"PRS" actions vs "F-Class" actions

[DocRDS]

So I was doing my usual overreation research for long range as I was planning on joining some local F-class youths and it seems they have decided on an entirely different set of actions as their go-to: Kelby, BAT, and Borden.

The hide (which seems to be Tactical driven or more tactical style) has its list of Defiance, Zermatt, Impact, etc.. (Lookup PRS/NRL equipment list and its all Imapct, Zermatt, Defiance, etc...., plus just general consensus around here plus vendors and what they offer).

For the life of me I couldn't figure out what one set brings that the other doesn't---is this a tribal thing or are there differences lend themselves to certain styles of shooting? (Triggers and Barrels were all pretty much the same). I'm not off to rebuy all new equipment as I got stuff good enough to support me for a lot of growth (plus pre-fit barrels--I haven't seen a lot of those for the F-class actions, but then I also haven't been looking)--but this struck me as odd and maybe something I didn't understand.

PS apologies for calling the hide's group "PRS" actions, it just made it easier to name the group. We fully acknowledge that Frank was first and we occupy land taken from him the discipline he popularized with much effort

 

[Supersubes]

You could probably sum up the F class options as simply big benchrest actions. Single shot, tight clearances between bolt and receiver, etc.

 

[TheShooter]

PRS requires repeater actions. F-class requires single load. Because of this, F-class uses actions traditionally used in Bench rest and have things like right hand bolt with left side port. PRS tends to favor Remington 700 clones that eject away from your face and can be reloaded rapidly, like with magazines.

There is also a big difference in glass. F class wants MOA (usually 1/8) as it corresponds to the rings. PRS is all about mils And rapid adjustments.
A quality PRS rifle will not hold you back in F class. You won’t win nationals, but you can certainly win at any level below.

 

[OREGUN]

Longer tenon to support heavy, 30+” barrels, alternate bolt-loading port-eject port (drop port?) so maybe no ejector at all, stiffer action (larger diameter than R700 clone), single shot, coned bolt…more benchrest type features on an F-class action like a Borden. They are timed differently too…cock on open/close, firing pin spring strength, etc. designed to be SMOOTH with a light trigger and the fastest lock time available. On the barrel, no brake so usually no muzzle threads.

PRS action needs to run in the rain and dirt, needs to magazine feed with 100% reliability, ejects reliably, frankly, needs to be a r700 clone, and is usually timed differently…will tolerate a longer lock-time and a stiffer firing pin spring. Brake or suppressor.

You could be GENERALLY competitive in F-class with any good PRS action in an F-class stock but a fancy f-class action would not work in PRS.

 

[DocRDS]

Appreciate the insight fellas. I figured its a long time before I need anything specialized, but I'm always on the prowl for "Why do they do this..."

 

[CSTactical]

Longer tenon to support heavy, 30+” barrels, alternate bolt-loading port-eject port (drop port?) so maybe no ejector at all, stiffer action (larger diameter than R700 clone), single shot, coned bolt…more benchrest type features on an F-class action like a Borden. They are timed differently too…cock on open/close, firing pin spring strength, etc. designed to be SMOOTH with a light trigger and the fastest lock time available. On the barrel, no brake so usually no muzzle threads.

PRS action needs to run in the rain and dirt, needs to magazine feed with 100% reliability, ejects reliably, frankly, needs to be a r700 clone, and is usually timed differently…will tolerate a longer lock-time and a stiffer firing pin spring. Brake or suppressor.

You could be GENERALLY competitive in F-class with any good PRS action in an F-class stock but a fancy f-class action would not work in PRS.

Spot on! Some actions like Impact's for example were produced to allow it to be used in some filthy conditions that have locked up some other known brands. I tried to find the pics of everyone's gear after one of the Oklahoma matches that had everything covered in red clay, people wanted advice online about cleaning it off haha

 

[CShooter92]

Spot on! Some actions like Impact's for example were produced to allow it to be used in some filthy conditions that have locked up some other known brands. I tried to find the pics of everyone's gear after one of the Oklahoma matches that had everything covered in red clay, people wanted advice online about cleaning it off haha

Here ya go! This was after a couple hours in the Oklahoma wind. She was getting pretty sticky. I found out my rain cover doubles as a dust cover at that match.

 

[moosemeat]

I think most of it has been covered. Single shot actions with longer tennons. Some left load right eject. Alot of aluminum panda actions for weight and some believe that it absorbs some of the resonance. Only threaded barrels are for tuners. Those are just starting to catch on.
For scopes most of us shoot 32+ mag and 1/8th adjustments.
Shoot what you got. When you need to upgrade you will know. And shoot T/R with a 308 if you want the most challenge.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Many differences have already been discussed.

But you also have small things in the ignition system and such.


As an example of “does it matter” Alex Wheeler can’t make an impact shoot as well as he can a Borden. For many of the reasons state above and more.

Those differences are the reason a good Borden for F class is around $17-$1800 vs an average PRS action being $12-$1400.

And “competitive” is relative. You can take an AI-AT to a local mid range F class match and place well or win at times.

But you won’t take that AI or Impact to a national level 1k F open or 1k FTR match and be competitive long term.


