Protecting the border

Re: Protecting the border

If I saw those water barrels set up for illegals I'd be taking target practice at them.

However, the only REAL solution is this.


A) Every worker gets a card, in to which they are allowed to legally work here. They *MUST* pay federal income tax. They *MUST* pay SS.

B) They are given a $1000 fine for being here and allowed to get the card to pay the taxes.

C) Employers caught hiring illegals after cards have been issued will be fined $100,000 per day per illegal.

D) Set up a bill to the Mexico government for the entire costs incurred for illegals - force Mexico to pay.

IF a "Documented" worker works for 20 years and doesn't gain his citizenship LEGALLY - his SS paid is not refunded. If he obtains citizenship he may draw it after the age of 65.


Simple, I know people don't like Amnesty but there's no other way to do it without being sued by all of the bleeding hearts.

And the income tax coming in from 15 million people - nice.
 
Re: Protecting the border

They have options but the govt is so currupt and the cartels kill anyone who wants to stop them and improve the country. I know that making drugs legal will do nothing to help out the American people or economy.
 
Re: Protecting the border

active duty troops would have no enforcement authority on the border.

What's needed, among other things is a serious change of mindset, leadership, and ROE at USBP.
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HB, Its not much more difficult than that. It is the employers responsibility to know who they are hiring. We can block them militarily, but we need to take the incentive away from them coming here too. Its a double edged sword. Ok did something similar, and you know what, the illegals left. </div></div>

I agree with you but what about the illegals who steal somebody else identity to obtain a job? Can you really say that it's the employers responsibility to do all the investigation into a persons background when even the Gov. doesn't do that?
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyser Söze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Putting a half million troops on the border, would cost the tax payers like a billion dollars a week.

I am as frustrated by illegal immigration from Mexico as the next guy, but IMO someone who supports that kind of spending of taxpayer dollars just to keep Mexicans out of the country does so based purely on racism. </div></div>

And how much do you think it is costing us tax payers to have all the illegals in this country?????
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sean-
Your 'saving' money theory was shot down back in the Prohibition days of our nation's history.

This isn't a plumbing problem where the proper valve shuts off the flow of drugs.

I am always amazed how 'simple' the wrong decisions are, in my lifetime, from commies to contras. From oil to taxes. Now a few decades of a war on drugs and so many think the pipeline can just be shut off.

There are a few huge reasons Canada doesn't have a serious drug problem. First your nation has 34 million or so people. That is about the same as California, or 10% of the United States.

You don't have the consumer base to draw a large drug problem to the frozen north. It is alot like being too small a town to justify a Walmart.

Second big reason is with a porous southern border you are not needed by the drug cartels. But if the southern border ever gets sealed up you are in for a shitload of trouble. You will be our next Mexico. You don't seem to understand the drug trade, your nation is just Mexico at a lower temp.

The drug lords will have no problem setting up shop in your country and using the northern border to attempt to satisfy American drug cravings.

Will be odd to see our American TV shows showing ruthless gangsters saying 'eh' at the end of their threat!
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It isn't a south to north thing, it is a suck hole drawing in as much of whatever the hole wants. Be it oil or drugs. Cocaine is the opium of today but with the tremendous success in Afganistan I can see Heroin Chic making a great come back.

With a new overseas connection I can see the pipeline coming through Canada.

Now I have nothing but love for my very blanc northern brothers but you aint seen shit until the southern border closes.

Not that I think any Bullshit machinegun wire mine death strip will stop drugs.

Americans get what they what, as long as people keep taking our IOUs or the gold card holds up.

Good Luck being the next transit nation.



Small </div></div>

Canada could never be a Mexico, ever try growing cocaine plants in the cold canadian weather
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if we make dope legal then we don't have anything to be contrite about regarding the damage we've done to Mexico, and points south, by our insatiable demand for narcotics, weed and the cheap labor needed to keep our kids on a fast track to a law degree (or name your white collar career)? No...

The border needs to be secured as a matter of law enforcement and national integrity. No nation exists without a regulated border: even the biggest loud mouth on the subject of "the cruel U.S immigration policies", i.e., Mexico! Their army is sure as fuck on both of their borders, (North and south) and often north of ours!

