Night Vision Pvs 30 vs Co-x gen 2 mg with BE Meyers Mawl

[19dsniper]

I am looking at getting one of the PVS 30 or the Co-x gen 2. It’s uses will be mostly 300 yards as that’s the farthest range at my house, but it will also be used a few times a year for 500-600 yards and the occasional longer shots. I already own a number of illuminations and my current favorite Ian the BE Meyers MAWL. Using the Mawl, do you think that the CO-x would work for my needs, or do I need to step up to the PVS-30? I use to use the PVS 22 and that’s the most current clip on that I have used in the past. I already have PVS-14 gen 3 Omni 8 tube and don’t want to Ben disappointed with a low quality clip on.

Opinions?
Also, do you see the PVS 30 as being an investment that I could get my money back out of in a few years if I don’t want it anymore or find something better? Trying to balance budget and realistic needs.

 

[wigwamitus]

Given the cost differential of a new PVS-30 versus the cost of the refurbs ... $11K to $13k for new ... depending on how new ... versus $4,700 (plus or minus) for the refurbs ... the PVS-30 refurbs are almost a no-brainer. The quality, capability ratio of the PVS-30 over the CO-x gen2 is approximately infinity
(I majored in math so I can say it )

The only competition are the used PVS-9/PVS-9a ... those run somewhere from $1,100 to $2,200 ... and are comparable to the PVS-30s in terms of image ... so again roughly infinitely better than the CO-x.
CO-x cons ... made by Armasight, which no longer exists and we hear FLIR fired 100% of the support staff. Who is fixing CO-x when they break?
The PVS-9s and PVS-30s are military grade gear ... they don't break. As KSE once said ... whether I try to smash the PVS-30 with a trijicon (thermal) or I try to smash a trijicon thermal with the PVS-30 ... the PVS-30 is going to win ...
CO-X gen2 is a gen2 ... and the PVS-30s and PVS-9s are gen3s ...
PVS-30s and 9s have MUCH larger objectives and hence pull in much more "information" .. adding to that image clarity.
CO-x resale will sustain itself far less than PVS-30s and PVS-9s.
Back in 2015-2016 ... before current quantities of these PVS-30s and 9s were readily available and when Armasight was a thriving business, the CO-xs had a niche ... This is 2018 ... those days are gone.

 

[19dsniper]

Thank you. Anyone else?

I would love the 30 and have a line on a 1953 Pom but not sure if it’s worth the extra money for my NEEDS. It definitely passes every part of my WANTS!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Wig pretty much nailed it.

Armasight stuff is shit as far as I'm concerned and a PVS-30 is top tier. Reliability, quality, and image are not even close between the two units.

When you realize that the Armasight is trash (and you will), you'll lose your ass selling it only to buy a good clip on like the PVS-30 which may not even be available as refurbs when that time comes. So you're going to be looking at second hand stuff or paying twice the refurb costs.

If for whatever reason you need to sell the 30 down the road I doubt you'll take much of a hit, you certainly won't once they dry up from dealers.

Buy once, cry once. I would not waste my money on the Armasight.

 

[cake5150]

PVS-30s and SIMRADs are tools, Armasight devices I've used in the past felt like toys. That quote about the PVS-30 and thermal is absolute gold, and when you hold a 30 you will understand. You could increase the price of a 30 by $2k and I'd still buy that over an Armasight anything.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Given the cost differential of a new PVS-30 versus the cost of the refurbs ... $11K to $13k for new ... depending on how new ... versus $4,700 (plus or minus) for the refurbs ... the PVS-30 refurbs are almost a no-brainer. The quality, capability ratio of the PVS-30 over the CO-x gen2 is approximately infinity
(I majored in math so I can say it )

The only competition are the used PVS-9/PVS-9a ... those run somewhere from $1,100 to $2,200 ... and are comparable to the PVS-30s in terms of image ... so again roughly infinitely better than the CO-x.
CO-x cons ... made by Armasight, which no longer exists and we hear FLIR fired 100% of the support staff. Who is fixing CO-x when they break?
The PVS-9s and PVS-30s are military grade gear ... they don't break. As KSE once said ... whether I try to smash the PVS-30 with a trijicon (thermal) or I try to smash a trijicon thermal with the PVS-30 ... the PVS-30 is going to win ...
CO-X gen2 is a gen2 ... and the PVS-30s and PVS-9s are gen3s ...
PVS-30s and 9s have MUCH larger objectives and hence pull in much more "information" .. adding to that image clarity.
CO-x resale will sustain itself far less than PVS-30s and PVS-9s.
Back in 2015-2016 ... before current quantities of these PVS-30s and 9s were readily available and when Armasight was a thriving business, the CO-xs had a niche ... This is 2018 ... those days are gone.

