PRS Rifle Build

[Tony1320]

I'm planning out a PRS build but I need some input on a few things

Which action would you use? I'm looking for a very smooth running action with good ergonomics and reliable feeding and extraction.

Defiance Deviant
Borden Mountaineer
Bighorn TL3
Lone Peak Fuzion

Which DBM and Magazines would you use? It's very import to me to have reliable feeding. I'll be using Berger 140gr Hybrids

Which reamer print would you use?

Stock will be a McMillan A5 in Woodland Carbon Ambush

Barrel will be a Bartlein Heavy Palma in 6.5x47

Jewell HVR trigger

APA Fat Bastard or Insite Arms Heathen muzzle brake

 

[Tazman]

I got a MPA full build on a Surgeon action in 6.5 SAUM 4s. It's a hammer and loves the 140 Bergers.

 

[Ledzep]

Bighorn TL3 or American Rifle Co. M5 Mausingfield for action, IMO the two best options out there.

DBM, PTG, or Badger set up for AICS magazines. Magazines I like American Rifle Co. The DBM itself isn't as important as how it's set up. Improperly installed/fitted, you'll be modifying magazines to work, which is the backwards approach.

Reamer, the longest freebore that lets you seat to a C.O.A.L. of about 2.875". I don't know if that's even possible in a 6.5x47 because the case is pretty short, so I guess whatever lets you seat the bullets far out, but with 0.100" or so of room to chase lands. Maximize case volume and allow you to chase lands, that's the main points.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Any of those actions are going to be good to go. Surgeon is also boringly reliable, especially in dusty conditions.

I would get the KMW bottom metal unit. Anything Terry does is going to be very well thought out and reliable.

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

I personally would take the Lone Peak, BUT they are all very close. I like the TL3 as well. I have no experience with the Mausingfield.
To me the Lone Peak behaves like a Defiance but with a lighter bolt lift, and the Bighorn simply has a bunch of fun features that make it such a great value.
I would give the Impact Precision 737r a look too. Ive been meaning to pick one up ut has been getting nothing but amazing feedback, very tough, very reliable, smooth etc...
As far as bottom metal goes ive never had any issues with any of the notable brands. As long as it's built up right.

 

[Jimmy31593]

Might be worth it for you to consult with whomever you are having build the rifle. Usually builders have specific parts that they favor.

 

[B-P-UU]

I personally would take the Lone Peak, BUT they are all very close. I like the TL3 as well. I have no experience with the Mausingfield.
To me the Lone Peak behaves like a Defiance but with a lighter bolt lift, and the Bighorn simply has a bunch of fun features that make it such a great value.
I would give the Impact Precision 737r a look too. Ive been meaning to pick one up ut has been getting nothing but amazing feedback, very tough, very reliable, smooth etc...
As far as bottom metal goes ive never had any issues with any of the notable brands. As long as it's built up right.

This is a pretty darn good summary.. I'm moving from a TL-3 for a match action to a LP Fuzion. It was between LP and an Impact to be honest. Bolt manipulation ergos are great on both. TL3 is a really good action and I'm happy to have it for a hunting/backup match rifle switch barrel moving forward. There were a few things i didnt care for in a dedicated match action but nothing major.. just lots of good options out there.

Going with Hawkins BM as well.

 

[LRI]

600 rounds. Action; ARC Mausingfield. Action tore down to base components and first washed in mineral spirits. Then soaked in methanol. All traces of lubrication removed.

Fire forming 6mm Comp Match brass. 42G 4895, 105 hornady bullet. .004" crush fit during fire forming (false shoulder method). Watercooled rifle barrel. Fresh chamber. In 600 rounds we eroded the throat approximately 1/4 inch. This was done on a 12-15 round per minute cadence.

Not one galled lug. Not one failure to fire. Not one issue during extraction. I preach about these actions for a reason. They flat out work and put up with abuse like no other.

Judge for yourself:

https://www.facebook.com/405264722901625/videos/776948215733272/

https://www.facebook.com/405264722901625/videos/776955732399187/

 

[Barney88PDC]

Surgeon 591R and Surgeon bottom metal. In a Bartlein put 37.0 Varget under that 140 Hybrid and I'd bet a large sum it will shoot.

