Projectile Choice for Defensive Loads?

[Franko]

I am putting together a large frame 6.5CM gas gun that will be used for fun at the range as well as the "civil unrest scenario". What kinds of projectiles should I be choosing for defensive ammo? I am thinking that I should go with a tough bullet like a bonded Gold Dot or something like a Nosler Partition. Am I on the right track or should I be considering something else?

Thanks in advance.

 

[simonp]

6.5 for civil unrest? Well it will do the job but Id think a small frame would be preferable.

Curious what others will say.

 

[reelserious]

barnes solid copper will do it all. TTSX for the win

 

[Franko]

6.5 for civil unrest? Well it will do the job but Id think a small frame would be preferable.

Curious what others will say.

I live in a state with magazine limits so figure if I can't have capacity I might as well have more horsepower. If mag limits in CA go away I can then go with green tips for a small frame or the heavier stuff I hope to build just in case it is called for.

 

[simonp]

I live in a state with magazine limits so figure if I can't have capacity I might as well have more horsepower. If mag limits in CA go away I can then go with green tips for a small frame or the heavier stuff I hope to build just in case it is called for.

Ah ok, didn't know you were a fellow resident of Hell, I mean Kali

 

[Franko]

Ah ok, didn't know you were a fellow resident of Hell, I mean Kali

The weather is nice and my aging parents are here so I'm stuck behind enemy lines for the foreseeable future.

 

[stello1001]

Can you find gold dots? Or some solid coppers?

 

[Franko]

Can you find gold dots? Or some solid coppers?

Still deciding on what to buy. I figure I need to buy at least two different projectiles just in case the first wont shoot in my gun.

 

[reelserious]

this is what you want

 

[lurch55]

As a defensive load I assume you mean human or are we talking dangerous game.
Seems to me those Barnes bullets while some of the finest hunting bullets made, have possibly too much penetration and will probably result in a pass through 6.5 cal hole with possibly no expansion.
You may want just a conventional exposed lead tipped bullet which works for " thin skinned,non dangerous game" which homosapiens are known as.
A medium weight for caliber that moves fast will probably work.
I watched 100's and 100's of 55grain FMJ's sail through those thin skinned non dangerous game with only little holes depending on location....and not a real impressive result. Follow up shots were usually enough. I will say I have seen much larger more powerful rounds also fail with single shots.
Led us to believe nothing is a guarantee and that two legged game high on some sort of speed can take a few.
We just used a few shots to be sure and then a few more....
Your results may vary but I have given you eye witnessed results and possibly the other replies also have eye witness accounts.
Shot placement is critical but sometimes you only get snap shots as these rats ran about.
Yeah I bailed out of the Golden State 30 years ago

this is what you want

 

[Franko]

As a defensive load I assume you mean human or are we talking dangerous game.
Seems to me those Barnes bullets while some of the finest hunting bullets made, have possibly too much penetration and will probably result in a pass through 6.5 cal hole with possibly no expansion.
You may want just a conventional exposed lead tipped bullet which works for " thin skinned,non dangerous game" which homosapiens are known as.
A medium weight for caliber that moves fast will probably work.
I watched 100's and 100's of 55grain FMJ's sail through those thin skinned non dangerous game with only little holes depending on location....and not a real impressive result. Follow up shots were usually enough. I will say I have seen much larger more powerful rounds also fail with single shots.
Led us to believe nothing is a guarantee and that two legged game high on some sort of speed can take a few.
We just used a few shots to be sure and then a few more....
Your results may vary but I have given you eye witnessed results and possibly the other replies also have eye witness accounts.
Shot placement is critical but sometimes you only get snap shots as these rats ran about.
Yeah I bailed out of the Golden State 30 years ago

The AR10 ammo I am looking to make is intended for dangerous game of the two legged variety. I pray that it never comes to this but if it does I want to be ready. I want a projectile that is tougher than an ELDM or TMK if I have to shoot through auto glass or something similar. I am thinking along the lines of a bonded bullet, a partition, or maybe a copper mono and want to be sure I am not missing something as this is about as far can be from my area of competence.

