Proof vs. Bartlein/Krieger

[surgeon260]

I am considering a Proof barrel for a hunting rig for the weight savings and because they look cool/different. For those of you who have run these barrels, how is the accuracy? Are you seeing Bartlein/Krieger levels of accuracy from Proof? Given the cost of a custom build and the ADDED cost of a Proof, I am just curious how these barrels compare to the best of the all-steel cut-rifled lot.

Also, now that Proof is adding more and more OEM customers (eg. Weatherby), has anyone noticed a drop off in quality in recent months?

Your first hand experience is much appreciated.

 

[OH58DViper]

You can check some of my previous posts doing load data and such with a proof. I’m actually trying to source a full bull at the moment and have a 338 sendero being turned into a 338 RUM on a PRS 1 and Defiance action. I’ll buy proof from here on out if it fits the application.

 

[Wyfox]

I have 5 Proof carbon barrels now, all shoot just as good as my Bartlein guns. Just started load development today on my newest one in 6.5 creed, 15 rounds down the pipe and load developement was pretty easy. This is what I got right out the gate. I'll tweak it somemore when i get over 100rds through it.

 

[brianf]

for pure hunting purposes, get a pencil thin barrel from any of those three.
there is no first shot difference if its spun by a good smith.
you dont shoot groups at animals...maybe Pdogs on a field. they wind up being groups by volume

 

[Wyfox]

If you run suppressed then you're shit out of luck with a pencil contour. I also like beefier stocks, my main hunting rifle is on an Mcmillan HTG. A pencil barrel in an HTG just looks silly.

 

[brianf]

Wyfox, i agree 100%. skinny barrel in a huge channel looks like sh@t.
only issue is that im getting old and lazy and dont want to hump the weight. lol

 

[surgeon260]

Wyfox, what was the range on that group? Assuming 100 yards, that looks to be about 0.75 MOA? In the world of custom barrels and chambers, that's pretty average. Am I missing something? Please don't take this as an affront, I am just curious.

 

[RTH1800]

I have set up two Proof CF barrels. Both were 5.56 AR rigs. Both are sub 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups and 40FPS FASTER than any other barrels I have tried including the ones you mentioned.

 

[supercorndogs]

Wyfox, what was the range on that group? Assuming 100 yards, that looks to be about 0.75 MOA? In the world of custom barrels and chambers, that's pretty average. Am I missing something? Please don't take this as an affront, I am just curious.

Looking at the grid and assuming they are 1/2 inch squares. It looks like .5 MOA to me.

 

[Wyfox]

Wyfox, what was the range on that group? Assuming 100 yards, that looks to be about 0.75 MOA? In the world of custom barrels and chambers, that's pretty average. Am I missing something? Please don't take this as an affront, I am just curious.

Brand new barrel first group shot after zero. Haven't even done an OCW test yet. That was a load recipe from my AI. By the way it's .61 center to center and I had a stiff crosswind. All my Proofs shoot less than .5" after load developement. I dont get to serious on load developement until I have over 100rds through the barrel.

 

[Nik H]

I am considering a Proof barrel for a hunting rig for the weight savings and because they look cool/different. For those of you who have run these barrels, how is the accuracy? Are you seeing Bartlein/Krieger levels of accuracy from Proof? Given the cost of a custom build and the ADDED cost of a Proof, I am just curious how these barrels compare to the best of the all-steel cut-rifled lot.

Also, now that Proof is adding more and more OEM customers (eg. Weatherby), has anyone noticed a drop off in quality in recent months?

Your first hand experience is much appreciated.

Just bought my first PROOF carbon for my AI AT in 6.5 Creedmor. Had a Bartlein prior. Bartlein was awesome but the PROOF is better - smaller groups, less coldbore deviation, less heating and lighter. They have ruined me. Will likely always go PROOF. Barrel is also a work of art. Beautiful finish

 

[300ATT]

I have a couple of Bartleins - They shoot great - 1/4 to 1/2 MOA. I have two Proofs (6x47 and .280 Ackley) and they shoot just as good ... if not better than the Bartlein. I have not seen any POI shifts as the barrel heats up and for me the extra $$ is worth the weight reduction.