this is sound advice son

 

[Strykervet]

I just tried out the PVS 30 I got, it ended up being a 1651 FOM but it turns out it wasn't that important. It's as clear as the hand select ITT Omni7 PVS 14's I have, which are stellar. This sorta makes sense being that they both use basically the exact same tube, an ITT Excelis, and which is why I say FOM isn't as important as I though it was. The 14's are GREAT yet are on par with the PVS 30 when it comes to images. With ambient light like a full moon and not looking in shadows, it requires no illum. and is as clear as day. Bright. And I keep the gain down to get a better image. In shadows or in the dark, a PEQ with the illum. on flood (or focused for longer ranges I guess) totally lights up the AO well beyond the capabilities of the PVS 30 when on high. Bright, high definition. Usable at 17x with some fuzz but it also depends on the optic. In general, lower mags are clearer but higher mags with illum. or full moon at longer range aren't much of a problem. Haven't tried cranking it to 25x on the other rifle.

What's nice about the PVS 30 is that it doesn't have to be zeroed to a specific rifle. I can swap it between different rifles with no change in zero. The PVS 30 has two controls: on/off/gain and a focus ring. That's it. Amazing piece of gear. Well made, it's heavy but it's also .50 BMG rated and I'm told it'll stand up to use on the M2HB. I'm still missing the hard case, which is supposed to come later, they were out, but did come with a soft case, KAC cleaning kit, manual, batteries and two allen keys. I acquired a KAC ARD on Ebay for $65 new in wrap, threads on to obj. Rare piece. Will probably put a Butler Creek cap on the rear lens. Sorta like I do with m PVS 14 obj.

PVS 27 has a catadiotropic lens, which is nice, and it supposedly has a longer range with respect to identification. But different people say different things. Not sure if it has to be zeroed to the rifle. It looks heavier too. Not to mention they run more used than these PVS 30's do right now.

It was such a good deal I took a out a bank loan to get one. That may sound stupid, but it really knocked out 3 birds with one stone for me: I got a clip on that would have cost me $11,000+ otherwise, I got to find out if the bank would give me a loan for $4000, and it will raise my credit and look good for when I go to buy a house next year, particularly once I pay it off ASAP. It may not behoove most to take out a bank loan just for the clip on, but that's up to you.

I'm totally satisfied with it and I expected a 1971 FOM but got a 1651, yet I couldn't tell the difference between my 14's like I said, and in some cases it was even nicer maybe? Worked on an SR25 w/3.2-17x USO in Badger unimount cut for NV use, a .50 BMG DTA w/5-25x USO in Badger SASR rings and on a 16" 5.56 "recce" rifle w/Leupold MR/T 2.5-8x in Larue SPR-S (despite being 1.44" w/10MOA, it had a perfect image). Haven't tried with ACOGs or a Grendel SBR with a USO 1-8x in Badger unimount.

I must say that in most cases so far, where KAC micro flip sights were installed, the front sights had to be relocated to just in front of the optic's obj. due to the fact the PVS 30 rides too low in the front to accommodate a flip sight. This must be the reason for the URX2 and some of the URX3's with built in front flip sights with rail on the back. Recommend using a URX2-3 handguard if possible, next would be offset flip sights with relocating the front sight last.

And yes, PVS 30 is DEFINITELY a tool, it's heavy. Heavier than it looks and probably bigger than it looks too. But the advantage it gives is worth it. Amazing piece of gear. Here is a picture on an SR 25 and you can see how it dwarfs that 20" rifle and the large 3.2-17x USO scope. Also note the location of the front flip sight between the optic and clip on.

Here it is on the .50 DTA, again note how it dwarfs the enormous USO 5-25x optic. Not much room and it even hangs off the end some. Of course shorter scopes will have less of a problem, but these larger scopes only go so much shorter. Very well made piece of equipment that increases the use of any system and upgrades it to a 24hr. system.

Oh yeah, MAWL-C with it's amazing illuminators shouldn't be a problem.... Call TNVC and see what they say. I'd even consider trading a full power PEQ for a MAWL-C possibly.

 

[19dsniper]

Do standard scope rings work with the PVS 30’s height? Most of my rings are 1.4-1.5” do you think I would need a higher mount?

