PVA Status Updates: Hancock Rifle & NUCLEUS Barreled Action

[toxic]

Heard back from KRG, since my trigger guard is aluminum it does not require a washer on the rear action screw. Good thing because a washer doesn't fit.

 

[Dooby]

Heard back from KRG, since my trigger guard is aluminum it does not require a washer on the rear action screw. Good thing because a washer doesn't fit.

Did they mention the front washers too? Since you had really good groups with only one washer.

It was a bit difficult screwing in the front especially with the 2 washers

 

[toxic]

Did they mention the front washers too? Since you had really good groups with only one washer.

It was a bit difficult screwing in the front especially with the 2 washers

Nope they didn't say anything about the front washers, didn't ask about them though either.

 

[toxic]

@toxic i used 2 washers in the front and 1 i the rear

What height arc rings are those? 1.1 or .94. Thanking about selling my seekins 1.26 and going with either the 1.0 vortex pmr or the arc rings. Just not sure if the .94 would be quite tall enough. Is yours med palma or heavy palma? Mine's heavy palma.

 

[Dooby]

@toxic ARC low rings. I think 0.94? Bbl is heavy palma 22". Optics is 3-18x50mm Razor G2.

I prefer straight taper, M40, MTU, but wanted it a bit lighter. That said the rifle weighs 16.8 lbs lol. Oops.

 

[Dooby]

@toxic got confirmation from Massoud on the washers. it's 2... that said if 1 worked for you and it's accurate, i don't see any issues running just one. more threads is better? I'm new to this so not sure.

Post #464

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...sis-lets-see-them.110635/page-10#post-7922851

 

[toxic]

Started load development with my PVA nucleus 26" 6.5 creedmoor.

Components used are:
Virgin Lapua 6.5 SRP brass
CCI #450
Hodgdon H4350 40.5-43.5 in .3gr increments
Hornady 147 ELD Match
Seated to 2.80"

Velocity from Labradar.

Factory Hornady 147 ELD M
2696
2679
2681
2705
2710
2720
2694
2698
2688
?
ES: 41.61 SD: 13.53 AVG: 2696.72

40.5
2631
2635
2615
ES: 19.05 SD: 10.18 AVG: 2627.08

40.8
2635
2631
2622
ES: 13.27 SD: 6.71 AVG: 2629.33

41.1
2677
2646
2654
ES: 30.93 SD: 16.03 AVG: 2659.34

41.4
2664
2655
2661
ES: 8.74 SD: 4.45 AVG: 2660.12

41.7
2685
2695
2667
ES: 27.65 SD: 14.07 AVG: 2682.18

42.0
?
2707
2689
ES: 18.03 SD: 12.75 AVG: 2698.39

42.3
2725
2720
2719
ES: 6.62 SD: 3.45 AVG: 2721.46

42.6
?
2742
2724
ES: 18.57 SD: 13.13 AVG: 2733

42.9
2742
2745
2733
ES: 12.19 SD: 6.27 AVG: 2739.84

43.2
2764
2753
2746
ES: 18.54 SD 9.32 AVG: 2754.2

43.5
2767
2772
2773
ES: 6.07 SD: 3.19 AVG: 2770.83

All brass looks excellent, and groups are pretty good also. Shot in order NOT round robin. Thinking 42.3-42.9 is a node based on nearly identical POI. Also looks like 43.2-43.5+ could be another node. Was hoping to see 2800+, will it get faster now that the brass is fired? Do I dare go higher than 43.5?

Never really done an OCW, always just loaded 5 of each and shot them, best group i loaded more and if they still grouped good, that was my load. Not sure how to proceed without wasting barrel life.

 

[SpeedyR]

anyone received a John Hancock recently?

with the barrels going out fairly quickly (at least some of them from the sales) and the actions seemingly available from ARC wondering if they might be coming out sooner. Right hand nucleus actions are showing in stock, not sure if the backlog on the KRG Bravo is still a hold up.

I'm also assuming that PVA and ARC aren't doing as much together these days. I noticed that all of the ARC stuff is off the website. No magazines, scope rings, actions, barrel wrenches, etc are MIA.

sorry to see that (assuming I'm correct) as I am hoping the ARC/PVA combo is still the hammer it's supposed to be. The John Hancock is still listed on the website but still "not accepting orders till backorders are fulfilled".

guess I could email/call them but just thought I'd see if anyone has received a JH recently..

 

[Ckell89]

anyone received a John Hancock recently?

with the barrels going out fairly quickly (at least some of them from the sales) and the actions seemingly available from ARC wondering if they might be coming out sooner. Right hand nucleus actions are showing in stock, not sure if the backlog on the KRG Bravo is still a hold up.

