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Pushing the speed limit! When do you back off? What pressure signs?
- Thread starter Steel+Killer
- Start date
Back off? What are you scared? Don't be a pussy. Its just brass. 
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D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Uh, this guy of all the people on this forum is the one you think is stupid? Really? You've been around long enough to know your audience and in what context somebody is using when they state something. WTF.
Did you even read the entirety of what I wrote? You think that telling people to load to their brass case pressure limit is good for them or their rifles? Do you understand what pressures we’re talking about? And then to argue that it won’t damage the rifle and that your spaceship alloy won’t wear as if that applies to the rifles wielded by the majority of readers is beyond the pale.
Excuse the fuck out of me.
Hi,
So I take that as a no in regards to you putting your money where your mouth is??
Did YOU read the comments entirely??
I said YOU may damage but I guarantee I will not.
Then YOU said any alloy would damage.
Which is completely bullshit and I willing to prove it with you.
But at that point you realized you stuck YOUR knowledge dick in the wrong hole and had to leave the adult conversation and revert to elementary school tactics of "I know you are but what am I".
You are indeed excused from the conversation.
Sincerely,
Theis
So I take that as a no in regards to you putting your money where your mouth is??
Did YOU read the comments entirely??
I said YOU may damage but I guarantee I will not.
Then YOU said any alloy would damage.
Which is completely bullshit and I willing to prove it with you.
But at that point you realized you stuck YOUR knowledge dick in the wrong hole and had to leave the adult conversation and revert to elementary school tactics of "I know you are but what am I".
You are indeed excused from the conversation.
Sincerely,
Theis
I admit I was wrong about the “any alloy” comment. I’m so sorry about that, oh lord of metallurgy with the only action on the planet that can take the abuse you proposed in this thread. Please forgive my insubordination to the caste system in SH where you are indeed far above me.
On a side note, I remember a few years back reading about a guy who managed to peen the bolt lugs in his AI rifle. The bolt would not lock. He ground down the bolt lug diameter to the point where the bolt would close and continued shooting. The rifle went back to AI where it received a new bolt and a new locking insert.
I know AI bolts and locking inserts are made from a very hard and durable alloy, yet dude managed to peen one doing exactly what Theis suggested. And that’s with an AI, not some cheap rifle.
Loading rounds this way is dumb, plain dumb.
I know AI bolts and locking inserts are made from a very hard and durable alloy, yet dude managed to peen one doing exactly what Theis suggested. And that’s with an AI, not some cheap rifle.
Loading rounds this way is dumb, plain dumb.
Can you find the reference for this? I'm interested in the specifics - not to be argumentative, just curiosity about what kind of actual abuse and results.
I don't think it was a suggestion, or at least more than a tongue in cheek one. The phrase "the fastest car in the world is a rental car" comes to mind. Still waiting on that SH sarcasm font with all the forum changes...
Hi,
@TheOfficeT-Rex
Here is the Proof House standards that AI has to follow.
RULES, REGULATIONS AND SCALES, (gunproof.com)
Summarization:
2 rounds of a certified proof load (Typically 1.5x max CIP pressures) without affecting headspace by IIRC 2thou. Don't recall the exact measurement.
Also...loading to "wearing primer pockets" is no where near that pressure by the way. So the guy did not damage his bolt lugs by loading to wearing primer pockets out.
Unless using some of the lathe turned "hard" brass or the 2 piece case designs in which if you load to wear that primer pocket out in 1 firing.... you have exceeded Proof loads.
Also pretty sure AI uses standard industry alloys, no different than other manufacturers such as Sako, DSR, Alpine, PGM, Barrett, BAT, etc etc
Sincerely,
Theis
@TheOfficeT-Rex
Here is the Proof House standards that AI has to follow.
RULES, REGULATIONS AND SCALES, (gunproof.com)
Summarization:
2 rounds of a certified proof load (Typically 1.5x max CIP pressures) without affecting headspace by IIRC 2thou. Don't recall the exact measurement.
Also...loading to "wearing primer pockets" is no where near that pressure by the way. So the guy did not damage his bolt lugs by loading to wearing primer pockets out.