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Do yourself a favor and steer clear from the armasight clip ons man. You’d be 10x more satisfied with a pvs-30. As soon as the stock of these refurbished 30s run out the price will begin to climb on them.

Jay

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Do standard scope rings work with the PVS 30’s height? Most of my rings are 1.4-1.5” do you think I would need a higher mount?

Yes. 1.5" on a flat top lines up perfectly but I've ran all the way down to 1.35" and it worked.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I just tried out the PVS 30 I got, it ended up being a 1651 FOM but it turns out it wasn't that important. It's as clear as the hand select ITT Omni7 PVS 14's I have, which are stellar. This sorta makes sense being that they both use basically the exact same tube, an ITT Excelis, and which is why I say FOM isn't as important as I though it was. The 14's are GREAT yet are on par with the PVS 30 when it comes to images. With ambient light like a full moon and not looking in shadows, it requires no illum. and is as clear as day. Bright. And I keep the gain down to get a better image. In shadows or in the dark, a PEQ with the illum. on flood (or focused for longer ranges I guess) totally lights up the AO well beyond the capabilities of the PVS 30 when on high. Bright, high definition. Usable at 17x with some fuzz but it also depends on the optic. In general, lower mags are clearer but higher mags with illum. or full moon at longer range aren't much of a problem. Haven't tried cranking it to 25x on the other rifle.

What's nice about the PVS 30 is that it doesn't have to be zeroed to a specific rifle. I can swap it between different rifles with no change in zero. The PVS 30 has two controls: on/off/gain and a focus ring. That's it. Amazing piece of gear. Well made, it's heavy but it's also .50 BMG rated and I'm told it'll stand up to use on the M2HB. I'm still missing the hard case, which is supposed to come later, they were out, but did come with a soft case, KAC cleaning kit, manual, batteries and two allen keys. I acquired a KAC ARD on Ebay for $65 new in wrap, threads on to obj. Rare piece. Will probably put a Butler Creek cap on the rear lens. Sorta like I do with m PVS 14 obj.

PVS 27 has a catadiotropic lens, which is nice, and it supposedly has a longer range with respect to identification. But different people say different things. Not sure if it has to be zeroed to the rifle. It looks heavier too. Not to mention they run more used than these PVS 30's do right now.

It was such a good deal I took a out a bank loan to get one. That may sound stupid, but it really knocked out 3 birds with one stone for me: I got a clip on that would have cost me $11,000+ otherwise, I got to find out if the bank would give me a loan for $4000, and it will raise my credit and look good for when I go to buy a house next year, particularly once I pay it off ASAP. It may not behoove most to take out a bank loan just for the clip on, but that's up to you.

I'm totally satisfied with it and I expected a 1971 FOM but got a 1651, yet I couldn't tell the difference between my 14's like I said, and in some cases it was even nicer maybe? Worked on an SR25 w/3.2-17x USO in Badger unimount cut for NV use, a .50 BMG DTA w/5-25x USO in Badger SASR rings and on a 16" 5.56 "recce" rifle w/Leupold MR/T 2.5-8x in Larue SPR-S (despite being 1.44" w/10MOA, it had a perfect image). Haven't tried with ACOGs or a Grendel SBR with a USO 1-8x in Badger unimount.

I must say that in most cases so far, where KAC micro flip sights were installed, the front sights had to be relocated to just in front of the optic's obj. due to the fact the PVS 30 rides too low in the front to accommodate a flip sight. This must be the reason for the URX2 and some of the URX3's with built in front flip sights with rail on the back. Recommend using a URX2-3 handguard if possible, next would be offset flip sights with relocating the front sight last.

And yes, PVS 30 is DEFINITELY a tool, it's heavy. Heavier than it looks and probably bigger than it looks too. But the advantage it gives is worth it. Amazing piece of gear. Here is a picture on an SR 25 and you can see how it dwarfs that 20" rifle and the large 3.2-17x USO scope. Also note the location of the front flip sight between the optic and clip on.