I'm also assuming that PVA and ARC aren't doing as much together these days. I noticed that all of the ARC stuff is off the website. No magazines, scope rings, actions, barrel wrenches, etc are MIA.

sorry to see that (assuming I'm correct) as I am hoping the ARC/PVA combo is still the hammer it's supposed to be. The John Hancock is still listed on the website but still "not accepting orders till backorders are fulfilled".

guess I could email/call them but just thought I'd see if anyone has received a JH recently..

FWIW I ordered in February and still haven't heard anything (not that I expect to even though I was quoted six months)

JHR in .308, FDE stock right hand

 

[j741]

anyone received a John Hancock recently?

with the barrels going out fairly quickly (at least some of them from the sales) and the actions seemingly available from ARC wondering if they might be coming out sooner. Right hand nucleus actions are showing in stock, not sure if the backlog on the KRG Bravo is still a hold up.

I'm also assuming that PVA and ARC aren't doing as much together these days. I noticed that all of the ARC stuff is off the website. No magazines, scope rings, actions, barrel wrenches, etc are MIA.

sorry to see that (assuming I'm correct) as I am hoping the ARC/PVA combo is still the hammer it's supposed to be. The John Hancock is still listed on the website but still "not accepting orders till backorders are fulfilled".

guess I could email/call them but just thought I'd see if anyone has received a JH recently..

I'm sure your rifle will be impressive when it does arrive. I don't think anyone has had issues with Josh's work, just issues with the communication and timeline (which are understandable frustrations).

With the approach Ted & ARC seem to have recently taken, I'm not surprised to see their stuff off PVA's site. Just look at their multi-month delays on the Archimedes and their new chassis. Maybe the Archimedes starts shipping in a few weeks, only 3 + months past their commitment, but no ETA yet on the chassis which was also supposedly the same timeframe. Maybe ARC is focusing more on the shiny new objects and not paying the attention other companies do to actual existing products. Seems smart of a business to drop reliance on an apparently unreliable supplier.

 

[SpeedyR]

I'm sure your rifle will be impressive when it does arrive. I don't think anyone has had issues with Josh's work, just issues with the communication and timeline (which are understandable frustrations).

With the approach Ted & ARC seem to have recently taken, I'm not surprised to see their stuff off PVA's site. Just look at their multi-month delays on the Archimedes and their new chassis. Maybe the Archimedes starts shipping in a few weeks, only 3 + months past their commitment, but no ETA yet on the chassis which was also supposedly the same timeframe. Maybe ARC is focusing more on the shiny new objects and not paying the attention other companies do to actual existing products. Seems smart of a business to drop reliance on an apparently unreliable supplier.

I agree. Everything I have read points to the JH and anything PVA makes being a solid product. I've worked in a few industries where time lines for new products are.. shall we say.. varied. I tend to not show products at shows until I have them either in production or on the way if being made overseas. PVA may have delays but I have yet to hear anyone say that it wasn't worth the wait. I don't mind the wait, just was curious to hear if anyone else had received a JH in the past month or two. I'll contact them and see if I can get an ETA. No rush for me just wanting to have the rest of the parts lined up for when it arrives.

 

[Flightmurse]

Although I have no doubt that this will be an awesome stick, I have officially passed my longest wait time for a tax stamp. I am writing it off at this point, I am getting salty with pva constantly posting Facebook and Instagram updates on their barrel sales and new brakes but not a peep on the John Hancocks in over a month. If it ever shows up then awesome, but I’m not counting on it anymore.

 

[SpeedyR]

Although I have no doubt that this will be an awesome stick, I have officially passed my longest wait time for a tax stamp. I am writing it off at this point, I am getting salty with pva constantly posting Facebook and Instagram updates on their barrel sales and new brakes but not a peep on the John Hancocks in over a month. If it ever shows up then awesome, but I’m not counting on it anymore.

A little bit of my same thinking. ARC has Nucleus actions in stock, AFAIK KRG is shipping bravo stocks, and I know Rock Creek has 6.5 barrels in stock (and PVA had a bunch of them, but maybe just shorter versions?). Maybe Timney is out of triggers? I ordered two cans around the same time frame (Oct/Nov 2018) and it's a race to see what arrives first. At least I know the cans are made and sitting in a safe waiting for the feds to do their thing. Funny that the BATFE may beat out PVA for speed.

 

[Geno C.]

