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PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
- Thread starter Bluejazz
- Start date
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I dont have any experience with the ptr-msg model but I do have some experience with the ptr-91. they are partial to what you feed them , they are heavy , and throw your brass into the next county . accuracy is nothing special nor nothing bad about on power with a dpms or rock river lar-8 1-2.5 moa depending on the shooter and ammo. im not trying to run the gun in the ground Im just giving you the straight up non sugar coated experience I had . good luck with what you decide
I dont have any experience with the ptr-msg model but I do have some experience with the ptr-91. they are partial to what you feed them , they are heavy , and throw your brass into the next county . accuracy is nothing special nor nothing bad about on power with a dpms or rock river lar-8 1-2.5 moa depending on the shooter and ammo. im not trying to run the gun in the ground Im just giving you the straight up non sugar coated experience I had . good luck with what you decide
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
Accuracy is decent for a battle rifle, really reliable, beat the hell out of brass though and the scope mounts aren't cheap.
Accuracy is decent for a battle rifle, really reliable, beat the hell out of brass though and the scope mounts aren't cheap.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
The PTR MSG-91 Perimeter rifles are hit and miss in my experience (PUN INTENDED). I have seen some that were MOA capable with match ammo and others that hovered closer to around 2MOA. Scope mounting on the MSG-91 is not a problem and not expensive as PTR welds on a picatinny rail to the receiver of that model so once you have an optic and compatible picatinny rings, you can mount away without incurring the expense of a claw lock mount or a B&T flattop mount adapter. Also, because of the Magpul PRS adjustable stock, getting a good cheekweld and sight picture with optics mounted is much easier than with the standard G3/HK91 stock. You still have to deal with the OAL of the scope you select because of possible interference with the forward cocking handle and the scope's bell.
Like folks have already said, reliability is good. The gas-retarded, delayed roller lock action is VERY reliable under a wide range of conditions/environments.
It all depends on what you want to do with the rifle and whether it will meet your needs though. I will tell you that for the money PTR wants for their MSG-91 ($2k give or take), you can get a DPMS, Armalite or other AR-type semi-auto that will run circles around the PTR in terms of accuracy and will cost you a good bit less.
The PTR MSG-91 Perimeter rifles are hit and miss in my experience (PUN INTENDED). I have seen some that were MOA capable with match ammo and others that hovered closer to around 2MOA. Scope mounting on the MSG-91 is not a problem and not expensive as PTR welds on a picatinny rail to the receiver of that model so once you have an optic and compatible picatinny rings, you can mount away without incurring the expense of a claw lock mount or a B&T flattop mount adapter. Also, because of the Magpul PRS adjustable stock, getting a good cheekweld and sight picture with optics mounted is much easier than with the standard G3/HK91 stock. You still have to deal with the OAL of the scope you select because of possible interference with the forward cocking handle and the scope's bell.
Like folks have already said, reliability is good. The gas-retarded, delayed roller lock action is VERY reliable under a wide range of conditions/environments.
It all depends on what you want to do with the rifle and whether it will meet your needs though. I will tell you that for the money PTR wants for their MSG-91 ($2k give or take), you can get a DPMS, Armalite or other AR-type semi-auto that will run circles around the PTR in terms of accuracy and will cost you a good bit less.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
Yeah an AR build would run circles around it for the same or less money. I looked at a lot of different 'battle' rifles before I settled on a 308AR. I made a few mistakes but overall I'm happy.
Yeah an AR build would run circles around it for the same or less money. I looked at a lot of different 'battle' rifles before I settled on a 308AR. I made a few mistakes but overall I'm happy.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would put it up against any AR in accuracy and I have had no problems. The reliability on this gun will supersede any AR platform in my opinion. </div></div>
I won't dispute you on the reliability point...they are phenomenally reliable with a huge range of ammo which is one of the many benefits of the gas-ret., delayed roller lock action. BUT...your claim that the MSG-91 will go up against "any AR in accuracy" is just unfounded from my experience with several of these rifles shooting everything from factory match ammo to reloads...especially when compared to several of my AR-type 308 rifles that will achieve vastly better accuracy for the same or less money than the cost of the MSG-91. What kind of 5-round groups are you able to achieve with your MSG-91 and with what ammo and at what ranges?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would put it up against any AR in accuracy and I have had no problems. The reliability on this gun will supersede any AR platform in my opinion. </div></div>
I won't dispute you on the reliability point...they are phenomenally reliable with a huge range of ammo which is one of the many benefits of the gas-ret., delayed roller lock action. BUT...your claim that the MSG-91 will go up against "any AR in accuracy" is just unfounded from my experience with several of these rifles shooting everything from factory match ammo to reloads...especially when compared to several of my AR-type 308 rifles that will achieve vastly better accuracy for the same or less money than the cost of the MSG-91. What kind of 5-round groups are you able to achieve with your MSG-91 and with what ammo and at what ranges?