View attachment 6928815

Here it is on the .50 DTA, again note how it dwarfs the enormous USO 5-25x optic. Not much room and it even hangs off the end some. Of course shorter scopes will have less of a problem, but these larger scopes only go so much shorter. Very well made piece of equipment that increases the use of any system and upgrades it to a 24hr. system.
View attachment 6928821

Oh yeah, MAWL-C with it's amazing illuminators shouldn't be a problem.... Call TNVC and see what they say. I'd even consider trading a full power PEQ for a MAWL-C possibly.

what can do you have on that dta? that fucking thing is down right abusive with a brake on it. zero pleasure to shoot...lol

 

[dang472]

You’ll want 1.5in rings for the 30. I was going to send you a PM, but I’ll just echo what these guys have said. My CO-X is decent for a lower priced predator setup for 80-250 yards with a good illuminator and good day scope. I actually mounted it in front of a S&B 5-25 and got a realistic 9x out it with decent clarity at my 200yd target backer. With the modded Luna I have no doubt you’d make predator kills out to 300 on a 1/2 to full moon night. That being said, the 30 really pulls away when conditions are worse and overall ruggedness. Also, the extra mag and the finer detail you can achieve with the 30 really helps with ID.

250 to 300 yard hunting shots at night is a pretty good poke on a moving yote off of a tripod. If you’re night target shooting like Wig does at 500-800 yards, the 30 is the best option. If want a lighter truck gun with a 4x ACOG or 1-6 variable for 40-150 yard quick shots, the CO-X is not a bad option.

 

[19dsniper]

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the PVS 30 with a FOM of 1952. It should ship today and be here’s early next week! Thanks for the opinions everyone. I will update with pictures when I get it to the range next week.

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

Where did you buy from?

I’m looking to purchase, how many places did you talk to? Mind sharing your buying experience so far.

 

[19dsniper]

I did contact 3 places. 1 was an individual from the hide, and I mean no offense when I say this, but with a purchase of this expense, I opted to buy from a brick and mortar dealer. It’s nothing against the person I reached out to here and he did have the best price, but I don’t know him or know OF him. The only other thing with buying from him was that he had no idea what the FOM would be. I’m sure any will be fine, but when I contacted other dealers they actually could tell me what they had.

Anyways, I ended up buying from europtic and so far it has been very smooth. I first contacted them just to see what military pricing would be. In the process of using the chat box, Kyle at europtics, actually had me wait while he went to go look at the FOM numbers. When he came back and said he had a 1952 I just couldn’t pass it up. I went ahead and paid over the phone and of corse my CC company immediately thought it was a fraudulent charge because of the amount. He told me that was common and to get ahold of my CC company and let them know it was correct. In the mean time he was going to hold that specific unit for me till the matter was straightened out. I contacted the CC company and authorized the payment. By the time we got back into town and I was able to notify europtic that they could go ahead and run the card again, they were already closed. I sent them a message that it was good to go. This morning Kyle emailed me and also called so he could run my card again. Unfortunately I was on the phone with the V.A. Trying to figure out a referral that has been in the works for the last 355 days! I called Kyle back as soon as I got off the phone with them. They did receive my email, but I had to provide additional information from my card so they could run it again. I was also informed that the 1952 FOM unit they set aside for me was still the same one that I was purchasing. After running my card and having the charge go thru, I was told that they would do there best to get it out today. I did not pay for any additional shipping. I just accepted the free shipping that they offered and was told it should take approximately 3-4 days before it arrived. A bout 30 minutes later I received a UPS shipping notification and a tracking number. That’s where we are now and so far I’m a pleased customer.

 

[19dsniper]

Now I need to find a company that makes or sells a short top rail section that will mount on the Enhanced Ruger Precision Rifle so I don’t have to replace the entire hand guards. I have a number of other rifles to use this on, but would really like to run it on my ERPR as well.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Now I need to find a company that makes or sells a short top rail section that will mount on the Enhanced Ruger Precision Rifle so I don’t have to replace the entire hand guards. I have a number of other rifles to use this on, but would really like to run it on my ERPR as well.

Do yourself a favor and get the Seekins SP3R Mlok hand guard for it. It's a much better forend than the factory one in every aspect. Flat bottomed, more rigid, and has a built in top rail. Probably won't run you much more than what you can dump the stocker for and what you'd spend on a rail. You'll have to buy some tools but they're aren't terribly expensive and are a good thing to have around anyway.

 

[19dsniper]

Haven’t you guys spent enough of my money!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Look at it as free investment consultation.

 

[19dsniper]

Hahaha. Yea, I do want that rail, but maybe I’ll ask Santa to get it for me at Christmas. That’s if she is talking to me by then. She doesn’t know I bought the PVS 30. Hell, she doesn’t even know I was looking for one.

 

[shoobe01]

If anyone else wonders, I went almost this route. Got a CO-MR because that was all that remotely fit into my budget. Then after I became aware of the refurb 30s, sold it and got one.

