Proof AR10 6.5 Creedmoor stuck case

[Billiam1211]

So I have an AR10 that I built with a Proof Research 24-inch 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. I have about 450 rounds down the barrel and accuracy has been stellar, however over the course of those 450 rounds I've had 3 instances of a case getting stuck in the chamber. Accuracy has been awesome, with this barrel my AR10 can hang with my bolt guns, but the reliability issue really kinda drags down the performance.

I'm currently using Hornady Brass that was initially fired in my bolt gun a few times, full-length sizing it, bumping the should back 0.005, and shooting a light/medium load.

Is this likely a situation where I just need new brass that is specifically for the AR10 or has anyone else experienced tight chambers on their Proof barrels?

 

[wvfarrier]

Is it possible there is a rough spot in the chamber?

 

[Flyingbullseye]

You ever trim your brass?

 

[SD Carpenter]

I fought with my ar10 with proof for over a year, customer service wouldn't respond etc. I got a JP and a craddock since then that run flawless. $450 pre-fit ar10 barrel is too good to be true sometimes.
It did shoot great though I won't take that away from them. But if a gas gun can't run reliably it's trash.

 

[Billiam1211]

I just checked the chamber and it looks pristine still.

Brass is regularly trimmed as well.

I already had a run in with Proof’s customer service.. this barrel wouldn’t cycle when I first got it. They told me to get rid of my JP LMOS and SCS I ended up opening up the gas port with a reamer. Barrel shot tiny groups after that. Since then I’ve had 3 stuck cases intermittently that I’ve had to tap out with a cleaning rod. Think I’m going to try some new brass or another small base die and see what happens

 

[msgriff]

I would also check out the bolt. specifically the extractor/extractor springs. Might help to post pics of the case bases, especially the ones which were stuck.

 

[B Man]

What about your extractor? How does it look like it is gripping the brass? I had this problem with federal brass but not Hornady in a 308 ar before, replaced the extractor with a JP enhanced and it ate everything I fed it after. Literally over 1000 rds and not one stuck case after.

 

[Billiam1211]

Well I think I figured it out, but I need to go to the range to confirm. As per usual, it's it comes down to me dropping the ball on reloading practices. I typically small base size on my gas guns, but this last time forgot to run them through the SB die. After measuring a few pieces of brass from the batch in question and comparing to a few pieces that were ran through the SB sizing die, there was about 2-3 thousandths difference. Guessing this is it.. Having twin 15-month olds at home, IF I can make it to the range which is rare these days, reloading is always last minute and rushed. I think I'll be making a physical reloading checklist so I can track what's been done to each batch that's been started.

 

[45-90]

Resize your brass with a smaller body die...I had similar trouble with one 308...but had 6 308 dies. So I resized the case with one, then another, then about the 4th die a lot more resistance, it happened to be a Hornady FL sizing die, which I didn't particularly like, (like their seating die) and it was a perfect fit for this 308 chamber, no stuck cartridges. They can still get stuck with a SB die, need the whole body smaller in my case... Also tried a Redding body die, for consistent shoulder bump, after resizing with the Hornady FL die.
Not all dies and chambers match up well...grab a few friends 6.5 Creedmoor dies and try them...don't forget to try a Hornaday FL die,...it worked for me. As slight spring back of brass after sizing and slight inconsistency of spring back leaves a taper in the cartridge and the taper in a snug chamber a perfect snug fit... that really grabs the cartridge case. Like a machine tool spindle taper...

 

[FALex]

@bigjake83 this dude's issue sound familiar? LOL!

@Billiam1211 you absolutely, 110%, need to get separate brass for your gas gun. I just ran into this issue with my newly-barreled JP. I have owned bolt guns and gas guns where I could run brass between both of them, but on this new CLE barrel, I cannot. The chamber is just too tight (not a bad thing) when compared to my bolt.

 

[bigjake83]

@bigjake83 this dude's issue sound familiar? LOL!

@Billiam1211 you absolutely, 110%, need to get separate brass for your gas gun. I just ran into this issue with my newly-barreled JP. I have owned bolt guns and gas guns where I could run brass between both of them, but on this new CLE barrel, I cannot. The chamber is just too tight (not a bad thing) when compared to my bolt.

Yeah as soon as I read his OP I knew what it was.

 

[Billiam1211]

new brass it is then I think I’m going to pick up a new FL and small base die and maybe try Starline 6.5 Creedmoor brass for the gas gun.

 

[Billiam1211]

Redding SB die and a bag of shiny new brass is in the mail

 

[mettee]

What does the brass look like after firing? How are the primers?

 

[Billiam1211]

Brass usually looks fine. Sometimes the necks get dinged up. HOWEVER stuck cases always look mangled, kinda makes sense tho

 

[mettee]

I'm thinking it's the sizing and/or it's a tight chamber?

