I doubt very seriously it's a scam. My John Hancock shoots light out.
5 rounds - 100 yards.
My first 500 yard shot.
My first 1000 yard, 5 shot group...just over 5"
If it's a scam, PVA is doing it wrong.
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PVA John Hancock Rifle Status
- Thread starter Bitjglr
- Start date
I doubt very seriously it's a scam. My John Hancock shoots light out.
5 rounds - 100 yards.
My first 500 yard shot.
My first 1000 yard, 5 shot group...just over 5"
If it's a scam, PVA is doing it wrong.
Hard to shoot tight groups with a rifle that doesn’t fucking existing. Brightest.
JFC.
Bait and Switch, I don't think so......IMHO
Failure to anticipate the actual demand, YES
Try to get out from under the deposits already taken do to actual cost overruns and a non existent profit margin, YES
Should you just apologize and refund deposits for rifles not yet delivered, YES.....IMHO
Failure to anticipate the actual demand, YES
Try to get out from under the deposits already taken do to actual cost overruns and a non existent profit margin, YES
Should you just apologize and refund deposits for rifles not yet delivered, YES.....IMHO
Those deposits bought inventory, machines and went to payroll. That money isn’t just sitting there waiting in an account labeled “hard earned customers money for JHR orders only”
I like josh. A lot. He has answered questions out of the blue for me and others on any rifle topic you can think. But we’ve seen this song sung and danced too before. I admire his attempt. But this went south fast. Yes he builds a great rifle. When he finally builds them. He just told all of you JHR customers that you’re on the back burner while he pushes and sells barrels. I pray he can pull out from this. But being a super nice guy doesn’t put rifles out the door.
I like josh. A lot. He has answered questions out of the blue for me and others on any rifle topic you can think. But we’ve seen this song sung and danced too before. I admire his attempt. But this went south fast. Yes he builds a great rifle. When he finally builds them. He just told all of you JHR customers that you’re on the back burner while he pushes and sells barrels. I pray he can pull out from this. But being a super nice guy doesn’t put rifles out the door.
I would like a JHR but you can't even place an order at the current time. Its been over a year since the announcement of the rifle and you still can't order the rifle. This caught my eye because of the switch barrel potential. I could build one for less. BH Origin 825, Bravo Chassis 429, Criterion Barrel prefit 375, mag 80, muzzle break 120 and TT trigger 150. 2K.
I’m just here for more dildo pics.
P.S.-Buy a MRAD
P.S.-Buy a MRAD
As far as I can tell I never mentioned anything about whether or not any JHR would or not shoot lights out when I made my comment about a bait and switch.
You offer a product that won't be delivered in the time frame stated (not even close!) so you encourage the customers to buy a different one of your products instead of manning up and offering a refund on the product you can't supply. In my book that's a bait and switch!
I have 2 JHR's, 6 Dasher and a 6 Creedmoor, which both shoot "lights out" also but after being ignored and lied to for a year I sure as hell won't spend another penny with PVA. As I told in another thread, I have 2 friends who wanted to order a rifle from PVA and after suggesting they read the threads here on SH they decided not to. I suggested LRI to them.
11/29/18 I ordered my JHR... Left handed... I emailed 10/15/19 and was told
"We are still not exactly sure when we are going to have the remainder of Hancock's "out the door" at this moment. Do you prefer I change your order and remain waiting or do you prefer to use your deposit toward store credit for a barrel or muzzle brakes etc? Thank you! "
I really wanted a nice left handed bolt gun. I will give it a few more months, but waiting more than a year and a half is not worth it..
"We are still not exactly sure when we are going to have the remainder of Hancock's "out the door" at this moment. Do you prefer I change your order and remain waiting or do you prefer to use your deposit toward store credit for a barrel or muzzle brakes etc? Thank you! "
I really wanted a nice left handed bolt gun. I will give it a few more months, but waiting more than a year and a half is not worth it..
I called last week, said they should be receiving more actions in the next couple weeks. Fingers crossed, I ordered in August of 2018.
It's sad.
They have come on this very thread and addressed barrels and recent orders, but they have NOT addressed several orders that have been outstanding for over a year.
Not sure what you mean here? Josh did come on and re-state the offer to change to a store credit, and I think part of the reason he did that was that they don't know when they will have all the parts to complete them (for whatever reasons). There are at least 3 threads, if not 4, that I've seen on PVA comments in the past month so, yeah, it's hard to know where he posted the info.
however, if you want to know hour order status or ETA (if any), a forum is not the best way to get that info. Contact PVA directly and get your answers. I think their focus is on the shop work and not as much on forum posting right now.