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I am getting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain. I do have one of the newer barrels being made, (Thompson Center Arms Match Grade) where it is a few months old but it is what it is. I do have to say that the MSG-91 does not like South African and other ammo using the Burdine Primer where it will gum up on the flutes. PTR does not recommended these primers being used because of the primer tar. All that being said the rifle rocks in my opinion.
I am getting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain. I do have one of the newer barrels being made, (Thompson Center Arms Match Grade) where it is a few months old but it is what it is. I do have to say that the MSG-91 does not like South African and other ammo using the Burdine Primer where it will gum up on the flutes. PTR does not recommended these primers being used because of the primer tar. All that being said the rifle rocks in my opinion.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am getting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain. I do have one of the newer barrels being made, (Thompson Center Arms Match Grade) where it is a few months old but it is what it is. I do have to say that the MSG-91 does not like South African and other ammo using the Burdine Primer where it will gum up on the flutes. PTR does not recommended these primers being used because of the primer tar. All that being said the rifle rocks in my opinion.</div></div>
Primer tar? The only tar you could get would be from neck sealant. "Berdan" primers don't have tar. Some can be corrosive but not tar. Most problems is not a gummed up flute it was and is a machining problem from not fluting deeply enough. That is it. Otherwise you can run ANYTHING that will ignite the primer through and HK 9X series rifle built correctly. As to accuracy there are just way to many aftermarket high quaility barrels for the AR than there are for the HK 9X series rifles so the outshooting an AR is unrealistic. I love my HK's but be reasonable the AR has been transforming over the decades to a reliable good shooting platform.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am getting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal Gold Medal Match 168 grain. I do have one of the newer barrels being made, (Thompson Center Arms Match Grade) where it is a few months old but it is what it is. I do have to say that the MSG-91 does not like South African and other ammo using the Burdine Primer where it will gum up on the flutes. PTR does not recommended these primers being used because of the primer tar. All that being said the rifle rocks in my opinion.</div></div>
Primer tar? The only tar you could get would be from neck sealant. "Berdan" primers don't have tar. Some can be corrosive but not tar. Most problems is not a gummed up flute it was and is a machining problem from not fluting deeply enough. That is it. Otherwise you can run ANYTHING that will ignite the primer through and HK 9X series rifle built correctly. As to accuracy there are just way to many aftermarket high quaility barrels for the AR than there are for the HK 9X series rifles so the outshooting an AR is unrealistic. I love my HK's but be reasonable the AR has been transforming over the decades to a reliable good shooting platform.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them.
Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
If you are consistently obtaining 1/2" groups at 100yds with FGMM with your MSG-91 then more power to you as that is unbelievable accuracy that rivals even the PSG-1 and the true MSG-90 abilities! You should send Scorpion Arms (PTR's parent co.) some pics of your rifle setup, targets, etc. so that they can use them for marketing purposes!! Of the three different ones I have personally fired, none were better than around MOA at best and one was more or less a 2MOA rifle. They have been using TC barrels on their rifles, including the MSG-91, for several years now which are decent enough barrels for their purposes, but I have not seen them on any of the PTR rifles achieve that level of accuracy.
Again, not bashing on your or your rifle...but I think you have the BIG exception and not the rule as these rifles go in terms of accuracy.
If you are consistently obtaining 1/2" groups at 100yds with FGMM with your MSG-91 then more power to you as that is unbelievable accuracy that rivals even the PSG-1 and the true MSG-90 abilities! You should send Scorpion Arms (PTR's parent co.) some pics of your rifle setup, targets, etc. so that they can use them for marketing purposes!! Of the three different ones I have personally fired, none were better than around MOA at best and one was more or less a 2MOA rifle. They have been using TC barrels on their rifles, including the MSG-91, for several years now which are decent enough barrels for their purposes, but I have not seen them on any of the PTR rifles achieve that level of accuracy.
Again, not bashing on your or your rifle...but I think you have the BIG exception and not the rule as these rifles go in terms of accuracy.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
Actually HK did not develop it and I'd like to see some of your 1/2 in groups?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
Actually HK did not develop it and I'd like to see some of your 1/2 in groups?
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I have not fired any other PTR rifles so I can not attest to the standards of them. I can only speak for mine. Thank you for not bashing me but I do agree with you. I was very impressed when I shot it. I had shot original Hk-91's and expected the same accuracy and was overwhelmed how the gun shot. On the above post I am aware of how the gun was developed, but thanks for pointing that out. On the sending the target comment, I do sense a little sarcasm in your comment but it's all good and I respect your opinion and think we are blessed to have the freedom to sound off on what we are passionate about.
