Pulling apart some ammo

[KeeblerArmy]

Background: A friend of mine gave me several hundred rounds of .308 ammo. It is Federal American Eagle 150gr fmjbt. They are all from the same lot but I don't have a box in front of me to tell you what it is.

I'm trying to figure out what components they used to load it. The bullets are ball ammo and they have a cantalure. When weighing them they range between 149.9gr and 150.1 typically.

The charge is hovering right around 46.1gr. It is a ball powder. On the box they state that the velocity should be 2820fps I believe (again from memory). With that charge and velocity I'm thinking the powder might be RL-15 based on some of the data I have. (I'm not sure if RL-15 is a ball powder however)The company website data disagrees though with those numbers. Anyone care to speculate?

The COL is in the neighborhood of 2.700, the variation ranges from 2.68-2.71 or so. Measured from the tip, I don't know how to accurately do it at the o-give.

Here's where the questions come in.

The accuracy isn't great so I was going to try uniforming the rounds as best I could. Using 46.0 for the charge and 2.700 as the case overall length. (If anyone is curious I'm shooting a Remington 700vss. Left handed model

)

Primers are just not to be found in my area so I am also considering gutting them and using the primered case and changing powder to some H4895 and a SMK bullet. I'm a little concerned about residual powder (the occasional granule) being left in the cases though. (On a side note, is there really that big of a difference between H4895 and IMR?)

Is this cause for concern at all in either case? Rebuilding with the same components or changing powder and bullets? Since I would be changing bullet weight to 168 or 175 using an unknown powder seems like a bad idea to me. I am new to reloading. My immediate goals are to try to get my groupings to sub-MOA at 100yds before beginning to reach out to longer distances.

Thanks.

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

RL-15 I'm pretty sure is a stick powder, not ball. As far as H4895 and IMR, H4895 is a faster burning powder. Maybe if you post a picture of the powder, someone can identify it. I am not familiar with what companies use in factory ammo maybe someone else is though. here is a link to a burn rate chart. H4895 is #110 and IMR is #114.

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Yeah if you are taking the 150 grain bullet off and going with a heavier bullet, don't use that powder that was in there. Pressures will be higher and not knowing what powder it is, means you don't know how much to reduce the charge weight to get a safe load. Not knowing what kind of primers are in those isn't exactly a good thing either. Probably not crucial, but start your loads light to be sure.

I would go with Varget or IMR 4895 for powder and work up a load. Make sure you read a reloading manual. Oh yeah and the residual powder thing, just make sure when you empty the cases out, tap them a few times on the reloading bench to get out any powder that is left in the case. And I don't know how old the ammo is, but visually look in the case after you empty it to make sure you see the flash hole so you know there is no caked powder left in there. Sometimes powder will settle and solidify in the case instead of being loose.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

46.0 grs of BL-C(2) in a .308 win case, lite with a mag primer and pushing a crimped 147gr FMJBT, is as close as a direct match for M80 ball ammo your going to get. Theres lots of different ball powder around but BL-C(2) is used alot in clone M80 ammo,....

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

Definitly not R15 powder- it's an extruded powder. You really need to start from scratch with your load work up. You can use the brass, but you won't be able to know what primer they use. The powder will make nice fertilizer come Spring. I would shoot this ammo for the fun of it, and re-use the brass. Too much work pulling these bullets, with too little gain in using them. Garbage in, garbage out- start with a good quality plan, and your results will be rewarded later on.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

I'm in the middle of pulling bullets from a .50 cal can FULL of .223 80 SMKs.

If you decide to pull 'em, keep the vitamin M handy.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

I was always under the impression that unless it was like a magnum primer or something, the primer really doesn't make that much of a difference. Even match grade. Am I mistaken in that?


Vitamin M??

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

Motrin

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

If you really can't find primers and you want to go through all the work of pulling the bullets, I don't see a problem using the primed cases. Unless you are looking for "match grade" accuracy it should be fine.

You are right about the magnum primers, they are a bit hotter so to be sure I would start the load light and work up keeping an eye for pressure signs. Don't use that powder that you pull though.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

I'd pull the bullets, save the powder, neck size the case and chamfer it, then recharge with the same powder at 46 grains and some good 150 grain after market bullets...one of the flat base Sierras will please you. By the time you shoot them up, you may be able to find some primers. That is about two pounds of powder at $24 per pound, now days. JMHO

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

If they haven't been shot, do you have to neck size the case if you pull them?

 

[josephberry]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

if they chambered in your rifle before, then you shouldn't have to, as long as you used a inertia puller and did not alter the neck. sounds like a lot of work, why dont you just shoot them and start from scratch with the brass?

 

[former naval person]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

I think he is looking for better accuracy. IMHO, I think neck sizing and chamfering to remove the factory crimp will help accuracy.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

46.0gr of BL-C(2) or W748 (often named as a close equivalent to WC750) would put you at about 2600-2650fps with the Sierra 150gr FMJBT-W/C, according the older Sierra Manual I use.

I would think that simply disassembling the components and recombining them with a more accurately weighed 46.0gr charge would render improvement. Between more accurate charge weights, and maybe some seating depth tweaking, better accuracy is a distinct possibility.

If you wanted to do some testing of charge weight variations, it wouldn't be a bad thing, but it would also probably leave you with an irresistible urge to find more Fed American Eagle 150gr stuff and keep that ball rolling.

The brass and the priming may or may not be optimal, but if they're available, that's a significant plus these days. You might even find that BL-C(2) or W748 would be a good substitute to reload those cases, when and if priming becomes more available. 150gr Mil-Spec bullets are not as hard to find as primers these days. Until then, cannibalizing Am/Eag can be easily forgiven.

I find that when I use the inertia puller on factory rounds, no neck prep is needed before reseating the bullets.

Greg

 

[Super Bee 950]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

I have done this a couple of times with 5.56 ammo. I was able to get the 5.56 green tip ammo twice as good by trimming the cases, neck sizing, and putting in a consistent powder charge. Just putting in a consistent powder charge and using a 77gr match bullet made the groups worse. Case prep does affet the group.

I am working a new load now using 62gr FMJ. My groups go from all over the freaking page to good groups using different powders and weights. One grain of powder can make a world of difference in your gun. I wouldnt waste the time working up a load for a few hundred rounds. It can take me a 100 rounds to really dial in a load. Once you work up a load, buy enough componets to make 1000+ rounds and be done with it.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: Pulling apart some ammo

A couple people have mentioned inertial pullers, which I am not using. I'm using the hornady pulling die. Is the concern when using those the neck and shoulders getting stretched out?