It would be good for those of you who have waited this long to have Option 3: A full refund of your deposit with
an apology. Just saying.
Yet still no rifles or full refunds.
What the hell good is a store credit if you don't have a rifle?
that store credit goes towards a rifle if you want one. same as if you were paying full payment on a JHR.
The bottom line where I come from:
Take my money, give me product.
Can't delivery product in timely fashion, give me money back. Not a store credit.
But I am not directly affected by this as I was waiting until they had them in stock ready to ship.
That ship has sailed.
Shoot.....sorry sunk.
Take my money, give me product.
Can't delivery product in timely fashion, give me money back. Not a store credit.
But I am not directly affected by this as I was waiting until they had them in stock ready to ship.
That ship has sailed.
Shoot.....sorry sunk.
Wow, really?
You ordered a rifle 18 months ago and we haven't delivered it, we'll give you a store credit for a rifle that we won't deliver.
If you can apply it to a new rifle, why not just build the one they fucking ordered?
Aaaand you're wrong. Again. You're standing here on a soap box beating a drum like a Democrat politician stating we aren't doing something and yet, multiple times including inside of the last 2 weeks I've posted in this forum that there are 3 options currently offered. One is EXACTLY what you're claiming is "the correct solution"
1) 110% store credit
2) 100% refund
3) Wait
The parts in the Hancock are extremely specific. Including the branding that is etched into the steel of the receiver body. If one or more of those parts are not sitting here then it's not a Hancock.
Let's try it this way, since you don't understand what it means for the Private Labeled receiver to be on the rifle.
You want a Ford
There are no more Fords right now, however a custom built Chevy is available.
Still a vehicle (rifle), still drives around (goes pew pew), still takes you where you want to go (shoots targets)... just doesn't say Ford (Hancock) on the side.
You can have 3 options
Take your money back
Turn 100% of your money PLUS 10% into a deposit on a Chevy that the parts are availble for RFN
Sit there and wait for your Ford.
You're misinformed too.
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The $250 you deposited went towards the excise tax. Not in PVA's piggy bank. If you paid attention to what the actual delay is caused by, you would know that if you decided to use to store credit on a different action in a rifle, you would get said rifle in a quick fashion. Its not like PVA has 200 JHR's sitting on a fucking shelf collecting dust. Barrels, triggers, and stocks are waiting on actions. My advice to anyone waiting on a JHR that wants a rifle asap, use the credit, put it toward an Origin build and get your rifle in a timely fashion.
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Then why promise delivery of a ford?
Sorry. Look, I have no axe to grind here, I have been a member here for quite a while and it always amazes me that so many smiths end up in these types of threads. You always have the few that get their shit defending the smith against the poor son of a bitch that is out his money.
You are building rifles from actions that are supplied by a third party. Are they the problem? (apparently not)
You are using barrels supplied by a third party. (apparently not, you have had several barrel specials)
You are using stocks provided by a third party. Could be.
And on down the line.
Now, I fully understand that there can and will be delays.
But if I ordered a Ford, I obviously wanted a Ford.
Waiting over a year for a "production" gun seems excessive to me.
Hope it all works out. For you and your customers.
You have done serious damage to your business with this fiasco.
You certainly act like you have an axe to grind. Your list of "You are" has errors in it. I'm not going to sit here and air dirty laundry between people working on fixing an issue. Guess why? It's literally none of your business. You're not waiting on a rifle, you're not dealing with a rifle that has an issue, you don't understand anything about the legalities of making a rifle... you have as much legitimacy in the conversation as Diane Feinstein telling us how many clips the magazines hold.
The ONLY point you made, and I addressed multiple times was refunds. Since that dead horse has been whipped numerous times, I'm moving on to the actual work I have to do today.
People who actually have skin in the game are being addressed personally, not on open forums where the public, ignorant of issues at hand, can weigh in without any understanding.
For the guys waiting on rifles, that sucks. At least you are being addressed (here as well as privately I assume). A couple of thoughts that seem to be missed in this thread:
-PRS Production class rifle does not mean that they are constantly in production in reality.
-The JHR is a custom rifle IMHO - which is why it is built to order, not sitting on the shelf.
-When orders were placed it was well known there would be lead times for delivery (Obviously the lead times have come and gone, unfortunately all too common in the industry).
-PVA is giving you multiple options to deal with the issue to your satisfaction. If you decide to wait, why bitch about it, you know you're gonna wait longer...