A little bit of my same thinking. ARC has Nucleus actions in stock, AFAIK KRG is shipping bravo stocks, and I know Rock Creek has 6.5 barrels in stock (and PVA had a bunch of them, but maybe just shorter versions?). Maybe Timney is out of triggers? I ordered two cans around the same time frame (Oct/Nov 2018) and it's a race to see what arrives first. At least I know the cans are made and sitting in a safe waiting for the feds to do their thing. Funny that the BATFE may beat out PVA for speed.

Not funny

 

[b6graham]

Not funny

funny like ha ha i have cancer funny

 

[canezach]

I agree. Everything I have read points to the JH and anything PVA makes being a solid product. I've worked in a few industries where time lines for new products are.. shall we say.. varied. I tend to not show products at shows until I have them either in production or on the way if being made overseas. PVA may have delays but I have yet to hear anyone say that it wasn't worth the wait.

The issue isn't the wait, per se. The issue is the wait combined with far exceeded lead times and a lack of communication. You're right that no one says their rifles aren't worth the wait, but I also hear that of guys like Jon Beanland, RWS, etc, and those guys are pretty good about sticking to their lead times or putting out their products really close to their quoted times. Besides, it's not like PVA is putting out a 1/4 MOA rifle while everyone else is struggling to get 1 MOA at best. My local smith cut, chambered, threaded, and mounted my barrel. It stacks bullets one on top the others. it also took him three days from "Here are my parts" to "Hey, your rifle is ready!"

 

[SpeedyR]

The issue isn't the wait, per se. The issue is the wait combined with far exceeded lead times and a lack of communication. You're right that no one says their rifles aren't worth the wait, but I also hear that of guys like Jon Beanland, RWS, etc, and those guys are pretty good about sticking to their lead times or putting out their products really close to their quoted times. Besides, it's not like PVA is putting out a 1/4 MOA rifle while everyone else is struggling to get 1 MOA at best. My local smith cut, chambered, threaded, and mounted my barrel. It stacks bullets one on top the others. it also took him three days from "Here are my parts" to "Hey, your rifle is ready!"

I guess I had been hoping that with all the "lead time for barrels is 3-5 weeks" that you see on their social media that maybe they were getting caught up on JH rifles. I would think that they would want them out there for the public to shoot. I know they have made great strides in production capabilities and CS the past year, and was hoping to hear that at least a few folks had received JH rifles in the past few weeks/months and that production was catching up. I'll email them and see what they say.

 

[Flightmurse]

I asked on a Facebook post of theirs and was told they are experiencing “part sourcing problems”.

 

[Jeeper48]

I asked on a Facebook post of theirs and was told they are experiencing “part sourcing problems”.

I get why they are reluctant to say which part it is, the last time they said it was Bravos, KRG got on to defend themselves. They could be providing JHR customers better updates though through email. Based on the last FB post about 30 minutes ago, it will be 4-6 more weeks before older work gets done as they are running 3 barrel sales.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Man, I just don't understand this.

I don't have a dog in this hunt...anymore, but it just boggles my mind that this has gone the way it has.
There has to be a logical explanation to all these delays, but I'm just not seeing one. I hope Josh and Jeremy get this worked out real soon. They certainly make some fine products.

 

[brianf]

id bet its cash flow:

it just may be a part/component issue..or the paying for it

its most likely aging inventory eating up cash flow

kills the ability to pay bills for new parts

but you need new parts to move the aging inventory...


hope they get it sorted out soon, what ever the reason

 

[beenawhile1]

There aren't any ARC actions on the PVA website right now.

 

[Random_Scrub]

There aren't any ARC actions on the PVA website right now.

Been that for at least 5 months now.

 

[brianf]

I think both companies are having the same issue.

Everyone does pre sales to get money /cash flow moving to afford the components/materials.

But I could be totally wrong on both counts

 

[SpeedyR]

I sent an email earlier to this week for an update. I'll give them a call next week after the holidays and see if I can get a better ETA. Headed down to the precision rifle expo next month and had been hoping to have the rifle prior to the event.

Personally I don't mind paying for the rifle in full if I thought it would make delivery happen in the next few weeks. I certainly understand cash flow and expanding your business. Overtrading can be a killer for small businesses. I had assumed from others experiences that it would be 4-8 months for the rifle, but didn't think I'd get my suppressors before the rifle. lol.

 

[patriot07]

I get why they are reluctant to say which part it is, the last time they said it was Bravos, KRG got on to defend themselves.

It seems what you mean is - last time they tried to claim that it was someone's else's fault, they got called out on the lie.

 

[Ckell89]

"We can't source the parts for the rifle. But you can't have a refund, we need that money for stuff."