Shot both a decent bit now, and the PVS30 is miles ahead. No comparison. If they were $11,000 I still wouldn't own one but for the refurb price, the only way to go.

 

[19dsniper]

Yeah, I keep reminding myself that it’s basically what I paid for my PVS 14,s a number of years ago. I have always swore I would never sell them. I’m sure this will be one of those items as well. The biggest choker is that just last week I ordered a Nightforce ATACR F1 and bought us a new bed. So this wasn’t really in my budget plans. This CC bill is going to be rediculous. I’m sure this time next year though, I won’t even think about what I paid for it because I will be so pleased with it. That’s why I was trying to find a less expensive route.

 

[19dsniper]

Thank you guys for all the information and letting me know I made the right decision.

 

[wigwamitus]

... She doesn’t know I bought the PVS 30. Hell, she doesn’t even know I was looking for one ...

Well. as long as she knows what one is you should be fine. I'm sure she will agree with the logic !!!

 

[19dsniper]

Just checked. It’s been picked up and scheduled for delivery on Wednesday.

 

[cake5150]

Just checked. It’s been picked up and scheduled for delivery on Wednesday.

Well then Wednesday your night shooting capabilities are going to change forever. FYI there is no going back to NOT having a clip-on!

 

[19dsniper]

Lol I believe it. I’ve been wanting one for years. No I have to figure out how to get it mounted on my rpr.

 

[Strykervet]

what can do you have on that dta? that fucking thing is down right abusive with a brake on it. zero pleasure to shoot...lol

It has a custom brake not unlike the one that comes on a TRG42 or Harris, I forget, but it's not like the factory one. Most shooting will be done with the can which is an Elite Iron. The can and brake are both custom fitted to be TDC without use of shims. Haven't fired it yet, but when I talked to KAC they said it's good for use on a .50 rifle and even an M2HB. It's pretty heavy duty, it weighs a ton.

I too had a sale setup with EuroOptic and went with a dealer on here... I was expecting a higher FOM too but that one sold I guess and I could either wait and see what they got or just take the 1651 FOM. Turns out so far it's been fine and those with higher FOM's and lower ones say they can't tell the difference. I never have to turn the gain up. If you do the math, the higher FOM's are only slightly better regarding either resolution or s/N. And like I said, the PVS 14 that I have that's pretty much maxed out and should have quite a high FOM is very much on par with the PVS 30, which surprised me. Also, once I adjusted the focus ring on the PVS 30, the image got even better. I imagine a higher FOM will give a clearer picture than a lower one without illumination, but situations like that are limited, for a really good image with NV you almost always need the IR illum. and particularly at longer range. That goes with 14's or 30's, which makes sense, they use the same tube. And you can always switch out the tube in the future; a white phosphor would be nice.

Higher FOM vs. lower really is equalized when use of an IR illuminator is used, which is pretty much paramount in dark conditions with no moon or stars or long range anyway. With an illuminator, I only get some fuzz at higher magnifications, which is normal and to be expected. Still useable, and even more so with illumination. I must say I expected lower performance but was surprised to find I couldn't tell a difference really.

Should I have gone with EuroOptic? Maybe in hindsight. But I had no idea about the miscommunication and it wasn't the fault of the dealer here on the 'Hide, it was his distributor; I know, I talked to them. If he has a line on a particular one and can confirm for a fact that'll be the one to ship, then he's good to go. I got all the stuff that comes with them, but they were out of the hard case and I'm still waiting on one of those to ship.

For height, 1.54" is perfect, 1.49" isn't obvious and 1.44" even with 10MOA with a small obj. like a Leupold MR/T still gives a great image. Badger mounts are serving me very well, glad I went with those way back when. Always planned on this, just figured it wouldn't happen for a while.

 

[roamin]

Here's a pic though the scope of the CO-LR Flag with the WP gen3 L3 unfilmed tube I did a handpick on. Pretty sweet huh? The lights are coming off a building in the background at 1112 yards. The image quality on that thing was terrible there was no way I could have taken it on to the public lands I shoot on where other people have a right to be and sent live fire downrange into a blur. IIRC I payed $5,500 and thank god I was able to return it to Armasight minus a restocking fee. Can't blame the tube the specs were smokin Res 72, PC 2722, SN 33.1, Halo 0.7, EBI 1.0.

Does anyone have though the scope pics at long range on the refurb pvs30's they can share? I'm still looking for replacement.