FWIW, I started a thread on a "Go Lite" PRS rifle that I built. I have some pictures of groups including a 20+ round string to "stress test" the proof carbon fibre barrel:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/golite-prs-build-by-milehigh-its-a-shooter.6871206/

 

[stwcattle]

I always ran Bartlien barrels on all my rifle's. No more. Both my main hunting rifles, 6 creedmoor and 6.5x284 Norma are Proof carbon barrels in Manners EH1 stocks.

As mentioned above, groups are unreal and I am not noticing any coldbore deviation worth mentioning,

 

[TripleBull]

In case you decide to go with a Bartlein:

https://www.rvinyl.com/3M-Wrap-Film...MIrIaPsaK12gIVwo2zCh0kpwYBEAQYASABEgJNYPD_BwE

 

[pmclaine]

Brand new barrel first group shot after zero. Haven't even done an OCW test yet. That was a load recipe from my AI. By the way it's .61 center to center and I had a stiff crosswind. All my Proofs shoot less than .5" after load developement. I dont get to serious on load developement until I have over 100rds through the barrel.

The barrel hasn't even sped up, I'd say impressive/promising right off the bat.

 

[Bandit31]

I'd go with the Proof. Interestingly enough, my first 6.5 creedmoor was a Kreiger, followed by a Bartlein, and then two Proofs. I didn't have a good experience with my Bartlein so I popped it off early and replaced it with my first Proof that ended up with a bum chamber job but it still shot half moa or less with prime and handloads. I'm still working in my replacement but so far its about half moa, sometimes little less.

 

[Mudlol]

Any of those barrel will shoot if they are built by a reputable gunsmith.

 

[300ATT]

+1 What Mudol said.

My experience is that all of the barrels mentioned (Kreiger, Bartlein, Proof ... ) will shoot if they are chambered/fitted by a good gunsmith.

The extra $$ for the proof is for a significant weight reduction and the coolness of carbon if you are into that ...

 

[PFG]

Agree with @300ATT. The big draw is weight savings when going with a heavier contour.

IME, its a pretty big game changer that allows you to walk that line closer on the side of a hunting rifle weight but with the rigidity of a bigger contour.

 

[300ATT]

A proof barrel does allow you to build a true dual purpose hunting/match rifle. I have two rifles on mausingfields that weigh in at 10-11 pounds with optics and they are as accurate and consistent as my 16-18 pound AI's

 

[Maelstrom]

Stupid question but can you run a direct attached suppressor on a proof carbon barrel?

 

[Supersubes]

Stupid question but can you run a direct attached suppressor on a proof carbon barrel?

Yes, no different than an all steel barrel.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have 5 Proof carbon barrels now, all shoot just as good as my Bartlein guns. Just started load development today on my newest one in 6.5 creed, 15 rounds down the pipe and load developement was pretty easy. This is what I got right out the gate. I'll tweak it somemore when i get over 100rds through it.
View attachment 6893133

Was this the TL3 with the barloc you posted the pics of?

 

[Wyfox]

Yes, it was.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Badass. How was the feel of the rifle, balance and such?

 

[Wyfox]

Great, it's 13#'s with optic and bipod. Balances really nice. Looking forward to running it in a few comps.

 

[RedRyder]

I'm putting a Sendero contour Proof into a McMillan A5 stock. Don't much care how it looks, just as long as I can carry it.

 

[Deleted member 188725]

Any of those barrel will shoot if they are built by a reputable gunsmith.

Can you give me names of a few reputable gun smiths? I have a Remington 700 I want to have received trued and Kreiger barrel put on. So far I’ve talked to Karl kampfeld who can do this for $900.