 

[Tony1320]

Sounds like I wouldn't go wrong with any of the actions. I'd really like more info on the Borden but they aren't very common in the PRS world. Glad to hear I shouldn't have any feeding issues with the 140 Hybrids.

No one knows what reamer print is being used for 6.5x47?

 

[Barney88PDC]

Pick one with about 0.135" of Freebore.

 

[arm017]

The TL3 is absolutely phenomenal, and the most feature rich in my opinion. Many guys are using it as part of a near switch barrel set up. Many smiths are happy to spin up a barrel with out seeing the action which hold quite a bit of value to me.

 

[6point5CM]

I know it's not on your list but if was building a dedicated match rifle again, I'd do it on a Curtis action.

 

[JumpJim]

Spartan Precision rifles in San Jose have just started shipping their new custom DBM bottom metal.....looks tidy...

 

[Tony1320]

So I've narrowed it down to a Defiance Elite / Deviant or a Surgeon 591

I've read Defiance has issues binding up in dusty and dirty conditions

I've read Surgeon is extremely reliable and will run in any condition but may be having quality control issues lately.

A big plus for the Defiance for me is they are polished stainless I just love the look

A plus on the Surgeon is I've read the bolt lift is lighter than the Defiance. I love a light, smooth bolt.

If anyone has experience with both could chime in to help with my decision that would be great

Thanks

 

[Terry Cross]

Tony, the Defiance actions were used by something like 40% of the top finishers at this year's PRS Finale. That was at a location in Oklahoma with a ton of red dust and crud flying. Defiance can deliver actions that run in bad conditions. Defiance supplies all of my actions with over 3/4 of the finished rifles going to L.E. agencies.

Spec the action out properly and then make sure to keep your overall bolt handle length reasonable. You will have a solid performer.

./

 

[Tony1320]

Tony, the Defiance actions were used by something like 40% of the top finishers at this year's PRS Finale. That was at a location in Oklahoma with a ton of red dust and crud flying. Defiance can deliver actions that run in bad conditions. Defiance supplies all of my actions with over 3/4 of the finished rifles going to L.E. agencies.

Spec the action out properly and then make sure to keep your overall bolt handle length reasonable. You will have a solid performer.

./

Thanks for chiming in Terry, your name actually came up a few times when I was asking around about my build and above in this thread. I'll be using one of your dbms.

Good to know about the field conditions at the finale. I did see there were 4 Defiances in the top 10 finale.

What do you mean spec out my action properly should i be asking for something specific when i order it other than my bolt configuration? The bolt handle will be left however it comes from Defiançe

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Thanks for chiming in Terry, your name actually came up a few times when I was asking around about my build and above in this thread. I'll be using one of your dbms.

Good to know about the field conditions at the finale. I did see there were 4 Defiances in the top 10 finale.

What do you mean spec out my action properly should i be asking for something specific when i order it other than my bolt configuration? The bolt handle will be left however it comes from Defiançe

Basically, Defiance makes a ton of actions that are spec'd out to different companies. They can make the bolt-body to receiver clearance Benchrest tight, or leave a little room for dust to work it's way in, or add even more clearance if you plan on using Cerakote.

The Defiance actions that are nitride coated are pretty slick.

 

[Tony1320]

Basically, Defiance makes a ton of actions that are spec'd out to different companies. They can make the bolt-body to receiver clearance Benchrest tight, or leave a little room for dust to work it's way in, or add even more clearance if you plan on using Cerakote.

The Defiance actions that are nitride coated are pretty slick.

Oh I didn't know that so when I order it I can ask for a little extra clearance and be good to go?

 

[Barney88PDC]

Either product is top tier. Surgeons just flat out work. If we are talking PRS Finale a Surgeon 6.5x47 won. I shot the match too and my action ran flawlessly all year. Hell I currently have multiple Surgeon actions and have sold others to friends who still run them and I've never once had any issue. I have shot in over 100 matches PRS and PRS club style matches and have never had 1 single action related issue.