Unless using some of the lathe turned "hard" brass or the 2 piece case designs in which if you load to wear that primer pocket out in 1 firing.... you have exceeded Proof loads.
Also pretty sure AI uses standard industry alloys, no different than other manufacturers such as Sako, DSR, Alpine, PGM, Barrett, BAT, etc etc
Sincerely,
Theis
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Theis,
I actually have a copy of that document on my desktop already - as part of a separate research project. I was looking for more detail about the specific instance of someone peening and then grinding their AI bolt lugs. I want to believe there is more to it than 'ran hot loads, galled action, decided to grind locking lugs, kept shooting' as that sort of silliness doesn't pass the common sense test.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
and I'm in Roswell.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Maybe this guy
Accuracy International multi-piece bolt?
First, is the bolt the same between the AW and the AE? Second, is it made of multiple pieces? It's hard to tell, but in the photo at the top of page 6 of the Demigod review of the 338 Lapua rifles from AI and Sako: http://demigodllc.com/articles/military-338-lapua-rifles-trg42-awsm/?p=6 it...
www.snipershide.com
Maybe this guy
Accuracy International multi-piece bolt?
First, is the bolt the same between the AW and the AE? Second, is it made of multiple pieces? It's hard to tell, but in the photo at the top of page 6 of the Demigod review of the 338 Lapua rifles from AI and Sako: http://demigodllc.com/articles/military-338-lapua-rifles-trg42-awsm/?p=6 it...
Good find - but no mention of grinding lugs and continuing to shoot. I was hoping for more in depth redneck machining...
I believe that shooting over pressure repeatedly will cause damage, and I don't need any more tempting with Theis's space age alloy superrifles. I keep saying the next and last thing I buy (since I got my AI) is a Webley revolver then I'm done. I swear it this time.
Hi,
Anyone in this thread know of a brass cartridge case that handles 100k cartridge pressures without giving up the primer pocket with a single firing?
There is a reason that the PBM Ballistics 2 part case concept is needed in the High Pressure arena...blow primer pockets out and just unscrew that portion of the case and throw it away without discarding the entire cartridge case.
There is a reason the High Pressure arena ammunition for the NGSW is testing a couple different cartridge case concepts/designs..because standard brass cases give up the ghost well before the firearm does.
@TheOfficeT-Rex
I would agree that there had to be much more to that story. Would be pretty complex set of compounding errors that would allow a weaker alloy (Cartridge case) to be routinely pushed with enough bolt thrust to damage AIs' bolt lugs. To damage the bolt lugs you would have to be well past "primer pocket wear" and pushing case head separation pressures.
Sincerely,
Theis
Anyone in this thread know of a brass cartridge case that handles 100k cartridge pressures without giving up the primer pocket with a single firing?
There is a reason that the PBM Ballistics 2 part case concept is needed in the High Pressure arena...blow primer pockets out and just unscrew that portion of the case and throw it away without discarding the entire cartridge case.
There is a reason the High Pressure arena ammunition for the NGSW is testing a couple different cartridge case concepts/designs..because standard brass cases give up the ghost well before the firearm does.
@TheOfficeT-Rex
I would agree that there had to be much more to that story. Would be pretty complex set of compounding errors that would allow a weaker alloy (Cartridge case) to be routinely pushed with enough bolt thrust to damage AIs' bolt lugs. To damage the bolt lugs you would have to be well past "primer pocket wear" and pushing case head separation pressures.
Sincerely,
Theis
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On my 300 PRC I just got scared... started pushing 2950+ with 230s and figured something has to be dangerous despite zero pressure signs.
Actually, I pushed them to the upper 2900s before backing off. @b2lee is the crazy mother who pushes his 300 PRC to brass-crashing levels and can provide some info around playing in the fringe limits of the cartridge.
Well, there was a reason I backed off
I found a node at just above 2850 that is much more comfortable to shoot.
Even I have backed off a bit. Mid 2900's is plenty fine for me....heck...right now I'm playing in the 2880fps range just because I'm trying to preserve my brass life in these challenging times. As soon as brass is back in plentiful supply and I can use it and discard it like a chick on vacation....I'll be back up a bit...but probably only in the 2950fps region.