As I stated earlier, I purchased one here on the hide from another member and it is an absolute HAMMER!!! We need more options, not less therefor I am rooting for PVA to pull this one off and continue in good fashion.
-PRS Production class rifle does not mean that they are constantly in production in reality.
-The JHR is a custom rifle IMHO - which is why it is built to order, not sitting on the shelf.
-When orders were placed it was well known there would be lead times for delivery (Obviously the lead times have come and gone, unfortunately all too common in the industry).
-PVA is giving you multiple options to deal with the issue to your satisfaction. If you decide to wait, why bitch about it, you know you're gonna wait longer...
As I stated earlier, I purchased one here on the hide from another member and it is an absolute HAMMER!!! We need more options, not less therefor I am rooting for PVA to pull this one off and continue in good fashion.
The next ones will be coming with what is nearly a Nuke 2.0; the difference is, as I understand it only lacking the keyed rail. All other updates have been applied.
Thank you, Sir
I'm glad to hear you like your rifle and are getting great performance from it.
I am only relaying what my situation is. For a long time I followed a thread about members waiting and then finally getting rifles. Then there was silence or I missed threads and the original was locked. Bohem says there are 3 options posted within the past 2 weeks. I guess I should have been more aggressive in trying to find information. This thread was 3 months old before I commented, and my email was from around the same time.
I didn't see the thread mentioned in your link that is showing status. If you have a thread where you have posting updates it would be helpful. It is nice to know others are getting rifles and the line is moving. If my wait is another year away, I will opt out, but if there is light at the end of the tunnel, I can hold.
I didn't see the thread mentioned in your link that is showing status. If you have a thread where you have posting updates it would be helpful. It is nice to know others are getting rifles and the line is moving. If my wait is another year away, I will opt out, but if there is light at the end of the tunnel, I can hold.
Anybody had any luck recently? Called back in the summer and was told my rifle would likely be in the next batch, called early January and they said actions should be rolling in over the next couple weeks, then called last week and was told they were still waiting on actions.
Has it really been that long since they shipped out a rifle?
If I'm this frustrated I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for PVA, I only have 1 rifle to worry about, I assume they have at least dozens to worry about.
Has it really been that long since they shipped out a rifle?
If I'm this frustrated I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for PVA, I only have 1 rifle to worry about, I assume they have at least dozens to worry about.
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Your options are:
1. Refund
2. Store credit
3. Wait
If you choose wait, good luck. I don't think you'll ever see a rifle. I chose option #1 which they always had an excuse for not sending. Ended up successfully disputing the the charge on my credit card. Good luck.
1. Refund
2. Store credit
3. Wait
If you choose wait, good luck. I don't think you'll ever see a rifle. I chose option #1 which they always had an excuse for not sending. Ended up successfully disputing the the charge on my credit card. Good luck.
Josh addressed this in the podcast he was on with Frank, its sounded like there were very few left to deliver. Hopefully this is put to bed soon and PVA gets all caught up.
Has anyone gotten a better explanation of this? ARC has had actions in stock for many months - how long does it take to add a different logo? Who is that delay on?
For anyone still waiting on a JHR, I suggest you take the refund option and take your business elsewhere. Josh has made it very clear that he places extremely low priority on any JHR order. No telling how his after purchase suport would be for these down the road if the up front is so bad. We know Josh will do as he always does and blame someone else, never taking responsibility for his faults or mistakes. He can't (theorized as possibly due to cash flow issues) or won't take the actions necessary to deliver the JHRs to customers that ordered them.
Strongly recommend you just get your money back and then stay away from PVA. It's not worth it. There are way too many other really good smiths that can deliver same or better quality without the pain of dealing with Josh.
Strongly recommend you just get your money back and then stay away from PVA. It's not worth it. There are way too many other really good smiths that can deliver same or better quality without the pain of dealing with Josh.
Absolutely. I just ordered a barrel about 2 weeks back and have it in hand.
Awesome! I saw the 3-6 week time frame but then got skeptical after reading this thread. I'm still a few months or longer out from getting the barrel anyways. Just wanted to make sure.
Barrels are great. Shoot lights out. His lead times on barrels are way down unless it’s something he doesn’t have on hand already
There are many parallels between this and J Allen. I had a discussion once with Lisa about the pitfalls of taking deposits. Having the initial cash flow is bad in the sense that it typically goes towards paying expenses and when it is exhausted it causes financial stress on the business. Pre orders for the most part are a scam and I would never do one without the mind set that I may never see the product again.
