Gunsmithing Protecting Ideas and Designs

GasLight

GasLight

That Guy
Banned !
Full Member
Minuteman
May 2, 2008
1,962
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Bozeman, MT
www.thevaultgunandloan.com
#1
Hello all, I think this is about as appropriate of a place as any. So here we go.

I have what I believe to be a fairly unique and potentially effective design idea for a suppressor baffle. I am wondering how I can go about getting feedback and input on the design without exposing the idea? Also, I know I can Form 1 the idea to test, but I think if I can get a 3D model built, it would help considerably in getting input and design ideas.

Another question, if you show an idea to someone, and they end up manufacturing it and trying to patent it, is there recourse if you can prove you had the idea before it was patented and manufactured?

Thanks for any input!

Dave
 
#2
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

I would say before you show it to anyone to take pictures that are dated at least. You can send them to me also! Trust Me!
wink.gif
 
#3
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

I just asked my wife as she deals with patents quite a bit. She said if you have it written out and documented and signed and dated then have a witness sign it that will work. Although she did say that going through court to prove otherwise is not only a pain but can be a huge cost as well so be careful
 
#4
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

You need to sign confidentiality and non-disclosure agreements with anyone you discuss or show it to.

Then have at least a provisional patent pend. app. filed before any public disclosure.

Best to talk to a lawyer pretty quick if you are serious.

The dated pictures mailed to yourself are worthless, by themself.
 
#5
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

agreed with the confidentiality agreement. That would hold a lot more weight and be a lot less likely for anyone to go behind you knowing they signed one. I would like to say everyone on the hide seems to be honest and great people wanting to help but you know anyone can google something and see a post from the hide so who knows who would see your ideas if you shared with us. I think most of us here would love to see what your ideas are and try to help you but if it were me I think I would get it patent pending first.
 
#6
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

I am in a similar situation right now building prototypes, creating CAD drawings, and in the beginning phase of obtaining patents on an idea.

It's nice to share your idea for input from trusted friends and professionals that can help you hone your design, and there is formal protection you can obtain to insure cooberators cannot steal your idea as you progress (with their assistance), but I would NOT share any of that through a public forum no matter what kind of photos you've already sent to yourself.

"Patent Pending" is a great place to be before you make your idea public and it's best to be able to get your idea into production while the patent is pending. I've been told that Patent Pending is better than having a finalized patent in some instances, since others that may want to bogard your design have to wait to actually see your completed patent before they can figure out a way to design around it.. That may or may not apply in your case. just something to think about.

I'm not a patent expert- just someone who's in the same boat as you and done a little research on it. A Patent attorney is not optional, I've come to realize that.
 
#8
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

any idea as to what a provisional patent costs? And how far along on the development do you need to be to apply?

The problem with trying to patent this idea right now, is I really don't have any idea if it will work or not
smile.gif
I would hate to spend the money on something that isn't going to work worth a damn. I guess I am back to phase 1 building a prototype and testing it myself?
 
#9
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

There are specific avenues you can take to protect you idea while you enlist help from others prior to applying for a patent (like I said, I'm in the same situation as you right now) There are specific and formal things you need to do when engaging the help of say- an engineering firm, or a parts manufacturer like an injection molding company. What it sounds like you need mainly is filing a "disclosure document" with the patent office- It's kind of a catch all covering your informal dealings with folks that might later claim the idea as their own.

It's explained pretty well below..

(I took this following quote from a (very helpful) short run injection molding co's website- http://dragonjewelinc.com/home7.htm )


"In order to protect the inventor's interests a Letter of Confidentiality or Confidentiality Agreement may be signed by both inventor and manufacturer. Better protection may be had during the development and engineering phases by means of a Disclosure Document, filed with the Patent Office. The filing costs $10, and establishes that you are working on the described idea (it is NOT a patent application- it just establishes a date, making you 'senior party' to later persons filing). The Patent Office returns to you a number to which you may later refer when filing for a patent. The Disclosure remains on file for two years."....
http://www.uspto.gov/forms/index.jsp


In the big picture, I would not get so paranoid that I'd be afraid to enlist the aid of friends and professionals that can help you- In practice it's not these folks that can screw you- and most have a built in liability in the application of standard buisiness practices) just be careful with things like photographs and descriptions that can end up on the internet and spread faster then a co-ed's spring break boob shots. After showing my prototype to a friend his initial response was basically "That's the coolest thing I've ever seen, I've GOT to send a picture of this to ......." I shut him down right away, but I doubt he shares my concern, nor would the next guy getting the pictures. His reaction kinda haunts me, so I have since shown the thing or spoken of it to very few people.


hope that helps..
 
