PRS Limiting MDs to Only 4 Matches Per Year?

[lash]

MDs are being limited to only 4 matches per year for PRS in 2024.

Rumor has it that K&M is not filling all of their matches this year, 2023. Anyone think that the two are connected? Or just sheer coincidence?

 

[Stuey]

Is that just two day matches or 4 PRS matches per location?

 

[ma smith]

+1 Context would help.

 

[308pirate]

MDs are being limited to only 4 matches per year for PRS in 2024.

Rumor has it that K&M is not filling all of their matches this year, 2023. Anyone think that the two are connected? Or just sheer coincidence?

LOL

 

[lash]

Is that just two day matches or 4 PRS matches per location?

4 PRS matches per year is my understanding.

 

[M4orturnate]

So mkm will have 2 2 days and 2 one days? I dont see that happening unless outlaw matches are going to be making a comeback

 

[lash]

So mkm will have 2 2 days and 2 one days? I dont see that happening unless outlaw matches are going to be making a comeback

That was kinda my thought.

 

[M4orturnate]

That was kinda my thou

Thats a lot of money a lot of ranges would lose

 

[Sheldon N]

Any source for this? I checked with a local MD and they are planning more than 4 matches this year. Our new regional director runs a monthly club match at his range, and many other of our MD's run more than 4 per year. It's less than a month after the finale and we've already had 3 PRS regional points matches so far.

I could see this being a thing for Pro Series matches where there are a limited number of slots available and they try not to have matches on the same weekend, but definitely would not make sense for club matches.

 

[lash]

I do not have the source for this honestly. It came from a friend who runs our local centerfire PRS matches and was grumbling that he was being limited to 4 matches instead of the 6 matches per year he normally runs. And we currently don’t run any two day matches here.

I was hoping that someone that does know could shed some light on this. Trying to shake out the truth so to speak.

 

[Sheldon N]

Could possibly be a regional decision, perhaps limited space on the calendar and more MD's who want to run matches. I suspect that would be something a regional director would handle.

 

[lash]

Could possibly be a regional decision, perhaps limited space on the calendar and more MD's who want to run matches. I suspect that would be something a regional director would handle.

If so, then it makes total sense. Guess which region K&M is in?

You think local PRS matches hel in central and south Florida are affecting attendance in Tennessee? I don’t. I do however think that it will encourage MDs to run more outlaw matches. I don’t think this is going to turn out like they want it to.

 

[M4orturnate]

If so, then it makes total sense. Guess which region K&M is in?

You think local PRS matches hel in central and south Florida are affecting attendance in Tennessee? I don’t. I do however think that it will encourage MDs to run more outlaw matches. I don’t think this is going to turn out like they want it to.

I doubt k&m would bitch about that. Pretty sure most of the money there comes from places other than prs matches. Its way too nice of a place to pay for with a handful of matches every year

 

[lash]

I doubt k&m would bitch about that. Pretty sure most of the money there comes from places other than prs matches. Its way too nice of a place to pay for with a handful of matches every year

You may well be correct. I know that they do a brisk military and LE business.

I still do wonder about the wisdom and reasoning behind this. Am certainly interested in hearing from someone who knows and can shed some light on that.

 

[M4orturnate]

You may well be correct. I know that they do a brisk military and LE business.

I still do wonder about the wisdom and reasoning behind this. Am certainly interested in hearing from someone who knows and can shed some light on that.

If you figure it out post it up. If i remember ill inquire tomorrow.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Just assuming this is correct (fair chance it isn't)......

The likely reason is that it's very easy for someone to completely dominate a single club. Let's say shooter A shoots at club X. Shooter B shooters at club Y.

Shooter B is a better shooter than A, but club X is much easier. Shooter A wins three matches and goes into regional finale with 300pts. Shooter B was top 5 mostly in his much harder club and might not even stand a chance to win the regional championship with his season total. Even though Shooter B's top 5's were much harder than Shooter A's wins.

Obviously clubs can run as many matches as they want. But if true, would only be able to submit four matches for PRS points.



The end result is a possibly more fair regional point series, as well as encouraging shooters to shoot outside their local club more. Since it's very likely they will need to shoot more than 4 matches for a good season score.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

PRS Rimfire is a textbook example. Rimfire is objectively easier than centerfire. And there are many more rimfire clubs (much easier to run rimfire matches at small ranges). So, you end up with many, many shooters who crushed their local matches for 300pts.

Going into the season finale, if you don't have 300pts, and your goal is to possibly win the series, you should just stay home and not pay for the travel. As it's almost mathematically impossible for you to overcome those with 300pts.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Thinking on it a bit more......I doubt many clubs have a substantial amount of shooters who wouldn't show up for a match because the points aren't sent to PRS.

 

[Stuey]

Ours has a couple of club matches that do not count for PRS points. We usually get about 20 to 25 shooter’s. At those matches I get to make it in the top 10 as compared to our PRS matches.

