Night Vision pvs14 behind day optic

[DrewinTejas]

I am getting a new AR built and have been running my PVS 14 behind an eotech. I am wanting to get a 2.5-10 Vortex PST and mount the PVS14 behind it with TNVC's adapter. Anyone have any experience with this setup or something similar? Any info will help as I have not purchased a day optic yet. I do have a new IR torch coming which I think is a must through a day optic/pvs14 combo.

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

The PVS-14 is going to change your shooting position dramatically. If you can deal with it, it can work, though.

Check the height over bore of your optic/ ring combination. The TM-14 adapter can work but, it is built to be optimized for the EoTech/ Aimpoint sights. Your magnified optic may sit a little lower, depending on the rings you put on it.

You are correct about needing to add the extra illumination. You are adding several more layers of glass (none of which are optimized to pass IR light) in front of your PVS-14. It is going to struggle a little more to have enough light to work with. Adding the additional ilium will help.

Hope that helps you get set up.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Kyle,

This is the adapter I was talking about. That way it aligns correctly with the day optic
http://tnvc.com/shop/universal-adapter-for-pvs-14/

 

[TNVC - Kyle]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Yep, that'll do it. I thought you were referring to the TM-14.

 

[mumabear]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

a ir laser will work best and let you use a high power scope ,make some long shots if needed only trouble is rangefinding at night

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Another quick question which might save me some money or allow me to step up in glass quality. Do I need an illuminated reticle that is nv capable or do I need illumination period in the scope? If the NV will pick up the reticle without illumination, then I can look for a better scope for the same price range as the PST. Thanks

 

[SkyPup]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Here is one of my ITT PVS-14s behind a Redfield 3-9X-50mm scope:

The view through the scope is actually much better than what my crummy NV photos depict of my game cam oak tree @ 175 yards.

The rifle shoots Barnes 70 grain TSX 1/2 MOA all day and all night.

 

[yellowcarbon]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Any illuminated reticle you can see with your eye will be too bright for NV. You do not need an illuminated reticle to be able to use the optic as long as there is decent lighting. You may loose the reticle it very dark conditions, but additional IR illumination will fix that problem. So definitely go for the better glass rather than look for illumination.

With that said, also be aware that you will loose some performance from your NV when mounted behing an optic. Depending on the optic, it can be pretty bad. Some of the lens coating can really mess with it's ability to take in IR light.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

What about the leupold 3-9x40 vx-r patrol? I am wanting a good all around optic for my SPR. The glass in the PST are not great so this would be in the price range but I think a better optic than the pst and possibly a better nv day scope.

Thanks

 

[SkyPup]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrewinTejas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the leupold 3-9x40 vx-r patrol? I am wanting a good all around optic for my SPR. The glass in the PST are not great so this would be in the price range but I think a better optic than the pst and possibly a better nv day scope.

Thanks </div></div>

That would be an excellent scope, if you can get the 50mm model, but if not the 40mm is great too.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I picked up a VX-R patrol off of here for a deal today so I will try it out. If Im not happy with it I guess it will be helmet mounted time.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I run mine behind all sorts of day optics. It actually works great. In my opinions fixed optic works better then a variable due to less glass passing light.

 

[Miles2go]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I was all set up to run the PVS14 behind an Aimpoint microdot. Then I did and found the Aimpoint killed light transmission. So I put it behind the Eotech and it is much better. However, if a precision shot is needed, I feel the circle of the Eotech is too bright and limits the ability to see a small critter.

So now, what works the best is the IR laser. No doubt is a perfect combination. I have the Aimpoint on a quick release and can take it off at night and put the PVS14 on. The Laser stays on the front of the rail. Mine is a suppressed 44 so my effective range is limited to 100 yards. If more distance were possible, I'd struggle with magnification issues.

 

[nohair]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I run mine behind a NF2.5-10x32 and it works pretty well.
I have also ran it on my NF5.5-22x50 on my Bolt gun 308 with good results.
Using that TNVC mount

 

[ranger1183]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I used a mono-loc to connect a PVS-14 to a Leupold 3-9x40. Worked ok at lower magnification. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[aziator]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I have the 3x magnifier but I think I would like to try the universal adapter. Guess I need to spend more $$$ with TNVC...

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Ok, not to step on anyone's toes here but I've been running a 14 behind a precision scope for years with 100% perfection. Night has become day and I can mil with my scope at night and shoot to any distance I do during the day. No eye relief issues, no torch needed at all. Here is the secret for all of you. It's called an LMT. Yes you have to have a monolithic upper to do it or an old school MARS rail on whatever else.

First, with a unitized rail section or true monolithic upper like the LMT using either a Larue 104 or a GG&G 1383 you zero your scope in the normal day position.

Second, you get a standard PVS 14 J-arm that attaches to the 1913 rail. This is the exact height needed to match the two above mounts.

