Night Vision PVS-31A vs PVS-31D

[A.sosa]

I prefer my 31s. That said here is how I see it.

31s are advantaged in weight, and manual gain.

DTNVS are advantaged in being able to name your tube spec, and onboard IR illum (which I don’t value).

They are a push in durability. You make the call. I’m sticking with my 31a.

 

[RadioActivity]

There are now DTNVS with manual gain available.

 

[tekmann2377]

Gotta say the PVS-31d is system that works great. No complaints. Compared to my friend's green phosphor stuff if blows it out of the water. Also the housing just works. Mine have pretty similar specs and the tubes are very clean in comparison.

PS on a side note what helmet ear pro mount would you guys run for ComTac V's on an Ops Core FAST Carbon?

 

[Magsz18]

Gotta say the PVS-31d is system that works great. No complaints. Compared to my friend's green phosphor stuff if blows it out of the water. Also the housing just works. Mine have pretty similar specs and the tubes are very clean in comparison.

PS on a side note what helmet ear pro mount would you guys run for ComTac V's on an Ops Core FAST Carbon?

I'm running Ops Core Amp arms on my comtac 3's with AXL rac links.

This is on a FAST SF BUMP (essentially a clone of your carbon) and my FAST SF Ballistic

 

[tekmann2377]

Interestingly enough I did a bunch of research and had ended up ordering AMP arms and Axl RAC links independently... Appreciate the input and looking forward to setting it all up

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

So, I'm currently looking to make a personal purchase after running the 31A's for work for quite a while. I'm looking into the following:

- PVS 1531
- PVS 31d
- Nocturn Manticore
- Act in black DTNVS Manual Gain

Anyone had a chance to mess with multiple of the list above and have any thoughts? I'm assuming it will be hard to go wrong with any of them.

 

[Magsz18]

So, I'm currently looking to make a personal purchase after running the 31A's for work for quite a while. I'm looking into the following:

- PVS 1531
- PVS 31d
- Nocturn Manticore
- Act in black DTNVS Manual Gain

Anyone had a chance to mess with multiple of the list above and have any thoughts? I'm assuming it will be hard to go wrong with any of them.

Manticore or 31D.

Why are you switching from the 31A's?

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Manticore or 31D.

Why are you switching from the 31A's?

Mainly for the adjustable diopter. I likely won't be the only person using this set. And my eyes are getting older/worse.

 

[Magsz18]

Mainly for the adjustable diopter. I likely won't be the only person using this set. And my eyes are getting older/worse.

Don't they make snap in diopter adjustments for the PVS31A?

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Don't they make snap in diopter adjustments for the PVS31A?

I'm not aware of it, but definitely doesn't mean they don't. I've only ever used the fixed diopter kits unless that's what you're talking about.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Where is a good place to source a good price on 31d? I can get into some 31a's for just under $12k, but would prefer to have an adjusting diopter.

I have a quote for a 31d just under $10k, but the SNR is a bit lower than I'd like at 29.7 and 32.0.


Feel free to PM if you don't want to discus publicly. Thanks

 

[Magsz18]

Where is a good place to source a good price on 31d? I can get into some 31a's for just under $12k, but would prefer to have an adjusting diopter.

I have a quote for a 31d just under $10k, but the SNR is a bit lower than I'd like at 29.7 and 32.0.


Feel free to PM if you don't want to discus publicly. Thanks

Talk to Ryan at Apollo Gear. He will get you whatever you want. Within reason of course.

 

[tekmann2377]

Steele Industries is another source... Mine were an SNR of 35/33.5, for a touch under $10k. I saw one of the pairs Ryan had at Apollo were a little better spec (SNR 34-35) but the difference was splitting hairs for me

 

[tekmann2377]

I forgot to mention that these were the adjustable diopter models as well

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Steele Industries is another source... Mine were an SNR of 35/33.5, for a touch under $10k. I saw one of the pairs Ryan had at Apollo were a little better spec (SNR 34-35) but the difference was splitting hairs for me

I'm debating right now on the following from Steele as their price is with the adjustable diopter and Wilcox mount for $9999.98 (price is public, so not disclosing any super secret pricing).

LP: 76/76 SNR: 31.8/31.6 EBI: 1.52/1.48 Halo .67/.69

LP: 81/81 SNR: 31.7/34.9 EBI: 1.2/0.46 Halo .76/.77

I'm leaning towards the top one as it's closer matched. But in reality, I probably won't be able to tell them apart.

 

[Magsz18]

I would go for the goggles with the LP of 76. 81 is a waste. I would reach out to Ryan first and see what he’s got. The goggles I got from him destroy those numbers.