I have not fired any other PTR rifles so I can not attest to the standards of them. I can only speak for mine. Thank you for not bashing me but I do agree with you. I was very impressed when I shot it. I had shot original Hk-91's and expected the same accuracy and was overwhelmed how the gun shot. On the above post I am aware of how the gun was developed, but thanks for pointing that out. On the sending the target comment, I do sense a little sarcasm in your comment but it's all good and I respect your opinion and think we are blessed to have the freedom to sound off on what we are passionate about.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
No sarcasm whatsoever intended...I AM DEAD SERIOUS!! Jose and the guys love getting info like this from satisfied customers. They won't likely use it for marketing purposes because it may hold them to a standard that they cannot guarantee with all their MSG-91 rifles, but I still think they'd like seeing your results and hearing your comments.
No sarcasm whatsoever intended...I AM DEAD SERIOUS!! Jose and the guys love getting info like this from satisfied customers. They won't likely use it for marketing purposes because it may hold them to a standard that they cannot guarantee with all their MSG-91 rifles, but I still think they'd like seeing your results and hearing your comments.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctyKezaegds Thanks, but it looks like they probably don't need to hear from me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctyKezaegds Thanks, but it looks like they probably don't need to hear from me.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
That didn't take long; 8 posts and claiming 1/2 in groups out of a Cetme/HK clone! Well atleast you didn't claim 1/4 in groups !
That didn't take long; 8 posts and claiming 1/2 in groups out of a Cetme/HK clone! Well atleast you didn't claim 1/4 in groups !
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I loved all the white lab coats and calipers in that video.
HK G3 based precision rifles are only good to look at and hang on the wall in your collection IMO.
If you want a good accurate semi auto that will not destroy any chances of reloading your brass, I suggest a GAP or APA built DPMS or AR10 platform.
Of course I was bitten by the HK bug 10-12 years ago and was a solid member of hkpro and hk91.com. I was buying all the psg1 parts i could find back then and they were very expensive even back then.
I loved all the white lab coats and calipers in that video.
HK G3 based precision rifles are only good to look at and hang on the wall in your collection IMO.
If you want a good accurate semi auto that will not destroy any chances of reloading your brass, I suggest a GAP or APA built DPMS or AR10 platform.
Of course I was bitten by the HK bug 10-12 years ago and was a solid member of hkpro and hk91.com. I was buying all the psg1 parts i could find back then and they were very expensive even back then.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It wasn't a super sniper scope, it was an SS rifle that PTR produces he didn't say anything about optics my friend.</div></div>
You are right he kinda slurred his words. Did he say under 1/2 MOA? Just curious.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It wasn't a super sniper scope, it was an SS rifle that PTR produces he didn't say anything about optics my friend.</div></div>
You are right he kinda slurred his words. Did he say under 1/2 MOA? Just curious.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
</div></div>
Not doubting that is what he "said".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
</div></div>
Not doubting that is what he "said".
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
</div></div>
I saw a commercial once for pills that makes your dick grow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Actually HK developed this rifle starting in 1950 Stoner's M-16 saw use in 1963 so if you want to look at dates vs. quality which in my opinion has no bearing on anything the HK has been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled. I am no expert in primers or the like but I know that you put crappy ammo in the gun you might have some problems. I think it's an extremely accurate rifle for the platform and if you don't have experience owning one and shooting it you are far pressed to make any judgments on it's accuracy. I am not downing any kind of AR type rifle or saying anything is better. I am merely saying the MSG-91 can definitely hold it's own with them. </div></div>
I am familiar with HK weapon systems and have shot them extensively over the years including the ownership of several including the one I still own. Having "been around longer and has served in more conflicts and countries than most rifles we have handled" does not change my opinion or my statement. The AK has been around a long time too. I would not do precision work with an AK. Sure you could put a match barrel on an AK with a match chamber and maybe get a 1 or less MOA rifle but why? You can make a 1 MOA AR for 1/3 the money, and you can make it for 1/2 the money of an HK.
I will never sell my HK for many reasons two reasons are reliability and sentimental value. That is it. I will be putting together a couple of AR platforms however in 5.56 because they are accurate, fun, reliable, inexpensive, add ons up the ying yang, and my young one can shoot it with ease.
p.s. Turk at 2:02 the guy in the commercial you tube video did say it was UNDER 1/2 MOA with a Super-Sniper scope.