Third, remove your daytime scope with it's quick release mount system that repeats zero.

Fourth, mount your PVS at the same exact rearward position your daytime optic was mounted as not to change your eye relief.

Fifth, mount your daytime optic in the first available position in front of the PVS-14.

Sixth, adjust only the eye piece focus of your daytime scope for clarity and focus.

Your done, ready to rock and roll and all you have done is change the delta of your triangle by the length of your PVS-14.No need to even re-zero. It works, I have done this hundreds of time, night is now day. You need not even turn your illumination on in your scope. Hope this helps and trust me it flat works. Problem solved, problem staying solved.

 

[ncorry]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used a mono-loc to connect a PVS-14 to a Leupold 3-9x40. Worked ok at lower magnification. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. </div></div>

I have the 3-9X50 VXR. It's a 30 mm tube. After mounting the scope to my upper, I put an extra Warne QD ring on the scope at 9 o'clock. I got a 8 inch piece of picatinny rail and attached it to the extra ring with a YHM 1/2 inch riser. Then, I use the GG&G Multiflex mount to the other end of the picatinny rail. To go from day to night, I add the rail to the extra ring mount, and then snap the PVS ring into the Multiflex mount. I meassured everything out, and the Multiflex puts the centerline of the PVS-14 at 1.624", and the Warne ring/ YHM riser puts the center of the 30mm scope at 1.615", so the centers of the two optics are off by .008" from each other. Works pretty well up to about 6x with no IR.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Here's mine coupled up to 10x super sniper with ir. Conditions were very dark no moon or stars. Garage is 190yds I think. Image is much better in person then my cell phone can capture but you get the idea.

 

[CTM1]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Second, you get a standard PVS 14 J-arm that attaches to the 1913 rail. This is the exact height needed to match the two above mounts.
</div></div>

Not understanding the use of the J-arm here?

Picture please.

I just hate the idea of moving my day scope or swapping the day scope for dedicated night scope. I just think it is easier to deal with the change in cheek weld.

I would still like to hear of someone using a scout type scope (long eye relief) and then add the PVS-14 behind that. It would seem that it would work just fine without all of the hassles of moving and switching etc.

 

[ncorry]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

"Not understanding the use of the J-arm here?"
I'm pretty sure he meant the standard USGI weapons mount that attaches to the 1913 picatinny.

In my post above about attaching mine to the back of my Leupy VXR 3-9X50, I forgot to say that during the day, I keep my 6 position collapsible stock at the second shortest setting. When I put the PVS-14 on behind the VXR, I extend it all the way out, and eye relief between the two is pretty much the same.

I will take some pics of my set up and try to figure out how to post them up for (constructive) critiquing.

 

[ncorry]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I put together this fairly QD method to mount my PVS14 behind a day optic, in this case a 30mm tube Leupold VXR 3-9X50. I used a Warne QD 30mm high ring (.525" high), a GG&G MultiFlex PVS 14 mount (#1016), a YHM 1/2" riser and a picatinny M16 carry handle rail to fashion this:

Seems to work great. However, I do have to remove the J arm in order to use the charging handle. AR15 is chambered for 300BLK, and is used with subsonics only, so there are some charging issues occasionally, but am attempting to address those with handloading trials and many, many errors, as well as some 5W30 Mobil1.

MEASUREMENTS
The GG&G mount raises the bottom of the PVS14 about 22.9mm, so it puts the center of the PVS14 at 41.24mm- 41.31 above the picatinny rail. The 1/2" YHM riser, the .525" Warne ring and half of the VXR's 30mm tube puts the center of the VXR around 41.03mm above the picatinny rail. So, the two optics' center axis are off by less than .4mm. I can live with that.

ZERO
As for shooting, it holds zero and doesn't change POA/ POI from night to day that I can tell at 50 - 100 yards. Still ringing the 5" steel plate at 200 yards about 6 out of 10 shots with same hold at night, and I can only do 7, maybe 8, out of 10 during the day.

MAGNIFICATION
I was very pleasantly surprised to be able to clearly see the end of a 55 gallon drum ( i.e. 24" circle) at 400 yards and the 250 lb black bear eating out of it on a no moon, cloudy night with the help of a Streamlight SuperTac at 9x. I just have to remember to adjust the PVS14's front focus.

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Well it seems that TNVC no longer makes the adapter. I am in need on one so if anyone has one they would like to sell please PM me. I know there are a few others out there but the price is much higher.

Thanks

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ncorry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put together this fairly QD method to mount my PVS14 behind a day optic, in this case a 30mm tube Leupold VXR 3-9X50. I used a Warne QD 30mm high ring (.525" high), a GG&G MultiFlex PVS 14 mount (#1016), a YHM 1/2" riser and a picatinny M16 carry handle rail to fashion this:

Seems to work great. However, I do have to remove the J arm in order to use the charging handle. AR15 is chambered for 300BLK, and is used with subsonics only, so there are some charging issues occasionally, but am attempting to address those with handloading trials and many, many errors, as well as some 5W30 Mobil1.

