PRS Talk PRS Safety Culture

[Wormydog1724]

Here's my long-NEWB-to-precision-rifle-hot-take on Safety... Skip to the end for the summary.

Coming from a 3 Gun background, I feel like the 3 gunners get a bad rap for being 'wild' and 'unsafe'. When I shot at the OKC Gun Club from 2009 to 2014-ish, the 3 Gun matches had to share the same range as the Cowboy Action shooters. Of course a bunch of vest wearing, chap sporting, cowboy hat adjusting old timers gave us 3 gunners shit for shooting too fast and unsafe. In my entire shooting time there, a little over 5 years, I saw a handful of safety violations and they were all dealt with, be it from a newb or a veteran shooter. Hell one of the godfathers of 3 gun had a shotgun ND while unloading and blew a 2x4 all to shit. He packed up and helped reset and keep score for the rest of the day.

Now, I shoot 3 gun at a relatively new range with relatively new shooters in the Kansas area, heh.. Safety is ALWAYS #1 on my mind. I don't want to get shot and I don't want to see anyone get shot. So when I called "STOP" to a shooter at my third ever match there, I was surprised not everyone was willing to back it. The shooter thought he had a squib in his 9mm 2011. What precipitated the "STOP" call was when he dropped his mag, somehow fumble fucked his pistol around so it was pointed at his own belly so he could rack the slide back and proceed to look down the barrel for a squib. The GDMF'r said "It's unloaded!" and pleaded his case to the RO/MD (I wasn't RO or scorekeeper, just a fellow competitor that didn't want to see someone commit involuntary suicide in front of me). I couldn't believe they (everyone present) were so nonchalant about it and at first they didn't think he had done anything wrong. He got very butthurt, loaded his shit up and left. Which honestly was fine by me because the GDMF'r hadn't helped tape or reset any of the stages all day! He showed up for one other 3 gun match and loaded his pistol before the RO had instructed and asked to leave that day as well because again he was a worthless slug that didn't help do anything, as far as I know, he hasn't been back. Once the gravity of the situation set in after that first f-up, the RO/MD has fixed his self and the other people that help and the matches are ran great and safe.

NOW..... All of that to say that, I feel like I saw and stopped something that could have gone horribly wrong and everyone at that club has learned from it. I am not afraid to speak up if I feel something is about to happen. The worst that could happen is they have to reshoot. If they don't have enough ammo for a reshoot, then I guess that would suck but I haven't seen that happen yet.

 

[lclement]

I attended the NRL Big Horn in Nebraska and i can say i did not see any safety issues there during those 2 days. Everyone (117 shooters) was using chamber flags, rifles were staged in proper areas, people were carrying rifles as to not flag anyone, and i thought the RO's paid serious attention to safety at this match. Safety is not just the job of the RO its ALL of US.

If you think a rifle sounded or felt funny when it fired just yell a cease fire and stop the clock, check the bore. Worst case is the guy gets to re-shoot that stage.

I also used to shoot 3 guns and i can say the level of safety protocol was never ignored. You mess up you are DQ'd doesn't matter how good you are. No weapon ever left the line without an RO looking in the chamber then telling the shooter to close the bolt and dry fire to confirm empty. The chamber was then locked open and weapon put on safe. This was done to every weapon before anyone was allowed down range to tape cardboard and reset steel.

 

[Inline6]

Just to clear this up...I was one of the ROs for this incident. The timer went off the guys face came off the gun and he just released his hands to make the rifle safe and it went off (gun was on a truck bed gate as it would be prone). Rifle was not moved off the stage and was pointed down range. Given the situation the MD didnt match DQ him and called it unsafe equipment. He was OK to continue just with another rifle.

I talked to the guy later and he had take the stock Savage Accu-trigger and modified it to be down to 1lb which is definitely below what it was designed for. Likely wasnt enough to hold the sear.

What ever happened to run what you brung if it goes down you are out. This brings up all kinds of bullshit. Let's say day one is all short range and I bring an AR 10 platform and shit it goes down guess I need to bring out my long range rig to finish the match.

At one point in time if your equipment failed you were out. If you need a trigger that is less than a pound to compet maybe you need to shoot bench rest matches.