-PVA, probably

 

[canezach]

Based on the last FB post about 30 minutes ago, it will be 4-6 more weeks before older work gets done as they are running 3 barrel sales.

Let's say I've taken my wife to dinner,. We've been seated and the waitress has already taken our order. In the meantime, I'm watching customers who are coming in after me be seated, eat, pay their tab and leave before my food has even been served. Now the manager is coming to my table to tell me, "I know you've already ordered your meal, but we just put our hamburgers on sale after you ordered, so I told the cook to make all the hamburger orders before he starts grilling your steak. There is nothing you can say or do about it that will get you your steak any quicker. You can always go somewhere else, but if you do, I'm going to charge you for sitting in our restaurant. Thanks!"

 

[Steel head]

Let's say I've taken my wife to dinner,. We've been seated and the waitress has already taken our order. In the meantime, I'm watching customers who are coming in after me be seated, eat, pay their tab and leave before my food has even been served. Now the manager is coming to my table to tell me, "I know you've already ordered your meal, but we just put our hamburgers on sale after you ordered, so I told the cook to make all the hamburger orders before he starts grilling your steak. There is nothing you can say or do about it that will get you your steak any quicker. You can always go somewhere else, but if you do, I'm going to charge you for sitting in our restaurant. Thanks!"

Solution-bump out a quickie in the bathroom with wife the crop dust on your way out.

 

[Rambonee]

I hope they get some actions put together soon. I am well over a year now..................

 

[TheMammoth]

It’s such a shame to hear all of this still happening. I waited forever for my JH and had a few issues with light strikes but other than that it is REALLY good, then waited an eternity for a barrel for a Tikka and that is VERY good also.

I hope PVA can sort themselves. Their waits are becoming notorious in a very bad way.

 

[Ckell89]

It’s such a shame to hear all of this still happening. I waited forever for my JH and had a few issues with light strikes but other than that it is REALLY good, then waited an eternity for a barrel for a Tikka and that is VERY good also.

I hope PVA can sort themselves. Their waits are becoming notorious in a very bad way.

Thats about the only thing keeping me from demanding a refund and chargeback. Its still a terrible, terrible business practice and I definitely wouldn't buy from them again. MPA ships within 1-2 months MAX and arguably provide an equal product at the same price.

 

[Dooby]

@bohem Will the BigHorn/Remington/Savage Action Wrench be back in stock any time?

Also, is it necessary to remove Big Horn's mechanical Ejector when using this Action Wrench?

thanks!

 

[FbSa]

I called last week and they said they were waiting on parts for the JHRs and to call back in a couple weeks. I just recently passed the year anniversary of my order. I'll just keep checking with them every couple months until it's done.

 

[Bitjglr]

This month is one year for me. I feel PVA; to be blunt has been dishonest about the status of these rifles. It's always something, marking variance, barrels, actions, stocks... really? I think, as was mentioned above it's probably a cash flow problem. Also I'm curious, how big is their backlog of John Hancock Rifles and what percentage has been completed. I bet we would all be disappointed to learn that number.

 

[Bravo6niner]

9 months today and still waiting on a prefit barrel.

 

[ChadL]

9 months today and still waiting on a prefit barrel.

Is it a left handed pre-fit? ?

 

[Bravo6niner]

Is it a left handed pre-fit? ?

LOL!!

Standard AI prefit cut rifle barrel. Didn’t get a straight answer for about 3 months then it was that they couldn’t get blanks. Around first of July they were getting barrels in “this week”. From July till present it has been “we’ll get it done in 3-4weeks”

Still waiting ?

 

[SpeedyR]

I sent email but didn't get reply. So I called today, got the "waiting on parts from a supplier" answer. My order was from November 2018, what I thought would be a pretty standard setup (John Hancock, 6.5CM, FDE stock, RH). I knew there would be a wait for the rifle, and had hoped to get some shooting in before hunting season. Heck as I said before I bought 2 suppressors that went in first week of December, and it looks like I'll get them out of jail before I get the rifle.

I asked if they had any ETA, and got a nope. Asked if it would be before the end of the year, and I didn't get a very hopeful response. I guess I'll ask on my next call (he said to call back) and see if paying up front would move things along. But then again, not sure I want to put more into it without something written that it might get finished sooner. They had been up front about issues for a while but radio silence the past few months again. Not a good sign.

This will be my first dedicated long range rifle, guess I should have bought the Tikka and shot that for a while before putting money down on a PVA. If i haven't gotten it by SHOT at least I can stop by the booth and see what's going on. If they are back this year.

 

[kriller134]

Also, is it necessary to remove Big Horn's mechanical Ejector when using this Action Wrench?

thanks!

