being designed for short barrels would seem like an ideal compromise. It is designed to retain velocity out of short barrels whereas the others are not and need minimum barrel lengths to maintain usable velocity.

 

[Napsters]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Honestly go 14.7 pin and weld a surefire break on and call it a day. Unless you want a semi auto then I would go 12.5 inch 308. Why NFA something if you don't need too?

When will you need a bolt gun that short anyways.

 

[shane45]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I dont think a PD is bound in the same way by NFA items....

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

You all bring up good points.

I have a 18 PSS in .308... soo didnt want to go close to that length.

The .223 is just a play rifle. That build WILL HAPPEN regardless as I KNOW the 10" will be perfectly fine.

The .308 is just a BIG idea that I would LOVE to see get off the ground. But NOT at the cost of being completely useless.

Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Shane,

There not bound by NFA laws BUT this will be a personally owned weapon that "WOULD" be authorized for use... but it would have to work first

 

[Dogtown]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

SRS Covert + can = done

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

What about the SAVAGE STRIKER 308 handgun.... seems they are accurate and a short barrel....

Thats what kind of got me to thinking its possible.

 

[TheNewRoman]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

accuracy I don't see really being an issue if the barrel being used is good, but I think because of the velocity you may want a round better suited for short barrels. It seems 300 blk or whisper in the right round would prove more effective than 308 out of a 10 inch barrel. Also plus on the 300 rounds is they will be quieter to which is always a nice thing.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Roman,

I agree.... I am really wanting to stay .308 as I do load it... and my others are .308/.223

Just seemed easier since its my weapon.

I just WISHED there was some test out there on it.

 

[ptaylor]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I've had my 11" 223 for over 8 months now. Its my most used rifle. I've got a 7 twist and shoot the 80 amaxs (2500fps). Very deadly on game and I take it out to 600 yards on steel with boring regularity.

Before I sunk it in a Manners stock.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Ptaylor,

THANK YOU! That is one I am looking at doing. Same look just a folding Manners stock to make it compact for a case.

 

[George63]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I would say 12" for both and make the .223 an AR - carbine gas runs fine with a heavy buffer and BCG - mine is a pistol mostly used for burning up odds and ends .223 loads, only expensive part was the special buffer tube - since you can SBR this could be very reasonable to build

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

George,

I have a 7.5" built AR Pistol... and a Registeres SBR 10 AR15...

Just looking to goog off with a bolt... I get bored during the year and I have a builder that is willing to cut/thread/or fix anything I mess up...

I know SOMEONE out there has to have a short .308 bolt UNDER 14" ....

 

[bm11]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Wasn't the original AIAW Covert a shorty? Like 12"? Not sure the guys who own them shoot them much though, as they are a rare beast.

 

[BCP]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I would like to see a short barrel 308 bolt gun too. I have a deal going on an SPS tactical and want to chop the barrel off at 14.5" and pin a muzzle device for OAL.

 

[shane45]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

So.. I realise that sometimes a project is just fun for the sake of. But considering there may be real application at hand, I would guess that at these barrel lengths accuracy between a semi and a bolt is likely insignificant especially considering the intended ranges. Would it not make more sense to base a platform as described off a semi as in my mind there is an advantage to the semi for a follow up shot if needed.

 

[immcpat]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

You could just buy one 26" barrel blank cut it down to 10". If that doesn't work then use your original scrap and have a 16" barrel which we know does work.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Shane,

Yes.. the semi makes sense but I DO have a semi already just NOT willing to cut the barrel down that far and have to experiment with the gas system to get it to work.

I am quessing here but do have a feeling that a 10" version WILL work... It will obviously loose some velocity but even IF it retains some of it, it should be fine.

My 16" Rem 700 (308) is still bringing VERY impressive numbers and I know for a fact it hits to 800 yards (Farthest I have gone) with no issues at all.

I just CANT believe that 4-6" will just completely kill the round.

I look at guns like the Savage Striker 308 pistol and others that are similar. There are some VERY promising numbers on them and they are VERY light weight barrels.

Right now this is JUST the talking/planning phase as I am finishing a rifle by the end of July that I have been on. However THIS WILL take off at the first of August.

 

[shane45]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Understood

I look foward to seeing your experimentation

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I just hope it doesnt come out like FrankenSHIT

Worst case..it just gets rebarelled with a custom tube

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Ok.... Feelers are going out for a COMPLETE barreled action in .223/308

Looking for the SPS Tactical models HEAVY BARRELS....AAC 1-10 twist for the .308

Let me know if someone has one for sale for a good price.. DONT care about the stock... BUT EVERYTHING else has to be there including bottom metal.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

You might consider building off a Stevens/Savage action.