I still can't believe this was allowed to happen.

I'm questioning what this sport is coming to....

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

What ever happened to run what you brung if it goes down you are out. This brings up all kinds of bullshit. Let's say day one is all short range and I bring an AR 10 platform and shit it goes down guess I need to bring out my long range rig to finish the match.

At one point in time if your equipment failed you were out. If you need a trigger that is less than a pound to compet maybe you need to shoot bench rest matches.

I still can't believe this was allowed to happen.

I'm questioning what this sport is coming to....

There is a whole lot of crap this stirs up for me but it was a one day regional match, not a 2 day. Also this was the guys first full day match, when you try and grow a sport/region you dont kick everyone out for every little thing (not talking the safety part). If you think the majority of people dont have a backup rifle with them when they go to matches then I dont know what to tell you. People put a lot of money into the match, travel, practice, etc. to be thrown away by a broken firing pin or extractor.

Personally I dont think people should ever get to a point where you have a selection of rifles like golf clubs during a match. Whatever rifle you start the day with is what you continue with until theres a clear mechanical failure. I could care less if its a rifle different than the one you start with on day 1 or if your buddy lets you borrow one if yours goes down(more of a disadvantage anyway).

On a broader note I kind of agree with what you are saying as a whole. The crap people drag to the matches is well beyond what I'll ever want to try and use but it also pushes innovation. Not gunna bring it up here but feel free to PM me

 

[Inline6]

Being emails and text messages are hard to read emotions into i'll do my best...

I give no fucks how much anyone spends to shoot a match. If a gun is unsafe you should be DQed. I know it's sounds like I'm a jackass that doesn't care. Well let's say you are shooting a match let's say it's your first match. You are halfway through the first day starting to get your rhythm. You are one a gate stage, 5 horizontal metal pipes. You get into position and right before you pull the trigger....two women pull into the firing lane you actually see hair in your scope. This shocks the ever living shit out of you.

Now if this was the mentioned unsafe weapon it could have went off even if your finger was not on the trigger.

Yes this is a real story that happened in front of my eyes. It was a friend that I and several others helped and encouraged him to shoot the match. It shook him up more then it did the women. He knew how close he was to sending a round at best through the front windshield at worst someone's head.

If you are going to shoot a match with 100+ people running and gunning and you can't tell me you have not test your equipment to make it is safe... yeah I don't feel sorry.

When does personal responsibility come into play? We as a community are lucky no one has been killed. Let that sink in WE ARE LUCKY! It's not because everyone is that good.

And people won't like that statement and that's fine. But with all the anti gun movement, how would the media spin an accident??? Why should citizens even owne guns when even the professionals have accidents and shoot one another. They have no problems with blaming the guns not the poor misunderstood people behind them.

So yeah I'm really intolerant to an unsafe weapon and even more so to an unsafe person.

 

[z7.jled]

Newer competitive shooter here, about 6 club PRS matches under my belt and about 10 "action shooting" matches between IDPA, action rifle, 2gun and 3 gun shooting. People are less worried about bolt guns sweeping others than any of the action sports i've shot. It is a limited number of clubs, limited shooters, but I am confident that if you acted similarly in 3 gun that many do behind the line at a PRS match you would be sent home.

I can't speak to how to solve the big match RO issues that some have discussed, but the local matches have an easy fix. have a USPSA/3Gun style Safety Officer that is a shooter/competitor, a spotter/scorer that is not a shooter (but honestly, why can't they shoot as well?) everyone compares notes after the COF. this happens all the time at local 3 gun matches and the RO's and scorers are normally shooters as well. I get it that some people may want to cheat their way to a win for a regional match. when they get caught, they are excommunicated from the organization for at least a year. do it twice and you are permanently banned from the sport. I heard it happened at a local 3 gun match down here where a few folks in a squad (all buddies) were adjusting times after the fact in their benefit. no prizes available, no regional championship to compete for, just bragging rights and self gratification but they are banned from the club.

safety culture starts with everyone, that means RO's, MD's, the PRS rules, and every shooter. we can all do better.