 

[cjs88]

Can you give me names of a few reputable gun smiths? I have a Remington 700 I want to have received trued and Kreiger barrel put on. So far I’ve talked to Karl kampfeld who can do this for $900.

Tons of smiths out there who can do it. GAP, PVA, Stewart Rifles, Alamo Precision, Bugholes, etc. Just google or read through here and you'll find a ton. If you want a true masterpiece, send the action to Mike R at Tac Ops. Be prepared to pay a lot though. Linked the Tac Ops thread, you'll get a rifle that shoots .0xx on the test target.

 

[JaoeyP]

Can you give me names of a few reputable gun smiths? I have a Remington 700 I want to have received trued and Kreiger barrel put on. So far I’ve talked to Karl kampfeld who can do this for $900.

With the availability of custom actions there is ZERO reason to pay $900 to blueprint a crummy Remington 700 action. For $900 you can buy a Zermatt Origin (or a number of other actions) that was built from the ground up with all the truing you're doing after the fact to your 700. It's DLC coated so it will likely be smoother AND you can buy prefit barrels off the shelf (Proof research for about $550 for example) that will headspace correctly without ANY smith work.

 

[cjs88]

With the availability of custom actions there is ZERO reason to pay $900 to blueprint a crummy Remington 700 action. For $900 you can buy a Zermatt Origin (or a number of other actions) that was built from the ground up with all the truing you're doing after the fact to your 700. It's DLC coated so it will likely be smoother AND you can buy prefit barrels off the shelf (Proof research for about $550 for example) that will headspace correctly without ANY smith work.

There are more than zero reasons to true a rem 700. Maybe he inherited the action from his father or grandfather? Therefore holding sentimental value but doesn't want the rifle it was once on.

 

[JaoeyP]

There are more than zero reasons to true a rem 700. Maybe he inherited the action from his father or grandfather? Therefore holding sentimental value but doesn't want the rifle it was once on.

Let Grandpa's rifle be Grandpa's rifle.

 

[jbuck88]

My grampa told me he rather me modify a gun from him into something I'd use versus something that sits in the safe unused.

 

[JaoeyP]

My grampa told me he rather me modify a gun from him into something I'd use versus something that sits in the safe unused.

Did he teach you about being responsible with your money? Because dumping money you'll never recoup into a lousy 700 action when better options are available is still cringe worthy and doesn't make sense. People may have reasons to waste the money on truing a 700, but they're not good reasons.

 

[jbuck88]

God rest his soul he tried.

Now resale value only matters for something that you would sell. I will never sell his. So I really don't give a shit what it's worth to someone else. It's priceless to me.

That's the whole point. You can't put a price on sentiment. Also a good smith will make a Rem shoot and function as good ad any custom action you can buy.

So it depends on what you want. If you are looking to make something that makes financial sense or emotional cents.

Good luck either way.

 

[moosemeat]

Did he teach you about being responsible with your money? Because dumping money you'll never recoup into a lousy 700 action when better options are available is still cringe worthy and doesn't make sense. People may have reasons to waste the money on truing a 700, but they're not good reasons.

He HAS the rifle, dropping $900 to have it blueprinted and a barrel installed is better than $900 for a action, $600 for a prefit and $200 for a trigger.

 

[MikeRTacOps]

Did he teach you about being responsible with your money? Because dumping money you'll never recoup into a lousy 700 action when better options are available is still cringe worthy and doesn't make sense. People may have reasons to waste the money on truing a 700, but they're not good reasons.

You just hurt my feelings

Mike R.

 

[trophy8]

Did he teach you about being responsible with your money? Because dumping money you'll never recoup into a lousy 700 action when better options are available is still cringe worthy and doesn't make sense. People may have reasons to waste the money on truing a 700, but they're not good reasons.