Edit;
Some additional images added for transparency.
One image with the PVS14 looking though a PLR25C ranging the building at 1112yrds.
And another image of the PVS14 behind the scope looking at the building at higher magnification. This image is significantly cleaner than the image of the CO-LR looking at the same scene. Of course both devices are mounted on a rail and are not on a rifle.

 

[Shifty6BR]

Pvs 30 Cloudy skies, *no moon. Gain turned to mid.
Approx 75yds

Co mr 3p Clear skies, * full moon. No gain control
Approx 75 yds

Pvs 30 FTW hands down, the image is much sharper. The co mr makes for a good buddy loaner tho, but is not even close in the same league as the 30 especially once you start getting out there in distance.

 

[roamin]

Pvs 30 Cloudy skies, *no moon. Gain turned to mid.
Approx 75yds

Co mr 3p Clear skies, * full moon. No gain control
Approx 75 yds

Pvs 30 FTW hands down, the image is much sharper. The co mr makes for a good buddy loaner tho, but is not even close in the same league as the 30 especially once you start getting out there in distance.

Can't really tell much at 75 yards from what I remember that's about how the CO-LR looked at close range the pics I posted are 1112 yards. When I download your pics and zoom in on the image it becomes quite blurry but I said it's tough to tell either way at such short range. Do you have any pics at 1000?

 

[Shifty6BR]

Can't really tell much at 75 yards from what I remember that's about how the CO-LR looked at close range the pics I posted are 1112 yards. When I download your pics and zoom in on the image it becomes quite blurry but I said it's tough to tell either way at such short range. Do you have any pics at 1000?

Agreed..no pics available at 1k, unfortunately have to wait until corn is down which won't be till Oct or so...?. My buddy has a pvt range so I can try to snap some off his road or something but there is corn for as far as the eye can see. I live in a fairly crowded residential area so 1k pics are hard to get less I go out to the country side.

 

[Nate O.]

Does anyone have though the scope pics at long range on the refurb pvs30's they can share? I'm still looking for replacement.

Atacr was on 4 or 5x I think. That small transformer hanging on the pole to the right is at at about 1150 yds if I remember correctly.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

LR pics are not going to give a better indication of true image tube quality of one unit vs another since a lot of that because of the variable of ambient light and lens size which becomes even more apparent the further you go. It's really not a fair comparison and certainly not a true test of tube vs tube. By those standards a Simrad KN203FAB is the best clip on ever made because of how it performs in low ambient light compared to everything else.

50-100 yards with a good illuminator on a eye chart using the same high end day optic for both is the best non laboratory way I've found to test a unit. Anything beyond that and it just depends on the lens size and ambient light/illumination. Get a PVS-30 or just about any inline clip on out in less than ideal conditions and don't use an illuminator and you're going to be very disappointed.

 

[roamin]

Atacr was on 4 or 5x I think. That small transformer hanging on the pole to the right is at at about 1150 yds if I remember correctly.

Thank you. Still hard to get an idea of a device from just one image does anyone have else anyothers.

 

[roamin]

LR pics are not going to give a better indication of true image tube quality of one unit vs another since a lot of that because of the variable of ambient light and lens size which becomes even more apparent the further you go. It's really not a fair comparison and certainly not a true test of tube vs tube. By those standards a Simrad KN203FAB is the best clip on ever made because of how it performs in low ambient light compared to everything else.

50-100 yards with a good illuminator on a eye chart using the same high end day optic for both is the best non laboratory way I've found to test a unit. Anything beyond that and it just depends on the lens size and ambient light/illumination. Get a PVS-30 or just about any inline clip on out in less than ideal conditions and don't use an illuminator and you're going to be very disappointed.

I understand that conditions make a world of difference with any NV device. I think the issue I'm concerned over is gaining an idea of resolution limitations at long range with this particular device.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Thank you. Still hard to get an idea of a device from just one image do anyone else anyothers.

There are way too many variables to judge performance with through the scope pictures. To have any indication the units would both need to be tested in front of the same exact optic, in the same ambient light and/or illumination (really on the same clear night minutes apart), and looking at the same target area.

Even if you can make all of that happen, then you have to get consistent through the scope pictures which can be very hard to do. If that isn't all the same you could make a gen 2+ Armasight look somewhat decent in flawless lighting conditions and you could make a PVS-30 look like absolute dog shit in crappy conditions. All things being equal though, that PVS-30 will beat up the Armasight and steal its lunch money.