I screwed up and was called out by a fellow shooter, i listened, and in hindsight I appreciate it. after a match we had an open range and I was working a barricade on a 200yd target. we called a cease fire and some folks drove down to check out a 1 mile target, so we all sat around talking. I was speaking with another shooter about the 22lr, it had an open bolt, safety on, chamber flag in, so I picked it up to show him. muzzle was up but he pointed out "hey man, its a cease fire/cold range, I don't need to see it right now, put the gun down and let's wait for them to get back" I said something like "oh yeah" and put the gun down.


I do think there could be some room for allowing shooters to check equipment for an unsafe condition without getting hammered, but that opens other cans of worms as others have said. I have stopped the clock/stage twice on myself for an odd condition during a COF but it was during a club match with no real consequence. I'd be interested in hearing out some ideas for how you could stop a shooter mid stage and stop a catastrophe before it happens. the big areas you can screw up are during movement, so bolt back at least is required. one warning and then a stage DQ is fine, but you need a dedicated safety observer for that. the guy or gal on the glass has too much going on for some stages to also be a safety observer.

any ND is a DQ. there are no AD's, our guns go off intentionally or negligently. (a broken gun sucks, but that is not an accident and people don't get shot on accident)

rifle racks or defined staging areas are a must, but I think it needs to be defined as a big organizational rule and MD's and shooters must conform. last PRS match I shot had a traditional covered firing line. the NRA certified head honcho RO had us stage all rifles pointing backwards towards the parking lot, at the back of the covered firing line. anyone using the porta-jon or going to their vehicle was walking in front of 30 rifles. chamber flags were required and used, but it didn't feel right.

thanks for this thread, i have some thinking and observing to do this weekend and I need to check my own behavior to ensure I am part of a solution and not the problem.

A picture for fun:

 

[z7.jled]

Here is proof that it is not just PRS. every sport needs to get better:

 

[davsco]

Here is proof that it is not just PRS. every sport needs to get better:

at some point, a rifle is just a broomstick. in most of the 2 & 3 gun matches i've done, a rifle that has been demonstrated to be empty to an RO at the start of a stage may be slung empty (bolt forward on empty chamber, no mag inserted) and incidental muzzling while slinging or unslinging during that stage is allowed.

 

[Wormydog1724]

Muzzle me once, shame on you.
Muzzle me twice, I'll curb stomp your teeth in.

Muzzling someone, at any point, anywhere, is not ok. If a club 'allows' that, that's fucking dumb and opens up a world of liability for unsafe practices.

"It's unloaded.." - famous last words
Rule #1 cowboys. Rule #1.

Everyone is a safety officer. Anyone at a match should be allowed to call stop if they feel something is unsafe or potentially dangerous.

 

[z7.jled]

at some point, a rifle is just a broomstick. in most of the 2 & 3 gun matches i've done, a rifle that has been demonstrated to be empty to an RO at the start of a stage may be slung empty (bolt forward on empty chamber, no mag inserted) and incidental muzzling while slinging or unslinging during that stage is allowed.

agreed to a point, I have done training exercises with verified cleared weapons on practice boarding ships and when you find the "bad guys" drop the hammer while aiming at a person. part of the grade is hearing the audible "click" of the mk18 or m4. so yeah, a clean sight picture on a person's chest at 10 feet and pulling a trigger on the same weapon I carry a month later in theater. the military determined that the risk associated is low and the benefit makes this training realistic and beneficial

just because it is accepted doesn't mean we can't get better and make some small changes, and just because it is "allowed" doesn't mean it is a best practice.

is a bolt gun, magazine removed, chamber inspected by an RO, chamber flag in with the bolt back a broomstick? is it ok to suitcase carry because we know it is empty? I see your point and agree that in certain games and situations, it might happen so we put in extra checks to minimize risk, but is some of the risk both unavoidable and necessary?

 

[Inline6]

at some point, a rifle is just a broomstick. in most of the 2 & 3 gun matches i've done, a rifle that has been demonstrated to be empty to an RO at the start of a stage may be slung empty (bolt forward on empty chamber, no mag inserted) and incidental muzzling while slinging or unslinging during that stage is allowed.