As to this horse shit about killing them, honestly...The vast majority are coming here to work and better themselves. It's really is as simple as that. Ask yourselves what you would do with a family to support and no options to do so: Right across the border is a nation so rife with opportunity that is, ironically, deemed beneath the dignity of huge numbers of Americans, yet looks like a gold mine to them.

Say what you will about fair wages for labor, no matter what the industry or service, the fact is all people seek to pay less, not more. The corollary of that is that all people seek to sell for more rather than less. Thus, the U.S. will always be a magnet to the people of less developed (And un-Free!) nations as long as we remain the productive engine of commerce we have always been.

A more pragmatic approach than the nonsense about minefields and shooting galleries would be to direct a workable strategy targeting the many cause of this problem.

1)Attack the glorification of drug use by Hollywood, music performers and others through ridicule and boycotting the users and their advocates.

2)Shame the Mexican upper class for their embarrassing practices of nepotism and waste of resources that clearly rival those of the U.S. Why are they so unproductive? They have nearly all the same natural resources as we do and as much coastline! Clearly their people are unafraid of work!

3) Condemn those in the U.S. who exploit the wave of illegal immigration from Mexico who see them as an additional, permanent, monolithic voting bloc, certain to vote for one political party. Those who seek a cheap labor supply will find it from whatever nation they come from but the chief reason for encouraging the wave of Mexican illegals is to bolster one party. Enough said.

4) Punish those that exploit the labor market by encouraging illegal immigration to keep their expenses down while frustrating any chance for domestic workers to obtain higher wages. A willingness of consumers to to pay more for native labor would help!

This kind of market manipulation gets called many things when corporations and legislators whine about it; often leading to tariffs and trade sanctions. Instead, the native worker is expected to suck it up and is called a racist if he doesn't.

5) Perhaps this last seems a little trivial, but something along the lines of the Magnificent 7 (Or the 7 Samurai for the purists!) is in order. As the same ruling class pussies in Mexico deny their peasants the right to defend themselves as our know it all betters would do here, their lack of a constitutional right to do so has largely contributed to the lawlessness there. It's time that changed.

magnificentseven.jpg


There is more of course that needs to be done but lazy bromides or murderous sloganeering just looks vindictive and stupid.

The answer doesn't lie in standing shoulder to shoulder at our border. It is however very much dependent on taking a long view, looking at the glass as half full, applying numerous tactics toward a guiding strategy, remembering that the majority of these people are friendly to us and then seriously fucking with those who are not in <span style="font-weight: bold">their</span> own back yards.

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I'm with you.

Also quality usage of Magnificent 7.
 
Re: Protecting the border

Well, since queequeg is #1, and Torf is #2, then I go ahead and take the number 3 spot.

Only 4 more spots available before we go clean up Mexico. Ariba!
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Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have options but the govt is so currupt and the cartels kill anyone who wants to stop them and improve the country. I know that making drugs legal will do nothing to help out the American people or economy. </div></div>

That's easy. Why don't we deputize the Cosa Nostra and allow them to take care of the cartels.
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Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have options but the govt is so currupt and the cartels kill anyone who wants to stop them and improve the country. I know that making drugs legal will do nothing to help out the American people or economy. </div></div>

That's easy. Why don't we deputize the Cosa Nostra and allow them to take care of the cartels.
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It is so much easier than that. Arm the people of Mexico. The vast majority (99%) are good people who are scared shitless. If they were to be armed they could take back that country and at this point we would not need a border fence as most Mexican citizens would want to go back home.
 
Re: Protecting the border

I too spent a full tour in Korea. How many troops do we have on the DMZ? How close to the DMZ do you consider "on it"? I doubt if you know how many SMs we have in the BZ. Where was your Marine "buddy" stationed? Was he "on the DMZ"? I think not. Prep for a military conflict, with a well equipped, well trained, motivated, force-those with nuc's it quite a bit different from a handful of punks sneaking in, including those with AKs and a bag of dope. Anyone that actually spent time in Korea reads this post and shakes their heads.
 