If you're on instagram look up team_pitch_black_precision they have quite a few good through the scope videos night hunting with PVS-30's and also some with Simrads. The page actually belongs to a guy that posted in this thread.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I understand that conditions make a world of difference with any NV device. I think the issue I'm concerned over is gaining an idea of resolution limitations at long range with this particular device.

The resolution limitations are going to be the same at close distance as they are far, distance has no bearing on the resolution of the tube. The only factor at play is ambient light whether it's natural or artificial, hence why I said it's a terrible way to compare resolution.

 

[roamin]

The resolution limitations are going to be the same at close distance as they are far, distance has no bearing on the resolution of the tube. The only factor at play is ambient light whether it's natural or artificial, hence why I said it's a terrible way to compare resolution.

Exactly fhe resolution limitations of any clip-on device will be limited by the by fact that you're zooming in on the back of a projected image inside of the device rather than zooming in on the environment like you would be in the daytime. It's kinda like zooming in on your TV the image just gets larger but the resolution does not increase and I'd like to see how this device resolves images at long range because long range would be my primary intended use for a clip-on and my experiences with other devices have lead me to believe that clip-ons aren't capable of clean images at longer ranges and I'd like to see if a clip-on would work for me at all.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Exactly fhe resolution limitations of any clip-on device will be limited by the by fact that you're zooming in on the back of a projected image inside of the device rather than zooming in on the environment like you would be in the daytime. It's kinda like zooming in on your TV the image just gets larger but the resolution does not increase and I'd like to see how this device resolves images at long range because long range would be my primary intended use for a clip-on and my experiences with other devices have lead me to believe that clip-ons aren't capable of clean images at longer ranges and I'd like to see if a clip-on would work for me at all.

You still don’t get it. Illuminate the target well and IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU ARE AT 100 YARDS OR 1000 YARDS.

I don’t see what is so hard to comprehend about that. The tube has the image resolution it has at any distance, it does not matter. The only limiting factor will be how good the illumination is. I’ve used the good gen 3 clip ons to shoot in excess of 1200 yards.

 

[roamin]

You still don’t get it. Illuminate the target well and IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU ARE AT 100 YARDS OR 1000 YARDS.

I don’t see what is so hard to comprehend about that. The tube has the image resolution it has at any distance, it does not matter. The only limiting factor will be how good the illumination is. I’ve used the good gen 3 clip ons to shoot in excess of 1200 yards.

Performance of all NV will vary with conditions of ambient or natural light and regardless we post pictures to help others gain an idea of the performance they can expect prior to buying that is the purpose of forums such as one correct, to help users make decisions. I'm not looking to make a scientific comparisons of different devices so what if there's a variance based on conditions I'd like to see some though scope pictures anyway. Now look I'm being polite with you and you're getting rude for no reason you need cool it.

 

[Nate O.]

Atacr was on 4 or 5x I think. That small transformer hanging on the pole to the right is at at about 1150 yds if I remember correctly.

I was mistaken on the range.....

 

[roamin]

I was mistaken on the range.....

That's not too shabby at 1307. Thanks.

 

[19dsniper]

Well, my PVS 30 arrived today Andy it looks really good! I’ve played around with it in the front yard and messed with ranges from 30 yards out to 300. Looks great. No moon, only starlight. Easily useable up to about 15x. Dialed magnification higher and with external illumination I can easily go higher. This is with my Bushnell elite 3.5-21 G2 hdmr. I’m trying to get just the right angle to view a house that is ranged at 2, 978 yards. I need external illumination. So I grab my MAWL and try it. The problem I’m running into is that the Mawl has the controls on the top. I didn’t account for the length of the PVS 30 in my set up. The front lense literally stops at the very end of my rail. I’m going to have to figure something out or pick up a different external illumination. Im not expecting to illuminate 3000 yards, I’m just playing around to see what’s possible with this set up.

Next up is my RPR with Vortex Razor Gen 2, 4.5-27. I had to modify a rail section that was suppose to be for mlok, and then drill and tap my rail so I could attach my PVS 30. That worked out well and is very sturdy, but the 30 definitely could sit about 0.3” lower. I’m not changing rings out but may look into grinding this short rail section down later to thin it down and bring the center down closer to where it should be height wise. Anyways, it still works besides not being lined up just perfect. Now, the disclaimer isn’t that I haven’t shot it yet to see if it does anything to them zero with it not sitting lower. Range time will let me know that later. I planned on taking a bunch of pictures and I will do that as I have more time. For now I just wanted to update everyone. Pictures will follow on this page and I will also add them to the pvs30 pqge.