I can't believe you honestly posted this. But okay again I am starting to think I'm very unlucky or I'm old as dirt. Again I have witnessed a round in the chamber and the RO called it good and personally had to correct it. It's dumb you treat ever gun as it is loaded, this is common sense. The rule is put in place so some dumb fuck doesn't get complacent and put a hole in someone.

It not that hard but I can't wrap my mind around how people can actually justify an unloaded rifle/pistol as safe to flag yourself and/or others with.

To all that have taught me, thank you. For all that need to learn I pray it is not from a mistake that cost someone their life.

We are not playing with toys, we are not playing army men or snipers. You can't call a round back after it has been sent.

 

[Mac1982]

They were moving with no bolt back and a chambered round. Which is wrong or their trigger is way too light for safe operation. Shouldn’t happen in the first place.

He was on target with a closed bolt. He attempted to press into his bag to remove his scope wobble while his finger was on the trigger. His firing hand made contact with a vertical portion of the barricade causing his finger to depress the trigger. It was an ND all day long but it would have been hard for an RO to prevent.

 

[LRdasher]

Muzzle me once, shame on you.
Muzzle me twice, I'll curb stomp your teeth in.

Muzzling someoe, at any point anywhere, is not ok. If a club 'allows' that, that's fucking dumb and opens up a world of liability for unsafe practices.

"It's unloaded.." - famous last words
Rule #1 cowboys. Rule #1.

Everyone is a safety officer. Anyone at a match should be allowed to call stop if they feel something is unsafe or potentially dangerous.

Have cut back significantly on the number of bigger matches I shoot due to the terrible muzzle control. Tired of getting flagged and then getting attitude when I point it out. Doesn't seem to be getting any better. Every time I look through photos from recent matches you see multiple pics of bad and sometimes scary muzzle control. A few pics from just today that I saw posted:

 

[Dthomas3523]

Have cut back significantly on the number of bigger matches I shoot due to the terrible muzzle control. Tired of getting flagged and them getting attitude when I point it out. Doesn't seem to be getting any better. Every time I look through photos from recent matches you see multiple pics of bad and sometimes scary muzzle control. A few pics from just today that I saw posted:


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The complacency of the game in general is even further exemplified by the fact that someone went through these pics, saw them, nothing stuck out to them, and they posted the pictures online.

 

[Jensey]

We should start to give out CAT tourniquets instead of T-shirts to all shooters at matches. Or templates for a will.

 

[THEIS]

 

[LRdasher]

Safety issues are not an epedmic in the sport. Not atleast that I have seen in my 16 years of shooting it.

With all due respect, shooters that believe this are either in denial or oblivious. The fact that there have not been serious injuries yet (thankfully) does not mean things are safe. With all of the pics and videos of matches now being posted on social media, it is clear as can be that many if not most matches have serious safety issues.

#18

#263

Hopefully this discussion will lead the organizations and MDs to make some simple changes i.e.

• Staging areas for all rifles clearly marked at each stage
• RO designated to safety and only safety (not spotting or scoring). Could be another shooter in squad
• Mechanism for anyone INCLUDING THE SHOOTER to call cease fire without retribution or penalty if they see something potentially unsafe. Mechanism would include the option for the shooter to resume stage where they left off or start over once everything is deemed safe.

 

[christopheraz]

Have cut back significantly on the number of bigger matches I shoot due to the terrible muzzle control. Tired of getting flagged and then getting attitude when I point it out. Doesn't seem to be getting any better. Every time I look through photos from recent matches you see multiple pics of bad and sometimes scary muzzle control. A few pics from just today that I saw posted:


View attachment 7068169
View attachment 7068168
View attachment 7068167View attachment 7068163View attachment 7068166View attachment 7068165

I was wondering if anyone else caught some of these photos that were posted recently. I mostly saw the guys holding their hands over their muzzles, but now seeing the placement of rifles on the ground behind shooters. That's ridiculous.

 

[Rob01]

With all due respect, shooters that believe this are either in denial or oblivious. The fact that there have not been serious injuries yet (thankfully) does not mean things are safe. With all of the pics and videos of matches now being posted on social media, it is clear as can be that many if not most matches have serious safety issues.