This obviously doesn’t make anything “better” in general. Just different tools for different jobs. If impact or anyone else wanted to build F class or BR actions, they could easily do so as long as they have the right idea behind it.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

If you gave the mall ninja wantabe's in T/R or in PRS the actual gear that was used from WWI up through early 2000's used by US Army, Marine Corp, Russian Army, French Army or Czch Army as sniper rifles and DMR rifles they would complain that the gear was holding them back!

Obviously not everyone is like that but a vast majority of them are very much primadona! The industry is like a bunch of inbreed echo chambers to the point that a lot of guys think they must have the same gear to compete and win.

Instead of these sports being about shooters and skill they quickly devolve into an arms race! Again not saying that is true of everyone only that that is the dominate message propagated by the sports if that is their intentions or not.

Almost every new sport that comes out is quickly ruined by these types and these attitudes!

If I gave you an m24 and another guy if equal skill an impact in an mdt acc elite…..you’d get smoked at a PRS match.

Just the way things are. You have to give the people what they want. PRS itself didn’t decide that 25lb rifles are required. That’s where the majority of the shooters had more fun and kept coming back.

Leagues or matches with restrictions have far less participation.

So, if you want the participation to be as large as possible, the customer is always right.

Gear won’t replace skill, but it will give and edge when skill is equal.

 

[NiteQwill]

If you gave the mall ninja wantabe's in T/R or in PRS the actual gear that was used from WWI up through early 2000's used by US Army, Marine Corp, Russian Army, French Army or Czch Army as sniper rifles and DMR rifles they would complain that the gear was holding them back!

Obviously not everyone is like that but a vast majority of them are very much primadona! The industry is like a bunch of inbreed echo chambers to the point that a lot of guys think they must have the same gear to compete and win.

Instead of these sports being about shooters and skill they quickly devolve into an arms race! Again not saying that is true of everyone only that that is the dominate message propagated by the sports if that is their intentions or not.

Almost every new sport that comes out is quickly ruined by these types and these attitudes!

Something says you have never shot a PRS match I wonder what it is...

 

[Cfshooter]

If I gave you an m24 and another guy if equal skill an impact in an mdt acc elite…..you’d get smoked at a PRS match.

Just the way things are. You have to give the people what they want. PRS itself didn’t decide that 25lb rifles are required. That’s where the majority of the shooters had more fun and kept coming back.

Leagues or matches with restrictions have far less participation.

So, if you want the participation to be as large as possible, the customer is always right.

Gear won’t replace skill, but it will give and edge when skill is equal.

as much as I dislike it lol, this is true.

 

[reelserious]

lots of good answers in this thread. I shoot a bunch with F class guys at 600 yards. They all love the march 60x and 80x with 1/8 moa scopes with their f class actions. And they go crazy when a PRS guy shows up with a muzzle brake.

 

[Cfshooter]

lots of good answers in this thread. I shoot a bunch with F class guys at 600 yards. They all love the march 60x and 80x with 1/8 moa scopes with their f class actions. And they go crazy when a PRS guy shows up with a muzzle brake.

brakes drive me nuts too, when shooting on a line, they rock you lol. Not so much an issue in PRS match as one person shooting at a time most times, unlike F class when the entire line is firing.

 

[lash]

It is total BS. It does not matter. Just like if you look at the winners circle gear for BR, PRS, F-Class, Silhouette and X-Course you will see completly different preference for actions and barrel makers!



To be honest the one thing I loath most about this site is all the mall ninja's that want to play pretend military or LEO sniper! It is like the fat kid that pretends to be a Jedi Knight or a Dungeons and Dragons Ranger.


PRS biggest concern is can it take a big detable magazine and run reliably with said big tacti-cool magazine!

Who dug you up out of your cave and pissed in your coffee? Did you know that before all you cretins decided to cheat and use firearms, that real men shot their meat using God’s weapons, bows and arrows. Occasionally they resorted to a spear if needed.

I’d say, “Okay Boomer.”, but no sense insulting the rest of us.

Thanks for the laugh though. I find that laughter in the morning is the best medicine against ornery old farts that can’t sleep at night.

Back to the subject at hand

It reads to me like the OP has his answers pretty much already, but I’d like to clarify regarding the comment that all PRS/tactical rifles are using R700 clone actions. I’ll just use ARC and AI as examples to the contrary. Admittedly, these are currently not the majority of action styles used, but Ted is certainly doing his part to change that.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It is total BS. It does not matter. Just like if you look at the winners circle gear for BR, PRS, F-Class, Silhouette and X-Course you will see completly different preference for actions and barrel makers!



To be honest the one thing I loath most about this site is all the mall ninja's that want to play pretend military or LEO sniper! It is like the fat kid that pretends to be a Jedi Knight or a Dungeons and Dragons Ranger.


PRS biggest concern is can it take a big detable magazine and run reliably with said big tacti-cool magazine!

If you loathe this site and it's occupants so much, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[lash]

If you loathe this site and it's occupants so much, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

This.

