Proof Research .223 Wylde - Hunting bullet?

[Jayjay1]

Hey guys,
I´ve got a Proof Research carbon fiber 18" 1/8" barrel in .223 Wylde and am looking for a copper/brass/solid hunting bullet.

Does anyone have this barrel and can recommend me a precise solid bullet?
(I´ve tried some which I had on hands, 55gr TTSX, 55gr E-Tip, 70 TSx, but there was no "hell-yeah"-one from the get-go.)

 

[diggler1833]

Haven't personally seen good results with brass bullets (other than manufacturer claims on the internet), but that doesn't mean they don't exist somewhere.

I'd probably cut the difference between your 55 and 70gr Barnes, and try the 62gr stuff. I've had fantastic experiences with multiple weights across three calibers with the TSX/TTSX. It is hard to recommend against them when stuff needs killed.

In the .223 specifically, I've had great results with the now discontinued 64gr Speer Gold Dot. It has put big pigs down in a hurry with well placed shots, and also does very good on coyotes. It is hard to find a bullet that does well on both. I wouldn't hesitate to try the 62 or 75gr examples of those if you'd be willing to try a bonded bullet.

 

[powdahound76]

FLM 22c 77gr "Cayuga" Hunting Bullets - 50ct

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

I have not tried these.

Have seen plenty of people happy with the larger bullets.

You have a lead free demand due to govt?

77 smk works dandy fer me…..

 

[Jayjay1]

I've had fantastic experiences with multiple weights across three calibers with the TSX/TTSX. It is hard to recommend against them when stuff needs killed.

May I ask you how much you have set them back from the lands?

I wouldn't hesitate to try the 62 or 75gr examples of those if you'd be willing to try a bonded bullet.

I will try the 60+ gr. bullets.

 

[Jayjay1]

FLM 22c 77gr "Cayuga" Hunting Bullets - 50ct

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

You have a lead free demand due to govt?

77 smk works dandy fer me…..

Yes, exactly.

Well, it is not about the bullet weight, but more of the length of the cylindric part, right?

So a 77gr. lead-core bullet might have the same length like a 60-ish solid bullet, or not?

And the SMKs are target bullets I think.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Great read:

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

77 grain tmk is the easy button for 223 hunting.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yep, 77gr TMK is the way to go.

 

[Jayjay1]

Well, because of the law I have to use solids, so a TMK is sadly not an option.

 

[Ernest 5.56]

Try Leigh defense

 

[johnnyvw]

Lehigh Defense

 

[Franko]

Check out Hammer bullets, Cutting Edge, and Badlands Precision.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Barnes makes a handful of different 223 bullets as well

 

[Clayman]

Hey guys,
I´ve got a Proof Research carbon fiber 18" 1/8" barrel in .223 Wylde and am looking for a copper/brass/solid hunting bullet.

Does anyone have this barrel and can recommend me a precise solid bullet?
(I´ve tried some which I had on hands, 55gr TTSX, 55gr E-Tip, 70 TSx, but there was no "hell-yeah"-one from the get-go.)

77 tmk is the answer.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

Very long thread but some incredible wound profiles on deer, elk, moose, etc with the 77 tmk.

 

[bfoosh006]

What are you hunting ? Sorry if I missed it.

 

[Franko]

77 tmk is the answer.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

Very long thread but some incredible wound profiles on deer, elk, moose, etc with the 77 tmk.

That thread is amazing. Doing some serious rethinking about hunting bullets and cartridges.

 

[Gtscotty]

77 tmk is the answer.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

Very long thread but some incredible wound profiles on deer, elk, moose, etc with the 77 tmk.

That thread makes a pretty damned convincing argument for the 77 TMK and 88 ELDm for most of us. Unfortunately OP said he's legally bound to use monos.

 

[Clayman]

Unfortunately OP said he's legally bound to use monos

I should read more carefully. Did not see that.

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

I've had good luck with the older Hornady 70gr GMX bullets if you can still find them. The Barnes TTSX 70gr is also decent. They're not match bullets, but they perform really well terminally.

 

[Jayjay1]

Good thing I´m looking for a hunting bullet.


Do have their 77grainer TSX in use, until now I had no luck with it (over 2 MOA), but I´m still testing.