 

[st1650]

Obvious answer is gold dots or factory Fed Fusion.
Okay-ish BC
Not picky for seating depth, mostly accurate for whatever “civil unrest” engagement range would be.
Relatively inexpensive
Barrier blind

That being said I’d probably do a small frame AR if I was worried about a defensive scenario… 6.5 grendel would do just fine

 

[Franko]

Obvious answer is gold dots or factory Fed Fusion.
Okay-ish BC
Not picky for seating depth, mostly accurate for whatever “civil unrest” engagement range would be.
Relatively inexpensive
Barrier blind

That being said I’d probably do a small frame AR if I was worried about a defensive scenario… 6.5 grendel would do just fine

I figured to use a large frame as I am limited to 10 round mags in CA. Do you think that a 6.5 Grendel or 6 ARC would be a better choice than a 6.5 CM large frame in my situation?

 

[lurch55]

The AR10 ammo I am looking to make is intended for dangerous game of the two legged variety. I pray that it never comes to this but if it does I want to be ready. I want a projectile that is tougher than an ELDM or TMK if I have to shoot through auto glass or something similar. I am thinking along the lines of a bonded bullet, a partition, or maybe a copper mono and want to be sure I am not missing something as this is about as far can be from my area of competence.

Those are all good but for barrier penetration then we can head back to solid copper and the Barnes bullets are very accurate and will get the job done.
Just be sure any shot you take has nothing precious on the other side of the target as you would be surprised how easy it can be to get through a vehicle on both sides unless you hit reinforced framing.
Good luck and I absolutely hope you never need it.
I don't know whether you are rural or urban but if urban you will be surprised how many shots are less than a hundred yards.
Barnes are expensive and come in 50 ct.
The Hornady bullets are cheaper.
Either of these will handle your need.
You can develop a load with cheaper solid copper and then just reduce the load 10% you hit on and then go to Barnes for the final load although odds are the ELD will get er done as I seriously doubt you will ever need to worry about the need.
In fact I would be more interested in figuring out how to fix the holes in people than putting them in a target.
Good luck

 

[reelserious]

I would think that for the OP "specs" you would want something that will go right through a windshield at 500 yards and still get the job done. Kind of what I want in my SHTF rifle. The Barnes bullet should do the trick.

 

[wvfarrier]

Barnes TSX, Speer Gold Dots, Sierra Game Kings....all will work. However, I would also consider a varmint type projectile to eliminate the over penetration issue

 

[RTH1800]

Almost without exception any 6.5 bullet will be lethal with a decent hit.

 

[jetjock07]

I live in a state with magazine limits so figure if I can't have capacity I might as well have more horsepower. If mag limits in CA go away I can then go with green tips for a small frame or the heavier stuff I hope to build just in case it is called for.

If the SHTF, why worry about mag limits??? Moot point if it comes to that.

 

[RTH1800]

^^^^^^^
I typed that then deleted it.

 

[Franko]

If the SHTF, why worry about mag limits??? Moot point if it comes to that.

I want to be ready before the SHTF and obtaining those mags today comes with legal risks that I'm not willing to take. But you are probably right, the best bet is to probably sell the large frame, source a bunch of metal or pre-freedom week 30 round mags and a bunch of green tips and focus on other things.

 

[lurch55]

Or

I want to be ready before the SHTF and obtaining those mags today comes with legal risks that I'm not willing to take. But you are probably right, the best bet is to probably sell the large frame, source a bunch of metal or pre-freedom week 30 round mags and a bunch of green tips and focus on other things.

Or drive to a free state ( if you drive to the state next to me you can look at Z Idaho...lots of fun toys)
and buy it right from the owner
I can't say you should do it and I will say don't you dare....... but it's fun to surf that site anyway.
Take a vacation...see the sites get some souvenirs
Good luck...

 

[XLR308]

I live in a state with magazine limits so figure if I can't have capacity I might as well have more horsepower. If mag limits in CA go away I can then go with green tips for a small frame or the heavier stuff I hope to build just in case it is called for.

If I were you I wouldn't compromise myself with unconstitutional laws, criminals don't give a shit one way or the other.
If I had to become a criminal to save my family or myself I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[lurch55]

If I were you I wouldn't compromise myself with unconstitutional laws, criminals don't give a shit one way or the other.
If I had to become a criminal to save my family or myself I won't lose any sleep over it.

My thoughts exactly....no one needs to know your business and as f'ed up as California is they don't have the manpower to follow everyone...they are too busy with Newsoms homeless crisis and hate speech....but it admirable that you want to stay on the straight and narrow but like the man just said, you do what you gotta for your family especially when their laws are unconstitutional...