 

[BurtG]

Shannon Kay strikes again

 

[lash]

I used to run many of the CF matches here, including some of the first PRS matches held. I’ve since just focused on the .22 matches. I might be tempted to run an outlaw match or two just to do some things that are verboten in PRS, like real or modified KYL stages that require a person to actually choose or pay the consequences.

Or hostage stages where you actually lose points by hitting the hostage, like it should be. You take a bad shot, it costs you.

Or actual unknown distance stages where people are not allowed to use rangefinders. Though I admit that would be hard to do these days with everyone having a rangefinder in their pack.

 

[kindabitey]

@lash The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.

 

[kindabitey]

Shannon Kay strikes again

Probably not since he's only in an advisory position. Ken Wheeler took over the PRS earlier this year. Shannon will only be around long enough to get all his money.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I used to run many of the CF matches here, including some of the first PRS matches held. I’ve since just focused on the .22 matches. I might be tempted to run an outlaw match or two just to do some things that are verboten in PRS, like real or modified KYL stages that require a person to actually choose or pay the consequences.

Or hostage stages where you actually lose points by hitting the hostage, like it should be. You take a bad shot, it costs you.

Or actual unknown distance stages where people are not allowed to use rangefinders. Though I admit that would be hard to do these days with everyone having a rangefinder in their pack.

The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.

 

[Geno C.]

The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.

Having an ego bigger than your skill should be penalized.

 

[Geno C.]

@lash The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.

Doesn’t have to be true. We did a 22 match in northern Illinois that had an ukd stage and you were dq’d if you shared the info with anyone.

 

[lash]

The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.

I don’t disagree and am neither bitching about PRS nor suggesting that anyone should change. Nor do I think that’s what everyone wants. But change and difference can be refreshing now and then.

 

[Lightning8]

Quick calendar check shows that K&M has 4 Regional (1 day) PRS matches in 2024 plus 2 Pro (2 day) PRS matches in 2024.

 

[Lightning8]

If PRS limits ranges on number of PRS events - then the ranges should be free to offer NRL, Quantified Performance, or other events.

 

[lash]

Quick calendar check shows that K&M has 4 Regional (1 day) PRS matches in 2024 plus 2 Pro (2 day) PRS matches in 2024.

That sounds about right.

 

[J_D]

Doesn’t have to be true. We did a 22 match in northern Illinois that had an ukd stage and you were dq’d if you shared the info with anyone.

We had UKD rimfire matches and here and I despise those......people cheated and if it was your first stage......you got hosed. PRS shouldn't be about luck of the draw and gamer stages.....I like it at 1 point per impact.

 

[lash]

We had UKD rimfire matches and here and I despise those......people cheated and if it was your first stage......you got hosed. PRS shouldn't be about luck of the draw and gamer stages.....I like it at 1 point per impact.

Yeah, I agree. It’s kinda sad that PRS developed to help hide the cheating so that it’s not obvious.

It didn’t used to be that way. But since people suck, I did say that it would be difficult to do these days.

Anyway, you have the good fortune of having that option.

 

[Here2Learn]

MDs are being limited to only 4 matches per year for PRS in 2024.

Rumor has it that K&M is not filling all of their matches this year, 2023. Anyone think that the two are connected? Or just sheer coincidence?

You don't know what you are talking about. You are wrong as well…

 

[lash]

You don't know what you are talking about. You are wrong as well…

I believe I said as much and was looking for more information. Thanks for being a dick though, I’m not wrong about that.

And I don’t mind being wrong. Not one bit.

 

[lash]

You don't know what you are talking about. You are wrong as well…

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask. Do you have actual information to back up that assertion or just being a dick? I’d actually love to see some factual information. That would be helpful.

 

[Here2Learn]

I believe I said as much and was looking for more information. Thanks for being a dick though, I’m not wrong about that.

And I don’t mind being wrong. Not one bit.

No need to name call. I was simply letting you know you had bad information.

 

[Mormegil87]

Better worded above

 

[lash]

No need to name call. I was simply letting you know you had bad information.

Okay. Do you have the real scoop then and a source? Because that’s what I’ve heard and the four regular matches by K&M seems to support that.

 

[Mormegil87]

It is not a PRS wide policy.

 

[lash]

But it does exist then? Are you going to spoon feed it or offer a full explanation?

Just the southeast region? Just the East? Reason?

You do realize that without factual information, rumors get started. That’s what this thread was started in order to illustrate. Keeping members informed just makes sense.

 

[Mormegil87]

I can say with 100% certainty it is not a PRS wide policy as of an hour ago.

It is a decision for a region. If you want more details, contact your MD buddy or the regional director and ask, rather than hopping on the hide.

 

[lash]

I can say with 100% certainty it is not a PRS wide policy as of an hour ago.

It is a decision for a region. If you want more details, contact your MD buddy or the regional director and ask, rather than hopping on the hide.

Or maybe the PRS regional management should communicate with their members. Making it so that people find out by word of mouth or forcing them to make special efforts to find out facts is stupid. Maybe you don’t get that.

