Night Vision PVS-27 and 30 questions

[flyfisherman246]

I'm in the market for a clip on. I have shot both the 27 and the 30's but not side by side. I have read all I can about the topic and still can't come up with an answer. Other than the 27 being bigger and heavier, but easier to adjust the focus. And the 30's being smaller and lighter and harder to adjust the focus. Is there a difference between them as far as clarity, magnification range, and just overall shoot ability? I'm alright with the extra weight and size of the 27 as long as you can see just as well out to the same distances.

Also, what does FOM mean and what is a good number to look for?

There all are kinds of used 27 and 30's out there. There are refurbs, unissued, bought new from TNVC and used. What should I be looking for, and what do I need to stay away from? How many hours can you expect out of the life of a tube? Does that start over when refurbed?

 

[PlinkIt]

Not a NV expert, but this might get you started

FOM= Figure of merit
closer to 2k or more the better...
seen several reports that the FOM numbers are not always a direct representation one is better than the other though....

I'm not familiar with the units particularly, but larger lens (27) should allow a little more light and little more magnification to be used, but at expense of weight.

 

[Rinky]

I wont be able to answer all your questions specifically but can still share some info since I own a white phosphor pvs-30.

Its heavy, it's not incredibly small but its solid as all hell. Its smaller and lighter than the pvs27 sure but still big and heavy. The focus on my 30 sucks and I typically set it to about 200yds and leave it unless I have tons of time to adjust it. I hunt coyotes at night with it. Nightvision focus is so touchy that I set it and forget it due to moving targets and the pvs30 focus stiffness. Theres just more important things I worry about when a coyote is coming in.

FOM is resolution of the tube times the SNR of the tube. L3 and Harris bracket their resolutions based on human worker observations typically in the 64 line pair per mm or 72lpmm. Photonis measures resolution by machine. SNR is calculated and is in these units around 25-28.

So my old unit was 64lpmm x 26.1snr = 1670ish.

The refurb pvs30 has an ITT pinnacle tube and I'd bet the pvs27s out there do as well generally. Cant say for sure.

Most refurb pvs30 I've seen are in the 1600fom-1900fom range. The higher the better of course. Cant say what the FOM is on the 27. The 30 has it engraved on the power housing right on top. I dont believe the 27s are marked.

I don't think you can really go wrong with either as far as a NV clipon goes for under 5000$. Things to look out for would be standard NV things like blems, burns, specs etc. Tube life will be based on use and every second it's on is essentially tube life. That being said, tube life is typically measured in thousands of hours. I dont believe the tubes in the refurb units are new... but I dont believe they're anywhere near the end of their lifecycle either.

Hope this helps.

 

[veeramani]

I wont be able to answer all your questions specifically but can still share some info since I own a white phosphor pvs-30.

Its heavy, it's not incredibly small but its solid as all hell. Its smaller and lighter than the pvs27 sure but still big and heavy. The focus on my 30 sucks and I typically set it to about 200yds and leave it unless I have tons of time to adjust it. I hunt coyotes at night with it. Nightvision focus is so touchy that I set it and forget it due to moving targets and the pvs30 focus stiffness. Theres just more important things I worry about when a coyote is coming in.

FOM is resolution of the tube times the SNR of the tube. L3 and Harris bracket their resolutions based on human worker observations typically in the 64 line pair per mm or 72lpmm. Photonis measures resolution by machine. SNR is calculated and is in these units around 25-28.

So my old unit was 64lpmm x 26.1snr = 1670ish.

The refurb pvs30 has an ITT pinnacle tube and I'd bet the pvs27s out there do as well generally. Cant say for sure.

Most refurb pvs30 I've seen are in the 1600fom-1900fom range. The higher the better of course. Cant say what the FOM is on the 27. The 30 has it engraved on the power housing right on top. I dont believe the 27s are marked.

I don't think you can really go wrong with either as far as a NV clipon goes for under 5000$. Things to look out for would be standard NV things like blems, burns, specs etc. Tube life will be based on use and every second it's on is essentially tube life. That being said, tube life is typically measured in thousands of hours. I dont believe the tubes in the refurb units are new... but I dont believe they're anywhere near the end of their lifecycle either.

Hope this helps.View attachment 7289964

What type of scope do you have mounted on the back of this. What distance are the targets ? Do you need a peq 15 to provide more illumination or is starlight enough ?

 

[Rinky]

What type of scope do you have mounted on the back of this. What distance are the targets ? Do you need a peq 15 to provide more illumination or is starlight enough ?