MEASUREMENTS
The GG&G mount raises the bottom of the PVS14 about 22.9mm, so it puts the center of the PVS14 at 41.24mm- 41.31 above the picatinny rail. The 1/2" YHM riser, the .525" Warne ring and half of the VXR's 30mm tube puts the center of the VXR around 41.03mm above the picatinny rail. So, the two optics' center axis are off by less than .4mm. I can live with that.

ZERO
As for shooting, it holds zero and doesn't change POA/ POI from night to day that I can tell at 50 - 100 yards. Still ringing the 5" steel plate at 200 yards about 6 out of 10 shots with same hold at night, and I can only do 7, maybe 8, out of 10 during the day.

MAGNIFICATION
I was very pleasantly surprised to be able to clearly see the end of a 55 gallon drum ( i.e. 24" circle) at 400 yards and the 250 lb black bear eating out of it on a no moon, cloudy night with the help of a Streamlight SuperTac at 9x. I just have to remember to adjust the PVS14's front focus.
</div></div>

Very ingenuitive!!!!! Great work and the super tac kicks ass.

 

[2osok]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Nice review, would be nice to see mounting systems , and types of l/r
Big question how do you judge distance at night ,

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Pvs 14 coupled up to 10x super sniper. Super tac IR. Target at 200yds.

 

[D_TROS]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2osok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice review, would be nice to see mounting systems , and types of l/r
Big question how do <span style="font-weight: bold">you judge distance at night</span> , </div></div>

Do some day time scouting the day or two before. Easy Peezy.

Or use your rect. to do some quick numbers.

Or Get a rifle that has no discernible elevation to max effective range (ie 200 yds)

Or zero ytour rifle at the MEF using a program and your kill radius of choice.

Man I want a 14....correction I NEED a 14.
ha

Regards,
DT

 

[ncorry]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2osok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Big question how do you judge distance at night , </div></div>

I usually run the PVS on subsonic rifles, so range is very important, as there is a 6 or 7 inch drop between 100 and 125 on my 44 mag. When walking in to a fixed stand, I try to step off a tree or two, and I've dropped a Phoenix IR beacon or three at known yardages too. THey're cheap and work great.

 

[Fpd257]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

I have the pvs 14 on the monoloc system and can go to helmet quicker and quieter than any other adapter system. I use a swarvo 2.5 -15 56 z6 and can sometimes zoom all the way. Works great no poi problems. Key to pvs 14 on gun is the ir illuminator. Find which one works best with your scope.

 

[JB55]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Why go to all the trouble? TNVC carries one.
http://nvec.tnvc.com/shop/universal-adapter-for-pvs-14/

 

[DrewinTejas]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

JB55 I called TNVC and they no longer carry the adapter

 

[JB55]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Did you try Optics HQ?

 

[ncorry]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Optics Planet has them- $200- http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-optics-day-night-pvs-14-adaptor.html

 

[VisionPro Shop]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Benelli</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the pvs 14 on the monoloc system and can go to helmet quicker and quieter than any other adapter system. I use a swarvo 2.5 -15 56 z6 and can sometimes zoom all the way. Works great no poi problems. Key to pvs 14 on gun is the ir illuminator. Find which one works best with your scope. </div></div>


Agreed on the Monoloc system!

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DrewinTejas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well it seems that TNVC no longer makes the adapter. I am in need on one so if anyone has one they would like to sell please PM me. I know there are a few others out there but the price is much higher.

Thanks </div></div>

We are actually coming out with a new designed unit early next year with vastly improved functionality.

Vic

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

It works better than you would think. As for poi shift.... I've been able to make some long shots with my setup! I didn't think I could but I did.

20"x20" steel target painted white. Unknown distance on a pipe line in Louisiana (flat as a ice rink) drove away and set up to make the shot. I use my reticle to range. 5x25x56 Schmidt pm2 with p4f. I was able to see the target good enough to range the target at 550yrds. I dialed the dope just as I would during the day, ding! .5 MOA high tho. Dialed it down and rang it 3 times for a sub MOA group.

My farthest shot at the same target was 750yrds. It's too far for my setup but its kind of a lucky shot to make a hit that far I believe. It was a pipe line, full moon and I had a small candle lit in front of the target. Dialed it up and ding! But couldn't get back on it after that. The trees had shadowed the target and almost made it disappear.

Here's my setup.

Said shots were made with a AAC cyclone on the rifle.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

Surgeon, what caliber is your set up there in that pic?

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Re: pvs14 behind day optic

.308. Roscoe did a excellent job building it also!