Manners will inlet the TF1/2 for Savage actions, CDI makes a high-quality DBM, actions can be hand for <$300 and GunShack currently has an ER Shaw 30cal 1:10 barrel group buy going on right now for $158.

Might get you where you're going at a lower out-of-pocket than a Remington-based build.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

BoilerUP,

I did NOT even THINK of that... I may owe you a beer or two.

Damn.. THANK YOU!

Gover over there to check them out.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

Alternately, consider the 11 Hog Hunter...its priced right (sub-$440 @ Buds), comes in 223 & 308 with 20" threaded barrel, has the Accutrigger and all you'd need to do is remove sights and replace the shitty tupperware stock.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

I will look at my store here and see what they have in the savage line..

It may be close to the same on a Rem 700 SPS Tact... I know I have seen some used ones fro right at 475-500..

 

[rideHPD]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

If you haven't found something for the .308 yet this has been sitting in the WTS for a little: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3427906#Post3427906

Would like to see this revived, and that action dropped in one of the MCS folders.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

REVIVED!

Updated info:

Ok... well... I am moving ahead... This is NO longer a talking session. Either this works... or it dies on the range trying.

The .308 barreled action will MOST likely be here next week as I was able to make a deal here with a Hide member (THANK YOU! and you know who you are).

Base for the .308 is:

Remington 700 LTR (308)
It will be cut back and we are planning to do 12"...

The STOCK options are ENDLESS... I like the Manners but need to find one in a better price range.... I will see if any of the Manners are available the closer we get.

** I am ALSO... thinking of taking a stock (HS Prec/ McMillan/ Bell Carlson) A2 type with the pistol grip and POSSIBLY see if its more afordable to creat a folder out of it... I am ONLY in the talking phase of that right now but I DONT see where it would be that difficult and MAY free me up some money for the rest of the project.

I will keep you all informed and will upload pics of a STEP BY STEP process as we get all of it in and start cutting it down.

***DISCLAIMER*** yes I know the laws... ATF/SBR... My builder is a C3 and manufacture soo it will reside with him and I get visitations to it anytime as he is just up the road from me.

Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.)

 

[tylerw02]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm128</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

** I am ALSO... thinking of taking a stock (HS Prec/ McMillan/ Bell Carlson) A2 type with the pistol grip and POSSIBLY see if its more afordable to creat a folder out of it... I am ONLY in the talking phase of that right now but I DONT see where it would be that difficult and MAY free me up some money for the rest of the project.
</div></div>

If the stock wasn't designed as a folder, cutting through the shell of an H-S or B&C <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: line-through">could</span></span> will damage the structural integrity of the stock. I would recommend going with a stock or chassis originally designed as a folder. Look toward an AICS or the new Manners folder if you must have a folder.

 

[justinknepper]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

McMillan makes astock called the BAF (bolt action folder) And it comes with the adapter that accepts any buffer tube style AR butt stocks. Theye can also fit a PRS-2 FN FAL style as well. I know they are a little expensive though.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

Sanoran,

I have not seen one of those.... I will take a look at it.

I kina figure that the stock WONT be cheap.... just exploring options.. Some of you know me... I WONT cut corners and go cheap.. Just thinking out loud sometimes.

I LIKE the AICS... just wanting something a tad smaller and less bulky..

Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

Sanoran,

ACUTALLY... I just got off the phone with McMillan. That BAF stock is NOT bad priced at all. I am looking at ordering one MOST likely... about a 4 month wait... but thats no biggie... as I am SURE the ATF paper work will take that long.

Matt.

 

[Texar2]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

I do not have nor want such a rifle but for load data you might have some luck on the encore and contender forums. Have fun. Post some pics.

 

[Inzaneriderz]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ptaylor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had my 11" 223 for over 8 months now. Its my most used rifle. I've got a 7 twist and shoot the 80 amaxs (2500fps). Very deadly on game and I take it out to 600 yards on steel with boring regularity.

Before I sunk it in a Manners stock.

</div></div>


Hmmm.... and the gears start turning.... looks like a blast to shoot!

 

[Shadowofjudgment]

Re: NEW PROJECT - Need Some Guidance - SBR Bolt Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SRS Covert + can = done

</div></div>

X2

 

[justinknepper]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

lol.. That is true the government never seems to be in a hurry when it comes to processing paperwork of that kind. I hope that stock works well for you. McMillan makes a great product so im sure it will.

Happy Shooting Matt.

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Re: PROJECT: SBR BOLT ACTION

Sanoran,

Thanks.

I know guys are talking about the SRS Covert.... but thats a TAD pricey... I think this project like the one pictured can be just as accurate for a lot less price.


I have emailed my builder and will here from him tomorrow most likely. Sooo hopefully by the END of next week I will have the cutting process started and a stock decided on.

Matt.