Shit. I built a damn nice hunting rifle on a Ruger M77 MKii action lmao. First “nice” rifle I ever bought myself when I was a teenager. I’ve had a bunch of custom rifles. Still have several. Way nicer than that Ruger action. But man it means a lot to me and my daughter will hopefully get it someday. And can tell stories to her kids about the whitetail, mule deer, nilgai, and axis it has killed. I’ve got fancy rigs. It still has its place amongst them.


OP, proof is producing great barrels. Most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned was a proof comp contour prefit on an impact! .09” at 200 after hammering a fast string of 11 rounds. I had to have a bartlein carbon barrel warrantied. It shot great then went to absolute dog shit. They warrantied it. Never admitted the issue but admitted it had one.

Have faith in proof. They make great barrels.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

Shit. I built a damn nice hunting rifle on a Ruger M77 MKii action lmao. First “nice” rifle I ever bought myself when I was a teenager. I’ve had a bunch of custom rifles. Still have several. Way nicer than that Ruger action. But man it means a lot to me and my daughter will hopefully get it someday. And can tell stories to her kids about the whitetail, mule deer, nilgai, and axis it has killed. I’ve got fancy rigs. It still has its place amongst them.


OP, proof is producing great barrels. Most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned was a proof comp contour prefit on an impact! .09” at 200 after hammering a fast string of 11 rounds. I had to have a bartlein carbon barrel warrantied. It shot great then went to absolute dog shit. They warrantied it. Never admitted the issue but admitted it had one.

Have faith in proof. They make great barrels.

Any experience with proof CF barrels or only stainless? How long ago was the bartlein issue?

 

[trophy8]

Any experience with proof CF barrels or only stainless? How long ago was the bartlein issue?

Yes I’ve ran several proof carbon barrels. All shot very well. Bartlein issue was early last year. I posted on here about it asking if anyone had seen or heard any issues. I got dog piled pretty bad. They were wrong. Barrel was garbage. I have ran more bartlein steel barrels than any other brand combined. So I was pretty bummed.

I’d gladly run anything proof makes. I’m still hesitant on bartlein due to my issue. It cost me a ton of time and money. And it was a fight getting it warrantied. But they did it. I haven’t heard of anymore issues. I heard sone prior to my purchase. Maybe they corrected the issue.

 

[JaoeyP]

You just hurt my feelings

Mike R.

Okay okay okay, there are a few decent reasons for building on and truing a Remington 700.

 

[MikeRTacOps]

Okay okay okay, there are a few decent reasons for building on and truing a Remington 700.

I think we might see eye to eye on that issue my Ninja

Mike R.

 

[Hattrick]

If you have 700 action use it.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

I am late to the party but would like to add my $.02

Of the three barrel manufacturers asked about. Only the one without major/minor bore dimensions stamped on the end requires me to break out the entire set of reamer pilots to check fit.

Nuff said.

 

[powdahound76]

I am late to the party but would like to add my $.02

Of the three barrel manufacturers asked about. Only the one without major/minor bore dimensions stamped on the end requires me to break out the entire set of reamer pilots to check fit.

Nuff said.

I have a Bart this man chambered.

Trying a basic load, getting zeroed, my first group shot was .337”.
And I pulled 1.
4 were .127”.

Havent shoot it under 400 yds since and should go throw a few through it for groups tomorrow.

Thanks!

(My 2 proof prefit tubes shoot darn good too!)

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

I have a Bart this man chambered.

Trying a basic load, getting zeroed, my first group shot was .337”.
And I pulled 1.
4 were .127”.

Havent shoot it under 400 yds since and should go throw a few through it for groups tomorrow.

Thanks!

(My 2 proof prefit tubes shoot darn good too!)

Good shooting and good reloading.

I am not saying Proof's bore size variance shows up on target or chrono, just something I noticed over time. I appreciate Kreiger and Bartlein's consistency........I figure if they keep bore size consistent, then they can keep other barrel characteristics consistent too.

Ern