#18

#263

Hopefully this discussion will lead the organizations and MDs to make some simple changes i.e.

• Staging areas for all rifles clearly marked at each stage
• RO designated to safety and only safety (not spotting or scoring). Could be another shooter in squad
• Mechanism for anyone INCLUDING THE SHOOTER to call cease fire without retribution or penalty if they see something potentially unsafe. Mechanism would include the option for the shooter to resume stage where they left off or start over once everything is deemed safe.

Sorry I am neither but a realist and not chicken little. Sky is not falling and neither are bodies at PRS matches.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sorry I am neither but a realist and not chicken little. Sky is not falling and neither are bodies at PRS matches.

I typically agree with you Rob. But if you can’t look at all the pics and videos that are posted and not see there is a problem, you’re not a realist.

Bodies don’t fall until they fall, and then it’s too late.

 

[Rob01]

People see it and don't say anything and come here and complain. Take a picture instead of saying something. If I see something I say something. All I can do. Still stand by my statement. A lot of matches and no injuries.

 

[Mormegil87]

People see it and don't say anything and come here and complain. Take a picture instead of saying something. If I see something I say something. All I can do. Still stand by my statement. A lot of matches and no injuries.

I usually agree with you as well but in this case I can't. It only takes one time.

 

[Rob01]

Maybe we should just ban guns? Gun grabbers say a lot of the same things as some in here are saying when they say it's an epedemic, only takes one or if it will save one child etc.

Guys don't get me wrong. I am all for safety and I am completely safe when I am at matches and when I see something unsafe I say something about it but there is no epedemic. Sorry. I don't buy it and not jumping on the bandwagon. Do things happen? Sure and there is no way to stop it completely. Only do what you can when at a match to make it safe. Simple.

 

[Dthomas3523]

People see it and don't say anything and come here and complain. Take a picture instead of saying something. If I see something I say something. All I can do. Still stand by my statement. A lot of matches and no injuries.

You can stand by a statement all you want. Will you stand by it when someone gets shot?

The latest pics and videos were just random pics or video taken. Not pics taken to show unsafe things but not saying something.

The logic of nothing has happened yet is terrible. Someone wins the lottery all the time. Does that means the odds weren’t terrible for them?

Muzzle people enough and someone gets shot. You can say something all you want, that only helps when they haven’t shot someone.

You’re a sponsored shooter and generally speaking, have a voice. Would you tell a new shooter that everything is fine and people are just claiming the sky is falling?

Because, that’s what you just did. In public, for any new shooter to see. Claimed there is no issue because no one has been shot.

Would you be willing to take the place if anyone in those pics that’s being flagged, and tell the person with the rifle to pull the trigger? That’s all it takes.

 

[Dthomas3523]

You’re 100% wrong on this one.

PRS in general leads to more unsafe conditions than other shooting sports because of the movement and distance we must cover.

Therefore we need to be as, or more safe than other disciplines.

And, we are not. Whether you decide to see it or not.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Come on. Comparing gun grabbers to someone not liking when a muzzle is pointed at them is ridiculous.

 

[Rob01]

Hey you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

If I am being flagged I say something. People want to get flagged and not say something then that's on them.

I got dragged back into this by the poster above. I was done but again I stand by my posts. You all can keep at it if you want.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hey you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

If I am being flagged I say something. People want to get flagged and not say something then that's on them.

I got dragged back into this by the poster above. I was done but again I stand by my posts. You all can keep at it if you want.

People ARE saying something. Even if it is online. It’s being said.

What if someone is being flagged and has no idea and no one saw it? That ok? That on them too? Or should the guy doing the flagging be more aware of wtf he’s doing?

The point isn’t people need to say something. The point is, people need to be more aware we are playing a game with weapons and act as such.

 

[Rob01]

Not going to argue it with you. I don't like unsafe actions as I said and don;t condone them. A guy took those pics. Did he say something? Saying something and educating them is the way they learn. Not by complaining on the internet.

If people don't understand this is a game with weapons then we have already lost and should shut the sport down.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Why didn’t I yell stop?