If you are interested in buying a Surgeon I can help you out on price direct from Surgeon. I've had 2 different Defiance actions as well and my preference is Surgeon. I prefer the straight bolt handle and IMO they have an easier bolt lift. However both are top tier products and you really cannot go wrong either way. I would however choose an action with an integral rail and lug. I've had rails come loose, one R700 and 1 Defiance and an integral lug makes swapping barrels a breeze. I even had blue lock tight on the base screws and it still came loose.

 

[Ledzep]

Defiances are slick enough, and now that they offer bolt bodies with smaller diameters than the receiver bore they do perform much better in dust. That said, they're relatively soft stainless steel and they do gall. This particular action is one that I took the time to take pictures of, but I've seen this with more than one defiance. Nitriding or DLC will help with surface hardness/wear (Not even going to get into the safety of nitriding thin 416 stainless parts, again), and I can't speak to the lube history of this rifle, but I do know it was in for rebarrel after about 1200 rounds from new when I took these pictures.

Not saying they're all guaranteed to eat themselves, or that the damage will get worse than this or that this is a show stopper, even, but it is unnerving to me, and the reason why I typically look towards Bighorn for stainless actions (40-45 HRC vs. 30-35 of Defiances w/416 stainless) or Mausingfields (50ish HRC, chrome moly, very wear/gall resistant, tough material). I wouldn't consider Defiance, personally, unless I had some sort of surface treatment in mind (DLC most likely). IMHO, YMMV, to each his own, etc...

 

[Tony1320]

Thankyou very much for the info guys. I think I will go with the Surgeon just so happens the gunsmith has a Surgeon and a Manners T4a Elite in stock. I did want to go with a McMillan A5 Carbon ambush but its not a deal breaker.

Barney thanks for the offer but Im in Canada and the smith has one on the shelf ready if I want it unless you still think you can help out let me know. Very much appreciate the offer and you sharing your personal experience

 

[V-Ref]

Defiances are slick enough, and now that they offer bolt bodies with smaller diameters than the receiver bore they do perform much better in dust. That said, they're relatively soft stainless steel and they do gall. This particular action is one that I took the time to take pictures of, but I've seen this with more than one defiance. Nitriding or DLC will help with surface hardness/wear (Not even going to get into the safety of nitriding thin 416 stainless parts, again), and I can't speak to the lube history of this rifle, but I do know it was in for rebarrel after about 1200 rounds from new when I took these pictures.

Not saying they're all guaranteed to eat themselves, or that the damage will get worse than this or that this is a show stopper, even, but it is unnerving to me, and the reason why I typically look towards Bighorn for stainless actions (40-45 HRC vs. 30-35 of Defiances w/416 stainless) or Mausingfields (50ish HRC, chrome moly, very wear/gall resistant, tough material). I wouldn't consider Defiance, personally, unless I had some sort of surface treatment in mind (DLC most likely). IMHO, YMMV, to each his own, etc...

What was the response from Defiance after you told them of your experience

 

[Ledzep]

Not my action-- I doubt they were ever contacted. It was for a customer and they weren't concerned about it. The bolt still cycled smooth enough and it's not a safety concern, headspace wasn't affected, just galled a couple rings in lug abutment. The bolts are chromemoly and it wasn't affected. That's why I say it's not necessarily a show stopper, but there definitely is room for it to get ugly. My concern would be longevity. Just my guess, but I think eventually you'd get to a point where bolt lift was gnarly hard and you'd have to clean up some surfaces. You can only do that so many times before you run out of (safe) material.

 

[CShooter92]

Hey Tony1320, I just sent you a PM about this build.

 

[Hunt]

Regarding the galling and the pics of the Defiance, there are many variables to this:

1) Was the owner of the Defiance neck sizing only which created lug resistance when closing the bolt?
2) Was the bolt ran dry with no lube on lugs?
3) Were lugs ever cleaned or left dirty?

Given a ham-fisted user and one not wanting to perform maintenance, sure there will be issues.

I have Borden (Alpine), Surgeon, trued Remington and a Defiance on the way. The Borden is probably the smoothest action I own followed by the Surgeon. My Surgeon's bolt is NP3 coated which makes for a slick bolt. The Borden's tolerances are much tighter which is not what I would prefer on a bolt for field use. One thing is common b/t them is I keep the lugs clean and grease on the lugs.