#11
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

Another protection besides the dated pictures, is to get all the data you have and the confidentiality agreements together and send them to yourself in a sealed and notarized package by registered mail. That will give you a leg up on proving that your idea was first in line.
 
#12
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

Here's some additional advise.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you have a functional print, divy up the parts between a medley of shops.

It's against the law to build a silencer without a license. It's not against the law to manufacture a big washer, a flanged nut, a tube cut to length, and so on.

Spread the wealth and no gets to see the final product but you. May cost you a little more initially till you get the final touches sorted out, but at least this way you get to direct your own movie. Developmental costs for any new product are a bitch. It's expensive no matter what your doing. Just ensure you research the law regarding NFA items so that your well educated in the game. Avoid the "sea lawyers" and forums for legal advise.

That being said experience has shown me this:

<span style="font-style: italic">Lawyer up when the time is right and your investment will never generate a return. Lawyer up after the bomb's already gone off and it will cost you 10 times as much.</span>

Good luck.

C
 
#14
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

The best thing you can do is just get patent pending before talking to people. Then it doesn't mater, your covered. NDA's are ok for some shops too.

Another thing you should research before you get going is if you will be infringing on someone else's patent. Just because you never seen it doesn't mean someone else hasn't done it. Tons of patents out there for suppressor stuff and this can save you lots of R&D money
smile.gif


"It's against the law to build a silencer without a license. It's not against the law to manufacture a big washer, a flanged nut, a tube cut to length, and so on."

You might want to check on that. It all has to do with the intended use. YMMV...
 
#15
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

I'm pretty sure I can build the design on a Form 1 with the equipement I have right now, and it sounds like that is the least expensive way to go right now. If I build it and it is stellar quiet, I will look at patent process later. I appreciate the input, I was hoping to get an idea if this would work or not before dedicating to the Form 1, but it sounds like that is the cheapest way to go about this whole thing.

Thanks for all the advice and input!

Dave
 
#17
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best thing you can do is just get patent pending before talking to people. Then it doesn't mater, your covered. NDA's are ok for some shops too.

Another thing you should research before you get going is if you will be infringing on someone else's patent. Just because you never seen it doesn't mean someone else hasn't done it. Tons of patents out there for suppressor stuff and this can save you lots of R&D money
smile.gif


"It's against the law to build a silencer without a license. It's not against the law to manufacture a big washer, a flanged nut, a tube cut to length, and so on."

You might want to check on that. It all has to do with the intended use. YMMV... </div></div>

Glen your correct I guess. I was viewing it strictly from an intellectual property perspective.
 
#18
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

You need to apply for the form 1, and be approved before you can even start your build.. You can not build it and then apply for the forum 1. I think you can only do one suppressor on a forum 1 per year? But I am not 100% sure on that..
 
#19
Re: Protecting Ideas and Designs

Dave,

From my experience, the following sequence would be appropriate:

1. Do patent search yourself (www.uspto.gov)

2. If no similar patents are found, then build prototype
for the initial test, desirably by youself to limit any
exposure of details to the otside world. Test it by yourself
to determine feasibility of your design idea.

3. If prototype works to your satisfaction, then file
provisional patent application, to get priority date and
the right to use "patent pending". Use patent attorney
for advice and desirably, to review/correct your draft
of provisional patent application ($500-$1000).

4. After you get confirmation from USPTO that your
provisional is accepted, you can show your idea around
with the full year of "patent pending" protection.

None-disclosure arrangement without having provisional
application filed is not generally an effective way
to protect your idea, for many reasons, including leak
of info from the party which signed ND docs, to the third
party which did not sign ND docs with you. This can happen,
and you will not to be able to prove that such leak took
place, unless you're extremely lucky.

And avoid dealing with big companies without having at least
the provisional patent application filed, if they decide
to use your idea as their own, you will likely not be in
a position to afford to prove anything.



 
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