I know you said you bumped them back 5 though, any idea what that is compared to a factory sized lapua case? Or any factory sized 6.5 creed case...

I have the sac comparator, and I measured fired cases, resized ones, and factory fresh ones. See where you land with your sizing.

 

[Billiam1211]

I'm thinking it's the sizing and/or it's a tight chamber?

I know you said you bumped them back 5 though, any idea what that is compared to a factory sized lapua case? Or any factory sized 6.5 creed case...

I have the sac comparator, and I measured fired cases, resized ones, and factory fresh ones. See where you land with your sizing.

I’m fairly certain I just need to small base size. On this batch I’m almost certain that I forgot to run it through the SB die because I was in a hurry and tired

 

[mettee]

I just measured a few different fired cases. SAC comparator.

Fired cases:

Hornady - 1.5420
Peterson - 1.5435 - I do not have any of these left factory sized.
Lapua - 1.5420

Factory sizing:

Hornady - 1.5390
Prime - 1.5400
Lapua - 1.5390

My sized case:

Mine - 1.5400 to 1.5390

Buddies pet load:

Buddies: 1.5300

I guess I'm trying to understand you bumping .005. Comparatively to what I'm measuring that's a lot. I'm shooting 260. Can you put your sized case in the chamber and have it tight, but still fall out?

 

[msgriff]

I just measured a few different fired cases. SAC comparator.

Fired cases:

Hornady - 1.5420
Peterson - 1.5435 - I do not have any of these left factory sized.
Lapua - 1.5420

Factory sizing:

Hornady - 1.5390
Prime - 1.5400
Lapua - 1.5390

My sized case:

Mine - 1.5400 to 1.5390

Buddies pet load:

Buddies: 1.5300

I guess I'm trying to understand you bumping .005. Comparatively to what I'm measuring that's a lot. I'm shooting 260. Can you put your sized case in the chamber and have it tight, but still fall out?

This image is for .308W, but small base dies form smaller body diameters.

 

[mettee]

I'm just more curious than anything. What causes what and how to solve issues.

 

[Billiam1211]

My fired cases are 1.532”
Sized cases are 1.527-528

I used to bump shoulders .002 but every once in a while in my bolt gun would have a hard bolt close so I just started bumping everything a couple thousandths more for reliability. Doesn’t factory ammo have a pretty huge shoulder bump? It’s the same idea

 

[Billiam1211]

Went to the range today and ran 50 rounds through the AR10 without a hitch. It was definitely the SB die. Turned the gas block down a few ticks and she ran smooth.

 

[45-90]

I just checked the chamber and it looks pristine still.

Brass is regularly trimmed as well.

I already had a run in with Proof’s customer service.. this barrel wouldn’t cycle when I first got it. They told me to get rid of my JP LMOS and SCS I ended up opening up the gas port with a reamer. Barrel shot tiny groups after that. Since then I’ve had 3 stuck cases intermittently that I’ve had to tap out with a cleaning rod. Think I’m going to try some new brass or another small base die and see what happens

Maybe the people at Proof were right... opening up the gas port can be a problem...if its too much, port pressure still too high, extractor slipping over the rim, even bending, or tearing it.
I don't use those expensive fancy name bran bolt carriers. I heard of failures with them quite often...and many are made in the same factory, just put on a logo and double the price.
Just get the high pressure, (small firing pin), dual ejector Toolcraft bolt carrier.
Works great...with any brass. I shoot 308 Proof barrel and they are capable of .3 and .4 5 shot groups with LC brass.
And I shoot a variety of loads and lots of high pressure loads.
I have several Proof barrels all are very accurate, no issues ...so I haven't had to deal with customer service.

 

[Billiam1211]

Maybe the people at Proof were right... opening up the gas port can be a problem...if its too much, port pressure still too high, extractor slipping over the rim, even bending, or tearing it.
I don't use those expensive fancy name bran bolt carriers. I heard of failures with them quite often...and many are made in the same factory, just put on a logo and double the price.
Just get the high pressure, (small firing pin), dual ejector Toolcraft bolt carrier.
Works great...with any brass. I shoot 308 Proof barrel and they are capable of .3 and .4 5 shot groups with LC brass.
And I shoot a variety of loads and lots of high pressure loads.
I have several Proof barrels all are very accurate, no issues ...so I haven't had to deal with customer service.