Now, back to the dark side!

 

[texas_vet00]

"I didn’t account for the length of the PVS 30 in my set up."

Me neither. Now go buy a shorter scope and ride that 30 like you stole it...

Don't you dare think about saying bad things about the MAWL btw...

 

[19dsniper]

Haha. Well, this is on a SPR setup and the 3.5-21 is pretty short for what it is. I am waiting on my atacr 4-16 F1 that will replace it. I think I have around 20 days or so before NF is suppose to send it out. I would never bad mouth the MAWl. I love this thing! I know I’m trying to use it for a purpose it wasn’t intended to be used for, and in that lies my problem. For a pvs14 the Mawl is tits! However, for me to use it on a rifle length rail, with this scope and the PVS 30, I’ve just run out of rail space because of its mounting and angles. I did add a section of rail so I can mount it at the 9 o’clock temporarily, and it’s ok. Ergonomics are out the window because my muscle memory is now upside down to what it is. But that’s ok while I’m just playing around. I did have to take my suppressor cover off because it was creating bloom back into the 30 the way the Mawl is mounted. I’m still thinking I will want some different illumination so I can keep my Mawl on my 11.5”. It will see more use there. I can’t say enough good things about the Mawl. It’s definitely the easiest unit I’ve used and I like it’s settings a lot better than even a peq 15.

ETA: if what i type doesn’t make sense, please read between the lines unless you need clarification. I’m using an iPad and it must be smarter than me because it types things I’m not trying to say. I have edited some posts 3 times trying to get it right.

 

[wigwamitus]

... but the 30 definitely could sit about 0.3” lower ...

I've run the day scope 0.2 lower than the 30 with no ill effect on POI ... haven't tried 0.3 higher (or lower).

 

[Mike_Honcho]

I have never seen an MWAL - what is the story on these for LR? I read the blurb on them, but is the IR light as powerful as a restricted unit? Can you adjust it, or is the beam controlled by the 3 settings only? How tight / vis is the dot at say 500?

 

[19dsniper]

It’s not made for Long range, which is why I stated before that I’m using it outside its intended purpose. Where it really shines, no pun intended, is as an ir laser illuminator for everything from in your face room clearing all the way out to at least 500 yards. I haven’t tried it past about 500 for the illumination. I’m on 100 acres here in central texas and have way too much mesquite and cedar to see much past that.
The beam is not user changeable in the sense that I think you are referring to. It is user selectable, but not user adjustable. What I mean is that each of the 3 settings has a high and low on the pressure pad. It’s extremely intuitive and the fastest adjustment you could ever make. In fact unless someone was to take the surefire intellabeam technology and place it into an ir illuminator, I don’t think it would be possible to make a faster system. Once you have some time behind it, everything becomes second nature. At first the only thing I didn’t like was the high power having the spring loaded button that you have to push down to slide it into high power. But, after getting out and actually hitting the range, using it in the woods, open fields, in houses, etc. not only does it make perfect sense, but I’m glad it’s set up exactly how it is. The ONLY thing I would like to see changed is allowing you to have a selection such as VIS or IR in standby, without it draining the battery. I made the mistake of sliding the switch over to VIS before putting it in the closet one night. Went to bed, grabbed the rifle for work 2 days later and checked flashlight, red dot, etc. and found that the batteries were dead on the MAWL. Turns out leaving it in “standby” if you will, actually drain some batteries fairly quickly. I first thought that it was bad batteries so I put new ones in Andy threw it in my bag after everything checked out. Later found it dead again. I should probably call them and make sure it’s normal, I just haven’t. In fact, I’m going to do that now.
If you ever have a chance to mess with a MAWL, do it! It’s expensive, but with what I see currently on the market, I wouldn’t want any other ir laser illumination.
Btw, if your talking about the laser at 500, low power if completely visable at 500. On high power I was able to see the reflection on a telephone pole last night at just a few feet shy of 3,000 yards. Now, holding it still was a totally different story, but as my beam hit the pole, it would bloom just a little bit letting me know I hit a reflective object.

 

[SingleShot85]

I have a Gen 3 Co-X (Omni 7 tube) and it is the shit out to 400yrds nice and small very versatile across several platforms. Absolutely nothing bad to say about it........
That being said my 30 is cats ass got the absolute best picture and my range is increased exponentially.

In short I like both and I have back up but if I could only have one...... the 30 wins