PSA berg 14r carbon barrel.

[Ruslow]

First in my quest to figure out why the cold bore shot was so far off and as the day got hotter the groups were opening up to look like a shotgun blast. Tried all types of ammo and some helped but still had problems. So in getting the barrel ready for a suppressor i started checking runout and such. the barrel nut [not thread protector] had some runout so wanting to do the best job and min poi shift with suppressor off and on,started checking other areas. barrel trunon was .005 then i cked muzzle threads for runout .050. then cked with centerline of bore and was perfect.

So i started thinking maybe something with cf barrel so i made a a tool to unscrew the nut behind the barrel thread protector and to my surprise here is what i found!!!

As you can see the barrel is NOT wrapped in carbon fiber but it is a cover and the barrel is .500. So i bought a pencil barrel with a cover for 100 bucks more and shots worse than the steel version. So those of you who are thinking about a cf version think again. i went a trued up the mating surfaces and am hoping this helps if not berg is going to hear from me!! thanks Stan

 

[chevy_man]

I thought it was common knowledge most of the cheap carbon barrels were sleeves and not real wraps.

Might be able to make it shoot with torque on the muzzle nut to essentially tension the barrel.

 

[Ruslow]

I can understand it being a cover but to make it a pencil barrel also? NO.

 

[FuhQ]

I didn't know they were sleeved... IMO a $300-450 barrel should be solid carbon, no excuse not to be.

But I just tapped on my Valquartsen CF barrel, and the barrel on my Christensen Arms Ranger 22, and they both sound like a hollow tube, as well. Not impressed...

 

[chevy_man]

I didn't know they were sleeved... IMO a $300-450 barrel should be solid carbon, no excuse not to be.

But I just tapped on my Valquartsen CF barrel, and the barrel on my Christensen Arms Ranger 22, and they both sound like a hollow tube, as well. Not impressed...

Notice the real carbon wrapped barrels are in the $6-800 range for a blank?

 

[FuhQ]

Notice the real carbon wrapped barrels are in the $6-800 range for a blank?

Yes, but those are typically centerfire rifle barrels with 5R cut-rifling, hand-lapping, etc... So, natural assumption a high-quality rimfire barrel would be much less. I still didn't expect that thin of a carbon tube...

 

[huntnh]

Cheesy I definitely won’t be picking one up

 

[chevy_man]

Yes, but those are typically centerfire rifle barrels with 5R cut-rifling, hand-lapping, etc... So, natural assumption a high-quality rimfire barrel would be much less. I still didn't expect that thin of a carbon tube...

Why?

You know the highest quality rimfire barrels are produced exactly the same?

The only thing that makes it a rimfire is the chamber reaming.

Quality dictates the cost, not the chambering.

 

[FuhQ]

Why?

You know the highest quality rimfire barrels are produced exactly the same?

The only thing that makes it a rimfire is the chamber reaming.

Quality dictates the cost, not the chambering.

It's a lot easier to make a 10/22 barrel that has a smooth tenon and a notch-clamp than a threaded and chambered pre-fit centerfire barrel.

 

[chevy_man]

It's a lot easier to make a 10/22 barrel that has a smooth tenon and a notch-clamp than a threaded and chambered pre-fit centerfire barrel.

I'd argue that with the CNC turning centers a threaded tenon is easier. Considering how many have gone to CNC threading and chambering, adding the notch is more complex.

 

[jrbet83]

It's a lot easier to make a 10/22 barrel that has a smooth tenon and a notch-clamp than a threaded and chambered pre-fit centerfire barrel.

If only there was a high end carbon fiber barrel manufacturer that made both threaded centerfield and 10/22 barrels to compare prices and your logic . Darn I guess we’ll never know

 

[FuhQ]

If only there was a high end carbon fiber barrel manufacturer that made both threaded centerfield and 10/22 barrels to compare prices and your logic . Darn I guess we’ll never know

Making smartass comments helps nobody. If there is a company, just post who it is.

 

[jrbet83]

Making smartass comments helps nobody. If there is a company, just post who it is.

Sorry I thought within the industry (especially in the USA) when we talk about quality carbon barrels, an obvious brand came to mind. As was already stated by another member, look at the price of a carbon barrel blank. No machine work what so ever, just a barrel blank. Proof blanks go for $730+ ($879 MSRP). They also make a 10/22 (and CZ slip 22lr)barrel for $749. So I didn’t know why we were having a conversation about assumptions of what we think they should cost, when we have the information of what they actually do cost. It would be great if they cost $300 like you said, but that’s not what the industry says is possible. The Proof Research 22lr barrel costs almost as much as the entire 14R. So I think it’s unreasonable to think a $1000 rifle should have a barrel, that costs in the ball park of $700. Doesn’t leave much for action, stock, trigger, bottom metal, magazine.