</div></div>
I saw a commercial once for pills that makes your dick grow.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I'd like to see pics of those 1/2" groups, especially if they are 5 shots several times in a row. I can generally manage 3/4" 5 shot and 1" or less 10 shot groups with my 308 AR and handloads at 100. I also shoot off a bipod, it's a little bit more accurate if I strap it into a lead sled.
I'd like to see pics of those 1/2" groups, especially if they are 5 shots several times in a row. I can generally manage 3/4" 5 shot and 1" or less 10 shot groups with my 308 AR and handloads at 100. I also shoot off a bipod, it's a little bit more accurate if I strap it into a lead sled.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I am really glad I have met such experts in this field...Especially when they think the rifle he is shooting in the video is a scope......How can someone know so much about a subject but they can't even identify the rifle they are talking about.... So did the pills work for you or did you eat the package they came in either way it probably didn't help did it...
Your comments are commical and your diverse knowledge of everything on the planet amazes me. I am so glad I have found true firearms experts who can type a good game anyway. Hope the pills work and your brass doesn't get damaged by reading this.
I am really glad I have met such experts in this field...Especially when they think the rifle he is shooting in the video is a scope......How can someone know so much about a subject but they can't even identify the rifle they are talking about.... So did the pills work for you or did you eat the package they came in either way it probably didn't help did it...
Your comments are commical and your diverse knowledge of everything on the planet amazes me. I am so glad I have found true firearms experts who can type a good game anyway. Hope the pills work and your brass doesn't get damaged by reading this.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I don't believe he stated that he bought any pills! The way you measure groups; John Holmes would have a small d@$#!
I don't believe he stated that he bought any pills! The way you measure groups; John Holmes would have a small d@$#!
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really glad I have met such experts in this field...Especially when they think the rifle he is shooting in the video is a scope......How can someone know so much about a subject but they can't even identify the rifle they are talking about.... So did the pills work for you or did you eat the package they came in either way it probably didn't help did it...
Your comments are commical and your diverse knowledge of everything on the planet amazes me. I am so glad I have found true firearms experts who can type a good game anyway. Hope the pills work and your brass doesn't get damaged by reading this. </div></div>
Relax Sparky your making a real good first impression here. Your right every ones a fool for not believing a commercial for half moa easy on these things. Yeah the Krauts tried for 30 years with Psg-1s and Msg-90s and moa was very acceptable.PTRs are nice rifles but they have problems with standard ball 7.62 ( a by product of too tight a chamber trying for more accuracy) a real peoblem for a combat weapon.
Oh and as far as knowledge some here may have a little more then you think.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bonesaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am really glad I have met such experts in this field...Especially when they think the rifle he is shooting in the video is a scope......How can someone know so much about a subject but they can't even identify the rifle they are talking about.... So did the pills work for you or did you eat the package they came in either way it probably didn't help did it...
Your comments are commical and your diverse knowledge of everything on the planet amazes me. I am so glad I have found true firearms experts who can type a good game anyway. Hope the pills work and your brass doesn't get damaged by reading this. </div></div>
Relax Sparky your making a real good first impression here. Your right every ones a fool for not believing a commercial for half moa easy on these things. Yeah the Krauts tried for 30 years with Psg-1s and Msg-90s and moa was very acceptable.PTRs are nice rifles but they have problems with standard ball 7.62 ( a by product of too tight a chamber trying for more accuracy) a real peoblem for a combat weapon.
Oh and as far as knowledge some here may have a little more then you think.
Re: PTR-MSG 91 Preimeter rifle
I don't really want to throw fuel on the fire but Rodriguez (IIRC) said it shoots half-moa and then said "well actually sub half-moa. Since production bolt guns typically are not half-moa out of the box I find that a stretch. If they are that capable I would think the group they fired at the end would represent the half-moa to truly show off the capability. The group fired was a 3-shot group and didn't look like it was half-moa, but granted there was no mic in the video on the group either.
I have always had an interest in the PTR rifles as I always wanted an HK .308 rifle but there are too many guns and not enough money. I have a Noveske barreled AR10 I just built so there aren;t funds for all the toys I want.
I don't really want to throw fuel on the fire but Rodriguez (IIRC) said it shoots half-moa and then said "well actually sub half-moa. Since production bolt guns typically are not half-moa out of the box I find that a stretch. If they are that capable I would think the group they fired at the end would represent the half-moa to truly show off the capability. The group fired was a 3-shot group and didn't look like it was half-moa, but granted there was no mic in the video on the group either.
I have always had an interest in the PTR rifles as I always wanted an HK .308 rifle but there are too many guns and not enough money. I have a Noveske barreled AR10 I just built so there aren;t funds for all the toys I want.