Re: Protecting the border

Regarding the "Race Card" when discussing Mexico, can those experts point me to a real authority regarding Mexicans as being a race of people? Or is this just some foolish crap being put out by someone that does not understand Race? What dictionary can I find the race, "Mexican"? If a human was born in Mexico, with both parents being new Mexican citizens, that immigrated from Africa, both being Zulu's, would this new born child be African Mexican, or would they be Mexican? I put this forward, as I don't think the "race card" posters have any idea what "race" is.
 
Re: Protecting the border

Mechanic-
What I was saying is ACROSS the ENTIRE nation the trend is consolidating hospitals but INCREASING beds. 30% nationwide, 20% in SD. Bed numbers have actually gone UP in SD.

This IS NOT an immigrant driven problem. A great cross section of 'real' Americans can't afford healthcare. When a rural hospital closed in the Nation's heartland it isn't due to immigrants but poor real Americans not being able to provide the profit margin the medical profession seeks.

I'll bet you a shiny nickle if the border was sealed tight the same number of hospitals would have closed as the economic base in many depressed urban areas ACROSS the nation fail to support a local hospital and more and more medical systems rely on transport to mega hospitals.

Border crossers may have influenced where in the city hospitals closed but not the number that were closed.
 
Re: Protecting the border

E3-
Canada doesn't have to produce a single coca plant to be part of the pipeline.

I was talking aboot Afgan heroin which is being produced in huge amounts so the cost of transport still leaves plenty of profit.

Canada isn't in the corn belt but huge amounts of alcohol came across our northern border back during Prohibition. Drug runners can ship cocaine, meth, heroin, and hashish to the Great White North to push across that border.

If I was to set a game plan for infiltration of anything into this country I'd use the highly hyped SUV crossings that force the Border Guards to tie up HUGE amounts of manpower chasing around in the desert and drive semis of the stuff right up the interstate as part of the commercial traffic.

The huge volume of traffic, the small staffs to search semis coupled with demands of the business community to expedite shipments has the chance of detection the same as a shark attack in Montana.

I do not disparage border Guards but IF I could buy a few at certain times on certain checkpoints, so much the better.

It does cause me some concern people believe the desert pipeline is how the drug cartels are getting the tonnage of drugs consumed annually in this country.

Or a handful of numbnutz attempting to push a few SUVs across a low water crossing is the cutting edge of cross border smuggling.
 
Re: Protecting the border

I too spent a full tour in Korea. How many troops do we have on the DMZ? How close to the DMZ do you consider "on it"? I doubt if you know how many SMs we have in the BZ. Where was your Marine "buddy" stationed? Was he "on the DMZ"? I think not. Prep for a military conflict, with a well equipped, well trained, motivated, force-those with nuc's it quite a bit different from a handful of punks sneaking in, including those with AKs and a bag of dope. Anyone that actually spent time in Korea reads this post and shakes their heads.
_________________________
US ARMY, AVIATOR
NRA LIFE MEMBER


paw print, I can't speak for my Marine buddy but I was at Camp Humphries during the axe murders at the DMZ in August 1976. If you are aviation and in S. Korea, you may have heard of Camp Humphries. ASA occupied a small corner of Humphries. I clearly remember being on high alert, locked on post for 30 days, and B-52s coming over from Guam and Okinawa for a show of force. Had we been attacked and overrun, my duty was not to stand and fight but to go down shredding and burning documents. I vowed that when my service ended I would never be disarmed again.

Shake your head if you choose, but I was there. I doubt that you would call my friend Derek out to his face regarding his service. Avionics Gunny, but still a proud Marine.

By the way, my numbers were wrong. Apparently, troops have been reduced to 28,000 or so, instead of the 38,000 when Derek served, and 45,000 when I served. Point wasn't that all were on or near the DMZ. Point was that those serving in South Korea could be used effectively to protect our own border. But, we all KNOW, that is not a priority for our government or they would make it happen.

If you are, or were, in uniform, I thank you for your service. You would do well to show respect for those who served before you.

BAT_Boy


 
Re: Protecting the border

The powers that be don't want to protect our borders, they want votes.