Because many, many times in life you did yell "STOP"......... Our society has changed over my lifetime. People ignore the guy yelling STOP and simply continue on the path to destruction. I used to be the guy speaking up in order to avoid a disaster. I quit doing that. I save my breath.

It appears you have assumed some guilt here. You have no control over the actions of other's.

As common sense disappears from society, we will witness more train wrecks. Step back and let them go. Look out for #1, no one else is.

Hobo

 

[Mormegil87]

The reason this stuff is getting posted online is that people are saying things and it's being ignored by shooters, MDs and the series. Period. End of story.

Rob, we both work in the same field and you and I both know there are a ton of safety features built into our daily routines because of the what ifs and what could happens and all of the close calls.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not going to argue it with you. I don't like unsafe actions as I said and don;t condone them. A guy took those pics. Did he say something? Saying something and educating them is the way they learn. Not by complaining on the internet.

If people don't understand this is a game with weapons then we have already lost and should shut the sport down.

Fine, so it’s his fault those people muzzled others. Had he said something, the muzzling that was already occurring would have never happened right.

They had to be muzzled for the pics to be taken. Laying blame on person for taking them for not saying something instead of the people being unsafe is millennial thinking.

You are literally condoning unsafe actions because you assume no one said anything (how do you know they didn’t?)

Criminals that get away with stuff must not be at fault because a cop didn’t say anything.

 

[TheGerman]

In this thread we learn who the people are who have never sat in a chow hall during deployment.

 

[Rob01]

Isn't the big banner being waved here to educate? If he did say something the guy muzzling would learn and maybe not do it again? Hmm. Not millennial thinking but what everyone here is saying that you have to say something. I was not laying blame but wondering if something was said. I hope it was and the person learned. I do not condone unsafe actions so don't try and twist words and say I do.

Roter, so if it's getting ignored by the shooters, MDs and PRS series then who is going to change it? Those are the three main components of the sport. It's not getting ignored but just needs the shooters to police themselves and say something.

 

[Dthomas3523]

In this thread we learn who the people are who have never sat in a chow hall during deployment.

 

[TheGerman]

View attachment 7069095

lol

 

[Mormegil87]

Isn't the big banner being waved here to educate? If he did say something the guy muzzling would learn and maybe not do it again? Hmm. Not millennial thinking but what everyone here is saying that you have to say something. I was not laying blame but wondering if something was said. I hope it was and the person learned. I do not condone unsafe actions so don't try and twist words and say I do.

Roter, so if it's getting ignored by the shooters, MDs and PRS series then who is going to change it? Those are the three main components of the sport. It's not getting ignored but just needs the shooters to police themselves and say something.

Until all three of the above mentioned components of this game, man up, take a little ownership and admit that we do in fact have at the bare minimum lax attitude towards safety, nothing will change.

The shooters do need to say something. I agree with you 100%. If that person ignores your counsel and continues to be unsafe, move it up the chain.

When that doesn't work or in the case of a rule getting broken the ROs need to say something and follow the guidelines.

When the RO or shooters bring something to the attention of the MD the MD needs to stand behind their ROs and hold people accountable.

The Series directors and owners need to start holding the shooters and the MDs feet to the fire when they fuck up.

We all need to start taking ownership in this, like I've been saying that since the beginning of the thread. Leadership needs to set the parameters and enforce the culture and the line shooters and ROs need to hold each other accountable when leadership isnt right there to babysit.

Edit: @Rob01 If you're the Officer on your fire truck and your FF screws up, you tell them they screwed up.

If they continue to make the same mistake or blatantly ignore your corrections, is not the next step to take it up the line so that FF is either retrained, disciplined at the staff level or if all else fails, removed from their job?

 

[Rob01]

Isn't that what I have been saying? Tell them if you see it. People don't know what they don't know. Tell them. If they continue then run it up the chain. It's simple.

 

[Mormegil87]

I think that's where our opinions diverge and that's totally cool. I think it's being run up the chain at least to the MD level and the series has to be aware by now. But that's where it stops. Some MDs address it and some don't. The series has been all but silent on this minus a paragraph in the last news letter about how important safety is. Like @Lowlight said, start taxing guys points and this shit will stop. Maybe not right away but when it starts costing a competitor or two placements in the standings or a shot at the finale. Word will spread quick.