Hopping on the Hide was to get someone to open up. What we have so far is a smattering of information and then we get to fill in the blanks.

How is that so hard to get? As one person, I could do a whole bunch of scrounging around for the full story and likely would get the same dancing around the subject that I’ve gotten so far.

That might satisfy me, but what about everyone else that catches wind of it?

Is this some super secret thing that must be held close to the vest? That’s how it sounds so far.

I’m doing the communicating that those that should be aren’t doing. If I get it wrong, then that’s on you and PRS regional management.

 

[Here2Learn]

But it does exist then? Are you going to spoon feed it or offer a full explanation?

Just the southeast region? Just the East? Reason?

You do realize that without factual information, rumors get started. That’s what this thread was started in order to illustrate. Keeping members informed just makes sense.

as it pertains to the southeast there is no 4 match cap. MDs start by submitting 4 matches they want to be affiliated with the PRS and we go from there. A MD can hold as many matches as they want, but the PRS tries to balance shooter demand within a region. if a facility runs 20 matches a year, it doesn’t make sense for them to all be PRS affiliated matches. More than likely they would have minimum attendance.

 

[Mormegil87]

It's on me? I'm not PRS Regional management. I'm just a guy with connections that had some info pass along.

There are a number of reasons that info hasn't been put out. Maybe they are still finalizing details of the policy? Maybe they are solidifying schedules first, so they can release it all at once rather than piecemeal. It's possible that the 4 matches is just a starting point as here2learn posted above.

As a shooter, I don't need to know if a 4 match policy is in place or not. I just need to look at the schedule and see how many I can make it to.

 

[lash]

as it pertains to the southeast there is no 4 match cap. MDs start by submitting 4 matches they want to be affiliated with the PRS and we go from there. A MD can hold as many matches as they want, but the PRS tries to balance shooter demand within a region. if a facility runs 20 matches a year, it doesn’t make sense for them to all be PRS affiliated matches. More than likely they would have minimum attendance.

Ah, so we’re getting somewhere. So that’s a change from the previous 2023 season then.

Let’s say though for arguments sake that a club has been running 6 matches per season, and gets full attendance at them all, which has been quite normal in the region for the past three/four years. That’s a bit different than the sorta extreme examples you used. But I get it.

This is to try and get larger attendance numbers at each match in the southeast region, right? Yes? No?

Nothing to do with falling attendance at some larger matches?

 

[lash]

It's on me? I'm not PRS Regional management. I'm just a guy with connections that had some info pass along.

There are a number of reasons that info hasn't been put out. Maybe they are still finalizing details of the policy? Maybe they are solidifying schedules first, so they can release it all at once rather than piecemeal. It's possible that the 4 matches is just a starting point as here2learn posted above.

As a shooter, I don't need to know if a 4 match policy is in place or not. I just need to look at the schedule and see how many I can make it to.

I know, I know. I should just be a good little member and toe the line and keep my thoughts and questions to myself. Not stir the pot. Don’t worry about the things I’m not supposed to worry about.

Just sign up and spend my money. Don’t concern myself about the man behind the curtain sorta thing, right?

Gotcha.

 

[Mormegil87]

Or have a little patience or as suggested maybe contact your regional director.

You made a statement. You didnt ask if the PRS was limiting the number of matches a range could hold. You made and posted an assumption that it was because K&M wasn't filling 2023 matches, despite both the Kahles PRC and GAP Grind both sold out. It would appear, that you came here first, to stir the pot.

 

[lash]

Or have a little patience or as suggested maybe contact your regional director.

You made a statement. You didnt ask if the PRS was limiting the number of matches a range could hold. You made and posted an assumption that it was because K&M wasn't filling 2023 matches, despite both the Kahles PRC and GAP Grind both sold out. It would appear, that you came here first, to stir the pot.

Okay, you convinced me. I’ll wait in line for my ration of information…

 

[Mormegil87]

Okay, you convinced me. I’ll wait in line for my ration of information…

Why not contact your regional director and get a direct answer? It's seems to me like a pretty reasonable suggestion.

 

[Here2Learn]

Ah, so we’re getting somewhere. So that’s a change from the previous 2023 season then.

Let’s say though for arguments sake that a club has been running 6 matches per season, and gets full attendance at them all, which has been quite normal in the region for the past three/four years. That’s a bit different than the sorta extreme examples you used. But I get it.

This is to try and get larger attendance numbers at each match in the southeast region, right? Yes? No?

Nothing to do with falling attendance at some larger matches?

Ah, so we’re getting somewhere. So that’s a change from the previous 2023 season then.

Let’s say though for arguments sake that a club has been running 6 matches per season, and gets full attendance at them all, which has been quite normal in the region for the past three/four years. That’s a bit different than the sorta extreme examples you used. But I get it.

This is to try and get larger attendance numbers at each match in the southeast region, right? Yes? No?

Nothing to do with falling attendance at some larger matches?

I sent a pm. Check it when you have time.