 

[FuhQ]

Sorry I thought within the industry (especially in the USA) when we talk about quality carbon barrels, an obvious brand came to mind. As was already stated by another member, look at the price of a carbon barrel blank. No machine work what so ever, just a barrel blank. Proof blanks go for $730+ ($879 MSRP). They also make a 10/22 (and CZ slip 22lr)barrel for $749. So I didn’t know why we were having a conversation about assumptions of what we think they should cost, when we have the information of what they actually do cost. It would be great if they cost $300 like you said, but that’s not what the industry says is possible. The Proof Research 22lr barrel costs almost as much as the entire 14R. So I think it’s unreasonable to think a $1000 rifle should have a barrel, that costs in the ball park of $700. Doesn’t leave much for action, stock, trigger, bottom metal, magazine.

Those barrels probably cost them 1/3 of that to make...Raw materials are not that damn expensive. You know it as well as I do. That's manufacturing 101. So, yeah, they probably could build a $1,000 rifle with one of those blanks if they really wanted to give a gun maker a huge price cut for mass quantity under contract.

I know what they cost, I have a 26" 1:7.5 twist .257 Proof blank sitting in a box in the closet for a .257x284 Blackjack build once I find another gunsmith, because mine keep retiring...

Either way, I did some reading and the CA Ranger 22 has a 416R blank with a Bentz Match chamber, and I finally went and shot it today. It shot a 0.438" 3-shot @ 100, and a 1.2" 3-shot group @ 200 yards with bulk CCI ammo. I'm pretty damn happy with that.

Checkout my thread on it for pics of the groups and stuff... I'll keep it updated as I go along.

Christensen Arms Ranger 22

Well… Got off work early, and drove to the local outdoor store… That’s always a mistake. Like going to the grocery store hungry. 🤣 All the guns, all these years, I’ve never personally owned a bolt-action .22LR… Dad has a few, but I’ve never had one. Well, I figured now that I have my Dead...

www.snipershide.com

 

[jrbet83]

Those barrels probably cost them 1/3 of that to make...Raw materials are not that damn expensive. You know it as well as I do. That's manufacturing 101. So, yeah, they probably could build a $1,000 rifle with one of those blanks if they really wanted to give a gun maker a huge price cut for mass quantity under contract.

I know what they cost, I have a 26" 1:7.5 twist .257 Proof blank sitting in a box in the closet for a .257x284 Blackjack build once I find another gunsmith, because mine keep retiring...

Either way, I did some reading and the CA Ranger 22 has a 416R blank with a Bentz Match chamber, and I finally went and shot it today. It shot a 0.438" 3-shot @ 100, and a 1.2" 3-shot group @ 200 yards with bulk CCI ammo. I'm pretty damn happy with that.

You should start your own business since you know so much about manufacturing 101, make those barrels/guns you know you could for a 1/3 less and sell them for what they’re sell theirs for. Imagine the amount of demand there’d be for a quality built complete rifle with a carbon Proof Research barrel for $1000. In fact put me down for the first two!

Also Im confused, are you not impressed or pretty darn happy with your CA? Because you said you were not impressed on Sunday (because it had one those crappy sleeved carbon barrels), now you’ve shot it and you’re pretty darn happy (because it shoots good)? Maybe, just maybe those sleeved carbon barrels perform pretty well for the money? Especially knowing for you to get any discernible increase in accuracy, you’d have to spend 2.5x more money and step up to a VooDoo or RimX.

 

[Ruslow]

Some are missing a point that i pointed out. WHY a pencil barrel? They could of left alot more material on the barrel than the .500 that they did. the inside of the cover is close to .875. why not make the barrel .750. this thing when it is hot outside 90+ degrees shoots like a shotgun with 00 buck. i wonder it the barrels for the CF version are screw up machining of the outside of the steel barrels?

 

[Ruslow]

wrong on that! i had to remachine the nuts shoulders that located the sleeve. they were out of centerling to the boreline more than .015. So I spent 4 hours getting things trued to centerline that should of been done at the factory,I feel it the barrel was thicker also those tolerances or i should say LACK of would not stack up as bad.

 

[FuhQ]

You should start your own business since you know so much about manufacturing 101, make those barrels/guns you know you could for a 1/3 less and sell them for what they’re sell theirs for. Imagine the amount of demand there’d be for a quality built complete rifle with a carbon Proof Research barrel for $1000. In fact put me down for the first two!

Also Im confused, are you not impressed or pretty darn happy with your CA? Because you said you were not impressed on Sunday (because it had one those crappy sleeved carbon barrels), now you’ve shot it and you’re pretty darn happy (because it shoots good)? Maybe, just maybe those sleeved carbon barrels perform pretty well for the money? Especially knowing for you to get any discernible increase in accuracy, you’d have to spend 2.5x more money and step up to a VooDoo or RimX.

If I could afford to, I would. And if I ever do, I'll hold you to it.

And yeah, I'm impressed with the performance, but not impressed with the fact it's a hollow tube. Luckily, the steel part of the barrel is thick enough that it's not a pencil, so it's got really good accuracy. I just expected it to be carbon wrapped, not carbon hollow tubed... It's just a disappointment, sort of like when you find out Santa isn't real... It's like, yeah, I get presents, but where's the magic in that???