I don't subscribe to the NRLs newsletter so I won't comment on what they have done or not done

 

[Bender]

Is this still available?

Could you take payments?

 

[308pirate]

Can you please elaborate on the situation were this person blew his rifle up. I think it should be explained how and why. So others can learn.

You missed the entire point of his thread, which was not some guy blowing up his rifle.

 

[lash]

Is this still available?

Could you take payments?

You’re bad...damn troll...

 

[308pirate]

I stopped competing in registered sporting clays (NSCA) for this same fucking reason. It looks like I'll be staying away from another shooting sport until the mentality changes.

For now I'm happy to stay in USPSA where I know what will happen to anyone, including me, if we fuck up safety-wise.

And I'm OK with that.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I stopped competing in registered sporting clays (NSCA) for this same fucking reason. It looks like I'll be staying away from another shooting sport until the mentality changes.

For now I'm happy to stay in USPSA where I know what will happen to anyone, including me, if we fuck up safety-wise.

And I'm OK with that.

 

[308pirate]

View attachment 7069176

That doesn't bother me near as much as the fucktards I personally know that cannot comprehend the simple requirement to leave the fucking gun open when they leave the stand and leave it open until they put it on the rack. That even after being called out for forgetting to unload and walking off the stand with a close and loaded shotgun. Needless to say I haven't squadded with that motherfucker ever again.

 

[LRdasher]

Sorry I am neither but a realist and not chicken little.

So I am a chicken little because I don't like getting flagged and am concerned that there are going to be serious consequences if attitudes and behaviors don't change?

You sir are part of the problem.

I do shoot matches and I absolutely point it out when it happens as I said in my post. Sometimes I get a thank you but also get a lot of "who the fuck are you" attitude. I have pointed it out to ROs and MDs and usually just gets shrugged off. I have also emailed the directors of the PRS and NRL with my concerns.

 

[Rob01]

lol yeah I am part of the problem. Save it. Don't try and drag me into your drama. I have already stated my standing on safety issues.

 

[Dthomas3523]

lol yeah I am part of the problem. Save it. Don't try and drag me into your drama. I have already stated my standing on safety issues.

If he’s claiming he’s taken it up with RO, MD, NRL, and PRS, and doesn’t feel like he’s taken seriously, which is all the steps you have said to take......

What now? You still think there’s no issue?

 

[ThePretzel]

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I don't have issues with this at skeet/trap/sporting clays matches I compete in. An Over/Under shotgun is nothing more than a pair of tubes when it's broken open, and it would be all but impossible to accidentally close the gun or otherwise make it into something that isn't very obviously never going to fire.

When the gun is broken open at the usual 30-40 degree (ish) angle, it's very clear and visible from a full 360 degrees around the shooter and takes a fair amount of intentional effort to actually close the action again. When it's resting on your toe and the buttstock is under your armpit, which is the norm, it's physically impossible to close the action as the barrels rest on your toe without it catching in your armpit or you awkwardly manipulating it around your toe. The only scenarios where that would be easy to do would be if you were freakishly tall or your shotgun had an abnormally short length of pull.

One thing that I wonder about, along a similar line, is why people advocate for chamber flags when shooting bolt-action rifles. A chamber flag is brightly colored and indicates the gun is clear, yes, but it's only visible from the right side of a right-handed action. The action, scope, and scope rings/mount blocks the view of the chamber indicator if you're on the left side of the gun.

What does provide a 360 degree indicator that a bolt action rifle is safe, however, is an open bolt. The knob moves back and lifts up to where the view of it is unobstructed unless you're downrange and slightly to the left of the gun - a place you shouldn't be in the first place. It's a lot easier to glance at a bolt gun and see if the bolt is back than it is to crane your neck to try and find a chamber flag with the bolt moved forwards to hold it in place (if the bolt is forwards, the view knob is similarly obstructed by the scope and rings/mount from the left side).

 

[Mormegil87]

The chamber flag is about having another layer of safety built in. Another opportunity to think "Do i really need to be loading this gun and manipulating the bolt right now."