 

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

I can recommend Ryan at Apollo very highly. Plus he will give you a further discount if you don’t want or need the G24 mount that comes with them. He regularly lets you hand pick the specs as well. I have heard mixed reviews of Steele other than great prices. Actually I am still waiting to hear back from Steele on a 31d I emailed them about over a month ago. I get a response from Ryan within 10 minutes. Good luck! I love mine the more I use them!

 

[Dogtown]

Don't be afraid to reach out to either Steele or Apollo Gear - both will answer any questions you have and make informed recommendations. Steele has good prices and generally a wide selection to chose from (as does Darq Industries and Custom Night Vision). Apollo Gear specializes in building high spec L3 systems from various housings using 24U, 24UA, and 24UAH tubes almost exclusively, but you will also find some factory rigs from L3 and Elbit. Seriously good guy to deal with - I have several custom units from Ryan now.

 

[Default.mp3]

I have heard mixed reviews of Steele other than great prices. Actually I am still waiting to hear back from Steele on a 31d I emailed them about over a month ago.

As someone who bought from Steele, and has had several other friends buy from Steele, all of us wish that we had bought elsewhere at this point. The pricing was good, and for some of the issues I personally ran into, they did show great enthusiasm to make it right (which they were successful in), but comms have often been spotty, and some of the issues my friends had did not speak to a high level of quality or attention to detail, unfortunately.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I think I'm just going to set minimum requirements for either a 31a or 31d and periodically reach out asking if they have one that meets the spec. If I'm going to spend $10-15k, might as well hold out for a really good unit. I need to go get a new eye exam anyway, so if I'm too far off 20/20, I'll just wear prescription under the NVG if I go with the 31a. Or I'll buy the proper diopter and screw it in.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Res: 64-72 (will take higher only if the SNR minimum is met)
SNR: 35 min
EBI: 1.0 max
Halo: 0.8 max
Spots: none

I can be a little flexible on EBI and some small spots if the rest of the specs are exceptional. Based on what I've seen so far, these specs might be a bit harder to find in the 31d, but the 31a won't be much trouble finding these.

Let me know if I should add a spec, or if one of the above looks unrealistic. I've only ever used what .gov gave/gives me, so basically a selection off specs is new for me.

Also, I'm trying to stay away from PVS 14 glass. I like the proprietary 31a or 31d better. At least in the samples I've been able to look through briefly. Hence why only 31a and 31d are being considered. Though the Eotech BinoNv-W pretty much looks like a 31d (pretty sure same company making the housing) and has manual gain. So that would be acceptable as well.

 

[Dogtown]

Those aren't unicorn specs, so it shouldn't be a problem finding a set. No need to go above 72lp resolution in this case, and keep in mind with L3 tubes anything less than 72lp gets rounded down to 64 (so even 71lp is listed as 64lp). And don't be afraid of a little peppering in Zone 2 & 3 - they disappear when you're out and about vs staring at a white wall.

I think if you were to buy a factory 31a or 31d, you'll be in the ballpark of those specs. You can also reach out to the small custom shops and have this pick tubes that match those specs and put them in a DTNVS or RNVG-A housing probably for quite a bit less than those factory offerings.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Those aren't unicorn specs, so it shouldn't be a problem finding a set. No need to go above 72lp resolution in this case, and keep in mind with L3 tubes anything less than 72lp gets rounded down to 64 (so even 71lp is listed as 64lp). And don't be afraid of a little peppering in Zone 2 & 3 - they disappear when you're out and about vs staring at a white wall.

I think if you were to buy a factory 31a or 31d, you'll be in the ballpark of those specs. You can also reach out to the small custom shops and have this pick tubes that match those specs and put them in a DTNVS or RNVG-A housing probably for quite a bit less than those factory offerings.

Yea, I'd already have a Manticore with those specs, but I'm trying to stick with the 31a or 31d glass. It seems to require less focusing that pvs14 glass.

 

[Magsz18]

I think I'm just going to set minimum requirements for either a 31a or 31d and periodically reach out asking if they have one that meets the spec. If I'm going to spend $10-15k, might as well hold out for a really good unit. I need to go get a new eye exam anyway, so if I'm too far off 20/20, I'll just wear prescription under the NVG if I go with the 31a. Or I'll buy the proper diopter and screw it in.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Res: 64-72 (will take higher only if the SNR minimum is met)
SNR: 35 min
EBI: 1.0 max
Halo: 0.8 max
Spots: none

I can be a little flexible on EBI and some small spots if the rest of the specs are exceptional. Based on what I've seen so far, these specs might be a bit harder to find in the 31d, but the 31a won't be much trouble finding these.

Let me know if I should add a spec, or if one of the above looks unrealistic. I've only ever used what .gov gave/gives me, so basically a selection off specs is new for me.