 

[moosemeat]

Fclassparadise- why just PRS and F T/R? What about the full retards in F Open? Or Benchrest? Mall Ninjas in T/R... We shoot with shittier gear than the Open dudes. Our shit is closer to the shit you described than the open boys. It's a game. People are gonna game it. This is from a dude who shoots a box stock Fn SPR in 308 in T/R, deer hunting, coyote hunting, "Sniper Matches" and Any Any matches.
I understand that people want to try to buy wins. It doesn't mean you HAVE to. If you wanna shoot F- Open with your 03A3 and PRS with your straight pull go for it. I only shoot matches to become a better shooter. By the way I'm also a 300 pound fat ass. Probably shouldn't be allowed to shoot cause I don't bench 300 and have 100+ bow kills. You do concrete work?

 

[DocRDS]

Well at least we got enteretained by the drunken necro-posting rants.

I'd be interested to have @Rio Precision Gunwerks expand (if you have time) on the Alex Borden as to what the differences were (again, I don't doubt it--just trying to learn more).

And the OG data that prompted this--I saw Defiance and was thinking I should see more "Action" style actions like Impact, Bighorn, ARC like you see in PRS "What the pro's use":

P.S. Yes that is Savage as #2 in FT-R. That oughta cause some wailing and gnashing of teethm along with some poors going "told ya".

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Well at least we got enteretained by the drunken necro-posting rants.

I'd be interested to have @Rio Precision Gunwerks expand (if you have time) on the Alex Borden as to what the differences were (again, I don't doubt it--just trying to learn more).

And the OG data that prompted this--I saw Defiance and was thinking I should see more "Action" style actions like Impact, Bighorn, ARC like you see in PRS "What the pro's use":
View attachment 8068542

P.S. Yes that is Savage as #2 in FT-R. That oughta cause some wailing and gnashing of teethm along with some poors going "told ya".

I'm definitely no expert on F and BR actions. The Wheeler example is real life example as I know of at least one person who sent him an impact and he gave them the "bad" news.

It basically comes down to a more consistent striking of the primer and such. Things you'd never be able to exploit without something like a NEO front rest or better.

 

[lte82]

What’s “competitive at f class nationals” mean? Placing in the top 1/3? If that’s the case then 2/3 of the nationals shooters aren’t even competitive with their benchrest actions.

Guarantee an Impact/Foundation/NF 7-35 shooting a br, x47, or similar can and will be able to shoot 200s and win matches if the shooter is good at reading wind and chasing a spotter.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

What’s “competitive at f class nationals” mean? Placing in the top 1/3? If that’s the case then 2/3 of the nationals shooters aren’t even competitive with their benchrest actions.

Guarantee an Impact/Foundation/NF 7-35 shooting a br, x47, or similar can and will be able to shoot 200s and win matches if the shooter is good at reading wind and chasing a spotter.

I think too many people think competitive F class is chasing a spotter. There's much more to it at the top levels. You'd also be limited by an optic that isn't 1/8 moa or .05 mil.

And of course most people aren't competitive with any equipment. That's just how it goes no matter the game.

If you give two evenly skilled PRS shooters an m24 and a tricked out pick your poison gamer rifle, the m24 wouldn't be competitive. This is no different.

 

[NewsShooter]

If you gave the mall ninja wantabe's in T/R or in PRS the actual gear that was used from WWI up through early 2000's used by US Army, Marine Corp, Russian Army, French Army or Czch Army as sniper rifles and DMR rifles they would complain that the gear was holding them back!

Obviously not everyone is like that but a vast majority of them are very much primadona! The industry is like a bunch of inbreed echo chambers to the point that a lot of guys think they must have the same gear to compete and win.

Instead of these sports being about shooters and skill they quickly devolve into an arms race! Again not saying that is true of everyone only that that is the dominate message propagated by the sports if that is their intentions or not.

Almost every new sport that comes out is quickly ruined by these types and these attitudes!

That's funny, the PRS type club I shoot with the will also shoot some local F class matches for wind practice. We do just fine against the "F class shooters". The PRS type club shooters will usually do pretty well overall against F Class regulars with just a bipod and rear bag. Of course our paper targets for the 1000 yard range are a lot smaller.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'm definitely no expert on F and BR actions. The Wheeler example is real life example as I know of at least one person who sent him an impact and he gave them the "bad" news.

It basically comes down to a more consistent striking of the primer and such. Things you'd never be able to exploit without something like a NEO front rest or better.

Dave?

 

[Haney]

If you gave the mall ninja wantabe's in T/R or in PRS the actual gear that was used from WWI up through early 2000's used by US Army, Marine Corp, Russian Army, French Army or Czch Army as sniper rifles and DMR rifles they would complain that the gear was holding them back!

Obviously not everyone is like that but a vast majority of them are very much primadona! The industry is like a bunch of inbreed echo chambers to the point that a lot of guys think they must have the same gear to compete and win.

Instead of these sports being about shooters and skill they quickly devolve into an arms race! Again not saying that is true of everyone only that that is the dominate message propagated by the sports if that is their intentions or not.

Almost every new sport that comes out is quickly ruined by these types and these attitudes!

You would be better off to shut your mouth , your lack of experience with shooting and alcohol shines bright .