 

[db2000]

I live in a state with magazine limits so figure if I can't have capacity I might as well have more horsepower. If mag limits in CA go away I can then go with green tips for a small frame or the heavier stuff I hope to build just in case it is called for.

If it’s “civil unrest” and you’re depending on an AR platform, I’d hope you’d say fuck capacity limits

 

[lurch55]

My thoughts exactly....no one needs to know your business and as f'ed up as California is they don't have the manpower to follow everyone...they are too busy with Newsoms homeless crisis and hate speech....but it admirable that you want to stay on the straight and narrow but like the man just said, you do what you gotta for your family especially when their laws are unconstitutional...

I want to add if your aim is shtf, may I suggest that you go with a .308.
I know all about the 6.5 creed but realistically ammo or reloading supplies favor a 30 caliber like 308 or 30-06...
I just picked up some Sub X 190 grain projectiles that I will be shooting subsonic through my bolt and semi.
10 grains of Benchmark or Titegroup will get you just a 1000 fps...no recoil and the best part is these new bullets will expand fully at 900 fps....that's insane....I have an adjustable gas system and I can just open it up and it won't cycle.
Anyway you don't have to fear all the people saying 6.5 recoils less...yeah well handloading the 308 will give you everything you need and versatile choices.
I am able to reach 800 yards....eight football fields .I don't think you will ever take a shot that far in public...
Anyway I just wanted to give you an option.
Don't be depressed living there... just prepare

 

[db2000]

I want to add if your aim is shtf, may I suggest that you go with a .308.
I know all about the 6.5 creed but realistically ammo or reloading supplies favor a 30 caliber like 308 or 30-06...
I just picked up some Sub X 190 grain projectiles that I will be shooting subsonic through my bolt and semi.
10 grains of Benchmark or Titegroup will get you just a 1000 fps...no recoil and the best part is these new bullets will expand fully at 900 fps....that's insane....I have an adjustable gas system and I can just open it up and it won't cycle.
Anyway you don't have to fear all the people saying 6.5 recoils less...yeah well handloading the 308 will give you everything you need and versatile choices.
I am able to reach 800 yards....eight football fields .I don't think you will ever take a shot that far in public...
Anyway I just wanted to give you an option.
Don't be depressed living there... just prepare

They make 225 Sub-X you can easily size down to .308 from .310ish with Lee sizer. Just fyi.

 

[st1650]

They make 225 Sub-X you can easily size down to .308 from .310ish with Lee sizer. Just fyi.

255 gr but you’d probably need 10tw or most likely faster to stabilize

 

[Chicory01]

barnes solid copper will do it all. TTSX for the win

What's the deal with the copper fouling regarding TSX? I've heard after 20 or so rounds the barrel fouls immensely and causes wild accuracy issues.

 

[Franko]

If it’s “civil unrest” and you’re depending on an AR platform, I’d hope you’d say fuck capacity limits

If it gets to that point I don't, but I'm trying to stay legal prior to that because nothing gives Democrats more pleasure than fucking over normal gun owners. They stay away from criminals because those knuckleheads might actually shoot back...

 

[db2000]

255 gr but you’d probably need 10tw or most likely faster to stabilize

I’d think so. My 308 is 1:10 and 300 blk is 1:8

 

[lurch55]

If it gets to that point I don't, but I'm trying to stay legal prior to that because nothing gives Democrats more pleasure than fucking over normal gun owners. They stay away from criminals because those knuckleheads might actually shoot back...

Well..... maybe consider a lever action or better yet a M1 Garand.
You can't fault the M1 and it is legal down there.
Hits like a freight train.
And almost every young man of every body type learned how to shoot it well. 30-06 reloading components are available.

 

[reelserious]

What's the deal with the copper fouling regarding TSX? I've heard after 20 or so rounds the barrel fouls immensely and causes wild accuracy issues.

I have never experienced this. I believe the bands cut in the bullet take care of any issues.

 

[XLR308]

I have never experienced this. I believe the bands cut in the bullet take care of any issues.

Possible issue with a barrel that has a rough fire cracked throat but would be equally rough if not worse on cup and core bullets.
Never had an issue running Barnes either except for the fliers that will drive you nuts.