In one of my older posts I actually mentioned that I did try a few other BCGs including a ToolCraft and a Rubber City with no change in performance. Both bolts are full mass. The toolcraft is an extra, and the Rubber City typically shoots with my .308 upper. It's been a while now and my Proof barrel has been a hammer. I honestly think the barrel was a lemon from the factory, which is ok. It happens and wouldn't be a big deal but I was annoyed at how Proof kinda snubbed me. When I reached out I told them that I tried 3 different BCGs, had the gas block wide open, aligned the port using a borescope, and would still get short stroking and failure to lock back. Not to mention I then sent it off to River City Rifles, and Andy confirmed the port was likely undersized. Their response at that point was basically to tell me to scrap my entire upper and start over. I have a few Proof barrels and they all shoot bug-holes, but that was a less than ideal service experience.

 

[45-90]

In one of my older posts I actually mentioned that I did try a few other BCGs including a ToolCraft and a Rubber City with no change in performance. Both bolts are full mass. The toolcraft is an extra, and the Rubber City typically shoots with my .308 upper. It's been a while now and my Proof barrel has been a hammer. I honestly think the barrel was a lemon from the factory, which is ok. It happens and wouldn't be a big deal but I was annoyed at how Proof kinda snubbed me. When I reached out I told them that I tried 3 different BCGs, had the gas block wide open, aligned the port using a borescope, and would still get short stroking and failure to lock back. Not to mention I then sent it off to River City Rifles, and Andy confirmed the port was likely undersized. Their response at that point was basically to tell me to scrap my entire upper and start over. I have a few Proof barrels and they all shoot bug-holes, but that was a less than ideal service experience.

I like the Proof barrels, and they have been very accurate.
Too bad some people representing the companies do not take the customer seriously.
I've had it happen from other reputable companies, where you feel or are snubbed for questioning the quality or have a problem with there products.
Twice I got a different person rather than the first person who helped(? )me, and the whole experience was totally different, from snubbed to total customer service from the same company, a few days apart.
The people can make or break a company reputation.
Mostly I just fix the problems myself and never send back a barrel unless it scopes out bad.
Here a 9mm AR barrel had to be rechambered as it was chambered at the factory with a worn chamber. I bought the chamber reamer from Brownells.
The barrel nut ID too small to fit over the barrel, had to be bored out!
And typical problems with even moderately priced barrels, and why it's important to have a bore scope.
Parts don't fit. Galled and torn threads, are all coming from today's manufacturers, especially when the got behind, in production.
SO, I just fix my guns myself...others can not do that. A shooting friend sent his new S&W revolver back twice, ...S&W says it's within there specs. I checked it out, it had way too much headspace, bulging cases and sticking in the chambers, clearly out of spec.
But he just finally accepted it the way it was, but doesn't shoot it.

 

[bigjake83]

I like the Proof barrels, and they have been very accurate.
Too bad some people representing the companies do not take the customer seriously.
I've had it happen from other reputable companies, where you feel or are snubbed for questioning the quality or have a problem with there products.
Twice I got a different person rather than the first person who helped(? )me, and the whole experience was totally different, from snubbed to total customer service from the same company, a few days apart.
The people can make or break a company reputation.
Mostly I just fix the problems myself and never send back a barrel unless it scopes out bad.
Here a 9mm AR barrel had to be rechambered as it was chambered at the factory with a worn chamber. I bought the chamber reamer from Brownells.
The barrel nut ID too small to fit over the barrel, had to be bored out!
And typical problems with even moderately priced barrels, and why it's important to have a bore scope.
Parts don't fit. Galled and torn threads, are all coming from today's manufacturers, especially when the got behind, in production.
SO, I just fix my guns myself...others can not do that. A shooting friend sent his new S&W revolver back twice, ...S&W says it's within there specs. I checked it out, it had way too much headspace, bulging cases and sticking in the chambers, clearly out of spec.
But he just finally accepted it the way it was, but doesn't shoot it.

Proof Research has been a shit show for awhile now, thier prices a so close to what you'd pay for a Custom Ordered Barrel, why roll the dice with them? When their barrels are done right, they're tac drivers but definitely not worth the risk of setting you back if you have to play the circle jerk game with thie CS. To be completely honest I was shocked when Rudy told us the LPR was going to run PR Barrels...

 

[45-90]

I order custom barrel blanks and complete them, for both AR and bolt guns.
But the ARs are usually something totally unavailable in the market of mostly twist rates, that I desire for a build. Odd ball or obsolete calibers.
These pictured are an examples a .338 6.5 twist .510 10 twist for odd projects, only I'm interested in. They were purchased at the same time, but took a bit longer than stated, to arrive.
I can do my own AR barrels, but like the option of using Proof Research, when it's standard caliber/ twist fare.
Sad to here their quality is slipping, and they seem indifferent about the situation.

It takes a bit more time with AR barrels, profiling the barrel, barrel extensions, gas block journals, determining the gas system, drilling the gas port, etc.