No it’s not necessary. There’s a slot cut in it for the ejector.

 

[Flightmurse]

Well that is reassuring. It has to be actions that they can’t get, everything else shows in stock on their site. Maybe a shift to a Bighorn origin?

 

[b6graham]

Well that is reassuring. It has to be actions that they can’t get, everything else shows in stock on their site. Maybe a shift to a Bighorn origin?

ATF variance

 

[BLDTYLRY]

I sent email but didn't get reply. So I called today, got the "waiting on parts from a supplier" answer. My order was from November 2018, what I thought would be a pretty standard setup (John Hancock, 6.5CM, FDE stock, RH). I knew there would be a wait for the rifle, and had hoped to get some shooting in before hunting season. Heck as I said before I bought 2 suppressors that went in first week of December, and it looks like I'll get them out of jail before I get the rifle.

I asked if they had any ETA, and got a nope. Asked if it would be before the end of the year, and I didn't get a very hopeful response. I guess I'll ask on my next call (he said to call back) and see if paying up front would move things along. But then again, not sure I want to put more into it without something written that it might get finished sooner. They had been up front about issues for a while but radio silence the past few months again. Not a good sign.

This will be my first dedicated long range rifle, guess I should have bought the Tikka and shot that for a while before putting money down on a PVA. If i haven't gotten it by SHOT at least I can stop by the booth and see what's going on. If they are back this year.

I'd stay on top of them. Find out which supplier and contact the supplier. I had a similar conversation when I was getting delayed for a Nucleus barreled action. PVA said the part was delayed indefiintely. Called ARC and asked if I could buy the part PVA said they were waiting on and within a few days I had the unavailable part in my hands. Sent PVA the receipt and tracking info and my barreled action arrived a few weeks later. All in all my transaction took 16-mos, some was due to ARC but the rest was PVA.

 

[SpeedyR]

I checked a few before I called- ARC looks like they are shipping Nucleus actions (from what I can gather on their website, says right hand actions in stock and ready to ship, sorry lefties (3-4 months)). KGR has bravos ready to ship. Timney seems to have triggers in stock (haven't really heard of them being out). That leaves Rock Creek. I know they have been putting out 6.5 barrels, but shorter ones. They do say on their website that they are accepting orders, that's a good sign.

My guess is they don't want to say where the hold up is in production, as that has gotten them in trouble in the past...

 

[j741]

We know that previously Ted & ARC previously prioritized their own retail shipments over providing the actions to PVA even though PVA had agreements and 'pre-orders' in place. ARC shipped action to end users that ordered months after the PVA pre-orders while at the same time not delivering the quantities that PVA has needed. With ARC now being late with their 'latest & greatest' new action & chassis I wouldn't be surprised if Ted is prioritizing their shiny new stuff over delivering Hancock actions to Josh. May be the reason why no ARC products on the PVA site is that ARC can't or won't deliver on them reliably.

Hopefully Josh is working on using an Origin as the base action for the rifle as the support behind Big Horn actions seems light years ahead of ARC. They seem to work towards delivering on customer orders and not just chasing something new that then requires multiple iterations to get close to right. I had a pre-orders on the new ARC actions & chassis but just can't support how they do things so I instead bailed all 4 pre-orders for a refund and ordered a Manners stock as well as a long action Origin. Both are companies I'd rather support.

For PVA, I'd still like to support them even with this bad experience on the Hancock or Origin barreled actions.They do seem to have delivered on the individual barrel orders where they don't have a reliance on ARC.

 

[LRI]

We know that previously Ted & ARC previously prioritized their own retail shipments over providing the actions to PVA even though PVA had agreements and 'pre-orders' in place. ARC shipped action to end users that ordered months after the PVA pre-orders while at the same time not delivering the quantities that PVA has needed. With ARC now being late with their 'latest & greatest' new action & chassis I wouldn't be surprised if Ted is prioritizing their shiny new stuff over delivering Hancock actions to Josh. May be the reason why no ARC products on the PVA site is that ARC can't or won't deliver on them reliably.

- Roughly one year ago I received over 100 Mausingfield actions from ARC. They were ordered in August of 2018. Delivery took place in November. These actions were previously made and in various states of completion. I wanted some additional features added to them and agreed to the whole lot provided they were delivered by Black Friday.

The bill for that was well into the 6 figures. ARC was paid in full within 120 days of them hitting our floor. That payment schedule was negotiated and agreed upon WELL in advance of anyone doing anything and it was adhered to.

Any other vendor can/could do the same.

ARC has Nucleus actions on the floor ready to be delivered. Oodles of them.

Supply is not the problem.