Also, I'm trying to stay away from PVS 14 glass. I like the proprietary 31a or 31d better. At least in the samples I've been able to look through briefly. Hence why only 31a and 31d are being considered. Though the Eotech BinoNv-W pretty much looks like a 31d (pretty sure same company making the housing) and has manual gain. So that would be acceptable as well.

Here are the specs that I got from Ryan:
FOM: 2454.8/2447.2
RES: 76
SNR: 32.3/32.2
HALO: .77/.76
EBI: .45/.60

My tubes are pristine. There is zero peppering. ZERO. There is no FPN. ZERO.

I have L3 18UM and 24UM tubes and as I mentioned prior, I prefer my Elbits. More than just due to the housing.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Here are the specs that I got from Ryan:
FOM: 2454.8/2447.2
RES: 76
SNR: 32.3/32.2
HALO: .77/.76
EBI: .45/.60

My tubes are pristine. There is zero peppering. ZERO. There is no FPN. ZERO.

I have L3 18UM and 24UM tubes and as I mentioned prior, I prefer my Elbits. More than just due to the housing.

Except for the EBI (which isn't usually a big deal), those specs are close to pretty much what I see on all F5032/31d. Rare to see specs as high as L3 tubes. Just kinda is what it is. Still great optics. It is a bit annoying seeing 2376 minimum FOM using Res higher than 72 when it's pretty much impossible for the human eye at 1x to see a difference. So, they are going to be more equivalent to 2300 FOM (still good obviously).

I haven't heard back from emails I sent to Apollo. However I heard back immediately and several times from Steele.

 

[Magsz18]

Except for the EBI (which isn't usually a big deal), those specs are close to pretty much what I see on all F5032/31d. Rare to see specs as high as L3 tubes. Just kinda is what it is. Still great optics. It is a bit annoying seeing 2376 minimum FOM using Res higher than 72 when it's pretty much impossible for the human eye at 1x to see a difference. So, they are going to be more equivalent to 2300 FOM (still good obviously).

I haven't heard back from emails I sent to Apollo. However I heard back immediately and several times from Steele.

I wasn't really "happy" about the 76 res as its a way to cheat FOM numbers.

However, I see no practical difference between these Elbit tubes and my L3 tubes other than glass quality. People get WAY too wrapped around the axle regarding specs. I get it. It's an expensive purchase. However, i've seen guys wait years to buy NV because they absolutely had to have a certain spec. They wasted years, sitting on their hands doing nothing for...what?

Any modern tube over 30 SNR with low EBI and low Halo is going to be an awesome performing tube provided its clean. Even tube cleanliness is subjective regarding importance.

Give Ryan a chance. He will get back to you asap.

 

[Dogtown]

Aanalysis Paralysis with tubes specs is all too common.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

The main thing I’m debating now is basically the optics difference between the 31a and 31d vs the typical pvs14 glass like Carson and RPO.

Whichever ends ups be the most forgiving as far as focusing will be what I go with.

Anyone notice a substantial difference in how often you’re focusing for different distances? Or do you end up just focusing at infinity for most things and closer for cqb distances?

 

[Dogtown]

I honestly think if you look through both you probably won’t tell too much of a difference.

Just stare at the stars and focus on them - bam, infinity. For stuff up close, look underneath.

 

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

Looks like the prices on the 31d just went up 10-15%. I happened to time that right by dumb luck. To get them at the old prices you will need to find some of the last batch still in stock somewhere.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Just spoke with Ryan at Apollo. Looks like I'll likely be going with a high spec 24ua Manticore for a very good price.

Fairly likely I'll end up picking up a 31d at some point as well.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Still waiting to do a final review of tubes to pick from. But I can say that Ryan was easily the most helpful. Not gonna bash any other companies by name.....but they were all more sales oriented. Not incredibly helpful and more pushing for you to just buy from their inventory on website. I'm sure they are very busy, so it's understandable to a point.

Ryan was the opposite. More than willing to take whatever time was needed to help. Regardless of sale.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Just got done picking tubes.

Res: 72/72
SNR: 35.4/35.9
EBI: 0.6/0.6
Halo: 0.7/0.7

Manticore R housing and Carson optics.


And also have a line on a 4mo old set of 31d that I'll probably grab too. Because why have just one set.......

 

[Dogtown]

Whew…finally. Congrats.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Whew…finally. Congrats.

It's definitely a much different world when you go from using with .gov gives you and actually purchasing something you have control over.

Tons of research last few weeks. Though it definitely seems like people look for really high specs when pretty much anything over 30snr and 64res with decent ebi and halo.......will pretty much look amazing to almost anyone.