 

[waspocrew]

If monos, the 70 gr Barnes TSX works well. I’ve killed a hog with one out of my 223 Wylde. Others to consider would be Hammer bullets - they have quite a few options, including newer tipped versions.

I have yet to kill with Hammer bullets but plan to this fall.

 

[Kiba]

I currently use the Lehigh 72gr controlled chaos with great luck in 2x 223AIs and a 22BR, as I also have to use non lead bullets for hunting. They're very accurate in all 3 rifles and make things very dead.

I tried the cutting edge 78 MTH in the same 2x 223AIs and the 22BR and could not get them to group in any of them. Some other members here had the same issues with the 78 MTH not grouping well.

Also tried the hammer 73gr and while they grouped better than the cutting edge 78 they did not group nearly as well as the Lehigh 72, and had a lower bc and higher price than the Lehigh.

I have not tried the hammer .224 HHT 74gr or 80gr as they were not available when I was working up loads for those 3 rifles.

I have not tried the 77 Cayugas yet, but they have the best bc of any of the .224 solids that I've seen; I'll be giving them a try soon in my new 22GT. If they shoot well I'll probably switch to them and stop shooting the Lehigh 72s. While the Lehigh 72s have been extremely accurate with good terminal effects they no longer have the significant price advantage they once did (they used to be about $36-40 per 100, now they're $73/100-- but currently on sale for $62/100.) At Lehigh's current price of $73/100 I don't mind paying just a bit more for the higher bc 77 Cayugas, providing they shoot as well as the Lehigh 72s. If the Cayugas can't group as well or better than the Lehigh 72s, I'll stick with Lehigh.

One thing to consider-- the heavier (70gr+) non lead .224 bullets are really, really long, and you might not be able to seat them to fit in an AR magazine, especially with a .223 case. In a small frame AR with AR mag length limitations many of the heavier non lead bullets are better suited to something with a shorter case like 224 Valkyrie.

 

[Jeff Gahler]

I hear rave reviews about these in short barrels

Black Hills 5.56 50gr TSX, Optimized – OLDVIRGINIA

Out of stock. 500 rd case @ $861.88 (free shipping) call 760 895 9574 Order desk open 7 days a week8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Pacific

oldvirginia.net

Not sure how well heavier ones work

 

[Molon]

10-shot groups fired from an AR-15 . . .

....

 

[Molon]

I hear rave reviews about these in short barrels

Black Hills 5.56 50gr TSX, Optimized – OLDVIRGINIA

Out of stock. 500 rd case @ $861.88 (free shipping) call 760 895 9574 Order desk open 7 days a week8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Pacific

oldvirginia.net

Not sure how well heavier ones work

The monolithic (all copper) Barnes 50 grain TSX hollow-point bullet used in the 5.56mm Black Hills load is a proprietary design; it’s not the same 50 grain TSX projectile that is available as a reloading component. The proprietary 50 grain TSX was developed to provide better blind-to-barriers performance after passing through automobile safety glass (windshields) compared to the standard TSX projectiles. The original TSX bullets have unfortunate occurrences of the expanding petals shearing-off (or collapsing-in on themselves) when passing through auto safety glass. The proprietary 50 grain TSX has greatly improved on this situation (although the petals of the new 50 grain TSX still tend to collapse-in on themselves when passing through sheet metal barriers.)

A side effect of the proprietary 50 grain TSX projectile’s ability to expand and retain its petals after passing through auto safety glass is that the velocity expansion threshold of the new projectile has risen compared to the original TSX design (from approximately 1900 FPS to approximately 2300 FPS). This is where the increased velocity of the 5.56mm load (compared to a standard 223 Remington load) proves beneficial.

The new design of the proprietary 50 grain TSX, combined with the increased velocity of the 5.56mm load (along with the relatively shorter length of the 50 grain projectile) allows this load to be adequately stabilized from a wide variety of barrel twist rates and produce extremely consistent terminal ballistic properties from a wide variety of barrel lengths. The pic below shows that the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX load fired from a 10.5” barrel produces nearly the same results in bare ballistic gelatin as the load does when fired from a 20” barrel.