IT was said today on teh news that the gov is going after alabama "For civil rights" potential violations but in reality it's because an election year is coming.
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BAT_Boy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I too spent a full tour in Korea. How many troops do we have on the DMZ? How close to the DMZ do you consider "on it"? I doubt if you know how many SMs we have in the BZ. Where was your Marine "buddy" stationed? Was he "on the DMZ"? I think not. Prep for a military conflict, with a well equipped, well trained, motivated, force-those with nuc's it quite a bit different from a handful of punks sneaking in, including those with AKs and a bag of dope. Anyone that actually spent time in Korea reads this post and shakes their heads.
_________________________
US ARMY, AVIATOR
NRA LIFE MEMBER


paw print, I can't speak for my Marine buddy but I was at Camp Humphries during the axe murders at the DMZ in August 1976. If you are aviation and in S. Korea, you may have heard of Camp Humphries. ASA occupied a small corner of Humphries. I clearly remember being on high alert, locked on post for 30 days, and B-52s coming over from Guam and Okinawa for a show of force. Had we been attacked and overrun, my duty was not to stand and fight but to go down shredding and burning documents. I vowed that when my service ended I would never be disarmed again.

Shake your head if you choose, but I was there. I doubt that you would call my friend Derek out to his face regarding his service. Avionics Gunny, but still a proud Marine.

By the way, my numbers were wrong. Apparently, troops have been reduced to 28,000 or so, instead of the 38,000 when Derek served, and 45,000 when I served. Point wasn't that all were on or near the DMZ. Point was that those serving in South Korea could be used effectively to protect our own border. But, we all KNOW, that is not a priority for our government or they would make it happen.

If you are, or were, in uniform, I thank you for your service. You would do well to show respect for those who served before you.

BAT_Boy
I did a full tour in the ROK, the earlier examples in this thread were done by those that have problems with the truth, and with numbers. Most SM in Korea are not on the DMZ, as has been put out (read the entire post-taking the number of TOTAL SM over the miles of U.S. Border etc.). I flew the entire country-52nd Avn. You assertion-at or near-what does that mean-is 50 miles near? is 100 miles near? Is Pusan near? If one goes with this fuzzy math, different that the earlier math, then are the troops at Ft. Bliss, "GUARDING THE BOARDER"?, how about DM, or FT. Huachuca? No, the numbers of troops "on the DMZ" do not reflect anything close to the orignal numbers, given in this post. Again I will put forth to those that have actually served in Korea, and are have been to more than one post in Korea, where are these 28,000 SM, are they within 5 miles of the DMZ, or even 5 miles of the BZ? I'll be happy to give you the answer up front, NO. Guarding our boarder with Mexico would not require anti tank weapons, tanks, AA, Arty, etc. Do you really believe we would need the same type of force to protect our lines in the south? I am not aware that the trash in Mexico that have no respect for American law, are now flying migs, have T72's, short range rockets, nucs etc. I will put to you we would not need anything at all like the force in Korea. If your Marine Buddy still believes we have 28,000 SM at or close to the DMZ, he is wrong. God bless him, but he would be way way off from the facts. Sorry, the argument, that we would need anywhere near the same numbers, and equipment etc. is just plain (*&())%$%^.


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Re: Protecting the border

I wonder if anyone here has considered that even illegal immigrants add immense value to our economy. Some even pay taxes. I can't say for sure that the net is positive but there's a substantial amount of evidence that it is. It's easy to look at only the "costs" side of the equation and conclude that illegal immigration is bad for our economy. What gets left out of the discussion is all of the benefits.

15% of the cost of employing you goes to social security (or so). Those working under fake (or someone else's) social security number are paying into the system, but they will never draw a cent. This is just one example of the way that immigrants add value. There are tons more.

The solution to the immigration problem should be just to figure out a way for us to profit from immigrants. We should look at it as a business opportunity instead of a detriment.
 
Re: Protecting the border

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dfarmer786</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we should just buy mexico and canada. Mex has some nice beaches </div></div>

Uh, we ain't for sale, but I hear some of the states may be 'parted out'. What do you figure yours is worth?

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