I have a nightforce 2.5-10x32 nxs as my day scope. There are no targets in that picture but that treeline before day break was at 400yds. I use a peq2a but a peq15 full power would be a better choice. No moon and no stars and you're still gonna be struggling to see much of anything. My optic choice isnt super ideal either though.

 

[cake5150]

The 30s I owned a couple years ago were a bit disappointing as far as passive performance goes (refurbs). It was a great scope and was the best I had used to that point, but wound up going to KN203 SIMRADs for long range passive shooting. Then I got a 27, all of the good features of the 30 w/ the same smoking hot passive performance of the KN203 and non of the cons that come w/ SIMRADs (also easy focus). Win/win/win. You really can't go wrong with either, though. First world problems and all that

 

[ifly4vamerica]

I have both, I started with the PVS 27 It is a great unit, works fine with starlight, works great with a quarter moon or more. Definitely a plus to have the focus know but like most I get it close say around 300m and leave it usually. It is big and bulky and heavy but that isn't a deal breaker. What caused me problems with the 27 is mounting it to certain rifles. On my J-allens I had to use a Spuhr adapter and because that is canted the 27 would't clear the barrel. On the J-Allen NV mount, which i had one of the 27 sat really high. Still worked fine though, I was use NF Atacr's and Spuhr 1.5 inch mounts.

The PVS 30, in my opinion is just as good as the 27 except for the focus. As a bonus it works with the spuhr adapters. I would venture to say BOTH will perform equally well for you.

I also run a Raptar-s and a Atilla-200 illuminator with them, those really light things up but in reality I don't think you "need" to run them.

 

[flyfisherman246]

Sounds like the 27's will do me fine. What are things to look out for when buying used? What is the preferred kind of used? Thanks for all the help.

 

[tree man]

Sounds like the 27's will do me fine. What are things to look out for when buying used? What is the preferred kind of used? Thanks for all the help.

@cake5150 can prolly get you set up with a 27
I bought mine from him and love it! He’s a straight up dude that’s not gonna lie to you just to sell ya something! He’s already been in the thread, just thought I’d give you a heads up as he seems to have the best deals on them thus far (when he post them)

 

[flyfisherman246]

Sounds good, Ill reach out to him when the time comes. Is there anything to watch out for when buying a used 27? Where do they come from usually? Are they from Marine units?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

my 27 from cake man is lit AF.

 

[LibertyArms]

They really are on par with each other in my opinion. I'd say an edge to the 27 from the bones I have. The 27 is a hair brighter and crisper image I believe, maybe due to the obj. Size. Weight is not crazy different on mine. 3.2 oz. Haven't had issues fitting the 27 on rails or EFRs. They both work well with no issues. I do want to try a WP tube though for shits and giggles to see how much difference there is in a clip on.

 

[jcoolhand5]

Anyone done a direct comparison between a PVS-27 and a simrad? Currently have a kn203 and wondering if there is much to gain upgrading to a 27. I also run an IRD Mk3 and Halo LR so really just looking at the 27 as a true clip on for longer-ish range static hunting. I get crazy looks when I mount my simrad. Lol

 

[stefan73]

If you want an illuminator for that system to help get into the shadows a Luna ELIR that is de-neutered is a wonderful piece of kit at a very good price!

 

[Victory]

27 clarity at longer ranges is better in my opinion. Also felt like at lower illum levels, it performed better. I’ve spent a massive amount of time behind a 27 though, so maybe my memory is being biased.

 

[cake5150]

I've wned a bunch of both, love both, but the PVS27 is my favorite in all regards. The difference in image quality is really only apparent with 10x+ magnification from my experience. Every single 27 I've owned and used had a great tube in it, the tubes in the 203s were far more variable as far as performance goes. As for cost-effectiveness, the KN203 cannot be beaten.

 

[PlinkIt]

Y'all are going to make me buy a 27...

You guys have to stop

 

[Gasgun]

Anyone done a direct comparison between a PVS-27 and a simrad? Currently have a kn203 and wondering if there is much to gain upgrading to a 27. I also run an IRD Mk3 and Halo LR so really just looking at the 27 as a true clip on for longer-ish range static hunting. I get crazy looks when I mount my simrad. Lol

I am curious about this as well.

 

[13willak]

I read recently that the pvs27's are 1800 min FOM. Don't take my word for it though. I just purchased a pvs27 and like the controls more than a pvs30 I handled. You really can't go wrong either way.