Courtesy of Black Hills


Terminal ballistic data obtained by Dr GK Roberts in both bare gel and gel after passing through auto safety glass, when fired from a 14.5” M4 barrel, shows how wells this projectile performs.

Bare gel

Penetration = 14.7”

Recovered diameter = 0.47”

Auto safety glass

Penetration = 17.0”

Recovered diameter = 0.36”


Being a monolithic bullet, the 50 grain TSX is actually slightly longer than a lead-core/copper-jacketed 55 grain FMJ bullet. The 50 grain TSX projectile does not have a cannelure per se, however, the case-mouth is crimped into the top relief-band of the bullet. The primers are also crimped in place. The 50 grain TSX is loaded in WCC 5.56mm brass. The round is charged with a ball powder. The lot of this ammunition that I evaluated had neither sealed primers nor sealed case-mouths, though it is reported that Black Hills will be remedying this situation in the near future.

Speed is fine . . .


I chronographed the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel.

Chronographing was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The Oehler 35P chronograph is actually two chronographs in one package that takes two separate chronograph readings for each shot and then has its onboard computer analyze the data to determine if there is any statistically significant difference between the two readings. If there is, the chronograph “flags” the shot to let you know that the data is invalid. There was no invalid data flagged during this testing.


The velocity stated below is the muzzle velocity as calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. The string of fire consisted of 10 rounds over the chronograph.

Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.

Atmospheric conditions


Temperature: 78 degrees F

Humidity: 39%

Barometric pressure: 30.10 inches of Hg

Elevation: 950 feet above sea level



The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition fired from the 20” Colt barrel was 3419 FPS with a standard deviation of 11 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.32%!


For those of you who might not be familiar with the coefficient of variation (CV), it is the standard deviation, divided by the mean (average) muzzle velocity and then multiplied by 100 and expressed as a percentage. It allows for the comparison of the uniformity of velocity between loads in different velocity spectrums; e.g. 77 grain loads running around 2,650 fps compared to 55 grain loads running around 3,250 fps.


For comparison (and to give you an idea of how good the CV is for this factory loaded 50 grain TSX ammunition) the mil-spec for M193 allows for a coefficient of variation of approximately 1.2%, while one of my best 77 grain OTM hand-loads, with a muzzle velocity of 2639 PFS and a standard deviation of 4 FPS, has a coefficient of variation of 0.15%.

Accuracy is final . .



I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the Black Hills 5.56mm 50 grain TSX ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).


The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.


All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was used. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.

The Wind Probe.

The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel. The barrel has a 223 Wylde chamber with a 1:8” twist. Prior to firing the 50 grain TSX ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing. That group had an extreme spread of 0.83”.

Next, three 10-shot groups of the 50 grain TSX load were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads:


1.64”

2.09”

1.97”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.90”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.63”.

The smallest 10-shot group . . .

The 30-shot composite group . . .

......

 

[Jayjay1]

Thank you for the effort you have put in Molon

I´ve tested some loads with the 70gr. TSX and can say that those were the worst until now out of this barrel.

Best group (fired yesterday) with the 69gr. TMK were five shots under .25MOA at 100m.
This will be my sporting load now.
Still "on the hunt" for a fast mono-bullet-load.

Monos tested:
55gr. E-Tip (best by now, but still with .8MOA at 100m)
55gr. TTSX (1MOA/100)
60gr. Fox (1MOA/100)
70gr. TSX (no way)

 

[jstone]

if you are able to use a bullet that is not monolithic the nosler partition is great. it's available as a 60 grain bullet. the top section expands rapidly, and the back half allows for great penetration. the bullet is available for reloading and federal used to have one load using the partition.

 

[Molon]

In the .223 specifically, I've had great results with the now discontinued 64gr Speer Gold Dot. It has put big pigs down in a hurry with well placed shots, and also does very good on coyotes. It is hard to find a bullet that does well on both. I wouldn't hesitate to try the 62 or 75gr examples of those if you'd be willing to try a bonded bullet.

The Swift Scirocco II is also an excellent choice for a bonded bullet. The 75 grain Scirocco II is the longest .224” bullet that is loadable to magazine length in the AR-15 that I’m aware of and is one of the most accurate bonded bullets that I’ve tested.

…