 

[FuhQ]

Some are missing a point that i pointed out. WHY a pencil barrel? They could of left alot more material on the barrel than the .500 that they did. the inside of the cover is close to .875. why not make the barrel .750. this thing when it is hot outside 90+ degrees shoots like a shotgun with 00 buck. i wonder it the barrels for the CF version are screw up machining of the outside of the steel barrels?

I agree. That's kind of what I'm getting at. It was about 88º here today, and my CAR22 shot really well. Might be worth selling and getting a CA Ranger 22. It's an option. Or, rebarrel your Bergara with a real Proof CF barrel...

 

[DFOOSKING]

My guess...its a pencil barrel because its the only way to make the barrel light weight. Nobody wants a carbon barrel that weighs only slightly less than the steel. It supposed to be super light.

 

[Ruslow]

For me i was not looking at weight savings i was looking at rigidity over steel weight is secondary.

 

[chevy_man]

For me i was not looking at weight savings i was looking at rigidity over steel weight is secondary.

In a .22 rigidity is mostly meaningless.

All of proof blanks are very light barrel, with a pile of carbon wrapped up to keep it from shifting with heat while being a good bit lighter than steel.

The 1 and only benefit carbon barrels are providing is less weight for a given barrel taper. Notice how the proof and carbon 6 barrels are always sendero weight or heavier? Because carbon makes no sense in a lighter profile.


And I would guess there's room for proof to cost cut, but why would you cut costs when you have all your capacity sold? That's when you raise costs until your manufacturing can keep up.

Carbon 6 is "cheap", but they're still $800 for a pre-fit barrel.

 

[iceng]

I bought the b14r carbon, only so I could remove the barrel and install a new Swan 9twist 22".

The SK rifle match are touching the lands on th factory carbon barrel. That's where it begins to "jam on lands". Also the thread was 1.14" * 12 tpi from memory, don't quote me on that.

How my 22lr looks now.

 

[M77]

I have no doubt that they are just a Carbon tube , but I asked Bergara and got this response.

 

[FuhQ]

Well, it didn't help you went to the Spanish site, instead of Bergara USA. The language barrier probably didn't help it, either.

 

[22lfb]

Well, on the german Bergara website it says "Carbonmantel" - which roughly translates into "carbon sleeve"... I never considered the carbon version, because I have trust issues with composite materials.

 

[AirGunShawn]

Given the use of CF on everything from bicycles, high pressure scuba tanks, airplanes etc, I have no concern about
the use of CF or the marriage to metals CF whatsoever. To be honest the idea of the barrel on the B14R being a sleeve never
even crossed my mind. It just seems counterintuitive when I consider all of the applications that I have seen it in that work
really well. Every CF Bergara I have seen costs more than all steel versions do. I feel compelled to ask when does a barrel become
a pencil barrel?? I was just at the Walther site and they offer different contours that taper down to .55" at the muzzle.

I realize that everybody likes a meaty .86" inch barrel including myself but how much of that is perception? Recently I was
considering a CF B14R simply because my all-steel girl is a little nose heavy. I'm glad that I didn't follow through on that one.
I see guy's re-barreling all sorts of guns like the Ruger Precision and CZ 457 MTR. If you're going to spend 600 / 800 on a new
barrel why not get the Vudoo? The one time cost after a lifetime of working doesn't seem cost prohibitive to me.

I just did some work on my factory B14R trigger and it's now breaking at 11 ounce's and has an adjustable sear stop. For me that
was a puzzle to solve and not a solution to the factory unit's short comings. It also kept me in the factory class at the LGC.
How to alter the trigger without grinding off the 7 rivets that contain the unit. Someone else posted their trigger shown in photo
#5 and the solution became painfully obvious.

Nothing about my Bergara will ever be as Cool as my Vudoo but it shoots nearly the same even when I sent it off to Lapua.
Though I did put a Vudoo bolt knob on my B14R and that made for a nice upgrade. It's bigger, longer and no sharp
knurling to scratch up my fingers. fyi... the targets were shot with the factory trigger set to its minimum #2, 4 oz. prior
to my trigger mod.

SORRY... I've gotten off track.... For my taste, 6 barrel flutes would be the preferred method to lighten my gun.

 

[AirGunShawn]

Now after a second look of the OPs photos, the barrel doesn't even touch the CF tube except for the extreme ends
and then only on some secondary fittings. People have been hood-winked by the lure of high tech CF !! LoL

 

[Frankr]

Wasn’t there a centerfire barrel company that promoted the benefits of “tension” CF barrels?

Basically if you can tighten a nut on the end of the barrel and create enough tension with CF it will resist “whip” when the barrel is shot or starts to heat up. I might be missing some key components but in the end the reasoning was you could have a skinny barrel held under tension by the CF tube. I think they had holes in the CF tube on their CF barrels.

 

[68hoyt]

bsf , bfs or something like that , carbon fiber tensioned ar15 barrel , I looked at a Grendel on sale a couple of years ago