PWS MK114

[B7Anderson]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

Thanks for the input on the TRIAD! Looks like something else to add to the list.

An optics question for you...

I'm currently running an Aimpoint ML3 (2 MOA) on a LaRue mount on my MK116, but would like to run a variable scope to make longer range engagements easier. I'm still helping the last one of my kids through college, so I'm looking for Porsche performance on a VW budget. Since you've seen/used quite a few in your travels, any suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

The_Medic:

Definitely the EBT / MILSPEC is the one you want to go with. The 416 is made out of a different aluminum, and it's design is specifically for the HK-416... however, it WILL work on any standard AR lower receiver. Just go with the MILSPEC one and never look back. I recommend the EBT even to all of my DI shooting friends. It really is a nice piece of kit.

Hope this helps!!!

v/r

DMack

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

DD7:

In regards to optics... I have been contemplating adding my thoughts on this subject. Over the past two years, I have had the opportunity to have several in my possession, from up close fighting optics all the way to distance precision optics. For the MK114 / MK116 I have a few that I would like to highlight.

AIMPOINT PRO: We all know it is a fantastic red dot sight, affordable, and Sherman Tank Tough. The 2 MOA dot can get small enough to be precise, yet bright enough to be seen on a very sunny day. I for one, own two of the PRO's, and it's my favorite red dot sight. They are easy to use, and HOLD ZERO like no other.

EOTech: I don't bash on EOTech, but I will say this. I used to LOVE the EOTech, have even carried one in both theaters of operation, as well as on my duty rifle, and several personal rifles. However, at work, we have a lot of students come through and I have seen this optic fail so often, that I have gotten rid of all of my EOTechs but one. I have not used any of the newer XPS2's, but have seen them in my classes. In the end, I know that EOTech has a great warranty, and makes it right with the end user. After using the Aimpoint PRO's... I find that the EOTech reticle is somewhat "busy". Just my own personal preference. It is a TRUE HOLO sight, and I like that you do not have to have the rifle "mounted" on your shoulder to acquire hits in crazy shooting positions. This is a strong selling point for the EOTech / Aimpoint in a CQB style battle sight.

ACOG: I have two Trijicon TA-31F ACOG's, and have also used this optic overseas. It is a very robust, lightweight optic, that can be used effectively out to 400-500 yards (or meters), as well as up close. I teach an ACOG class, to teach how to properly zero the sight, how to use it's BDC reticle, and how to run it close in. This sight is nice and light... does not require batteries, but I find the zero procedures a bit technical, and I have never been able to get over the whole "tap" thing, on an optic at this price point. For the money, there are WAY more efficient optics out there. However, using a good mount, and zeroed properly... this thing is one tough optic that can do most anything you need it to do with the limitations of the 5.56 / .223 cartridge.

Now, let's talk about variable optics. You stated you want Porsche Performance on a Volkswagen Budget... I totally understand that. So, let me go over a few of the variable powered optics that I have, and have used... I will list the pros and cons of each. Again, this is my own experience, and your mileage may vary.

The most important of ALL to remember, is to use a very high quality mount. I have used the Burris P.E.P.R. and the SWFA S.A.L.T. mounts and find that they are "good enough" for the money. At that price point, make sure to lap the rings, for sometimes they are not concentric. Good quality glass deserves good quality mounts, just like good pistols deserve good leather.

LaRue / American Defense RECON / Nightforce / A.R.M.S. / Vortex / and Alamo Four Square are ALL top notch mounts. I have become a HUGE fan of the Alamo Foursquare one piece billet mounts, and I've also had great use out of the American Defense Recon mounts. Buy once, cry once. All of these mentioned mounts, will HOLD zero if you need to remove the optic. I have the LaRue hand stop on a few of my rifles. They come with these little individual rail covers... thin, and fill the gap of one rail slot. I use this as an index point at the leading edge of all of my mounts, that way I can remove and re-install on the same rail every time, quickly and effortlessly. Just make sure, before you tighten down the mount, you push forward... toward the muzzle and then lock the mount down. This will ensure that your mount stays put under recoil... just food for thought.

Now, optics...

Millet DMS-1: I wrote about this optic a little bit... I used it on my MK114 for a while, and I was very impressed with it for what it costs. I did run it in an American Defense RECON mount, which cost more that the optic itself. I contribute the success of the optic, to the mount. The reticle is nice... but, it has limits. The glass is not high quality, but was usable in bright sunlight... When moving up from one to four power, the optic darkened a bit, which is expected on this price point. The illumination is NOT daylight visible, and it eats batteries quickly. The optic held zero very well, and I was able to make hits onto steel out to 500 yards once I figured my holds out. Bottom line is this... it's a $200 optic, that is adequate. Not great, not crappy. It will do the job. The eye relief is forgiving, but the field of view is not as wide as some of the other optics I have. Here is a link to CTD for this optic:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/53649-34.html


Trijicon 1-4 Accupoint TR-24: I am running this on my GPI SAR-15 right now, and I really like the glass in it. I'm not a huge fan of the reticle, but it works. I have it zeroed at 50 yards, and basically use the tip of the triangle as the aiming reference point, and the ballistic arc is the same as if shooting a red dot or holo sight zeroed at 50 yards. I have the Green triangle, and I find it easy to pick up on one power, as well as when it's on four power. It is a SFP optic, with no graduated scale on the elevation stadia. There are also no wind holds on the reticle... so, effectively, it's a variable powered ACOG, without the BDC reticle. I believe though, that it is a more versatile optic than the ACOG. There is parallax if you are engaging closer than 50 yards though, but it is not terrible. The glass clarity is to be expected... and the power knob is rubberized for ease of grip. The fiber optic window is also turnable, so you can vary the brightness of the reticle. On the ACOG, it is common place to put tape over the fiber optic "rod" to adjust intensity of the reticle. This optic is NOT my favorite, but the more I shoot it, the more I like it. Like anything, you have to train it to be good with it. Still, at this price point, there are more efficient optics in my opinion. Here is a link to it:

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR24

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ok, continuing right along...

Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 : I am currently running this optic on my PWS MK114 in FFP configuration. When I ordered this optic, I spoke with the Bushnell folks, and since I am a huge fan of the FFP in my precision optics, I went with the FFP reticle in this optic. Now, I am having second thoughts... I will explain. The reticle design in this optic, is nice. Here is a link to the reticle, so you can imagine as I discuss... it is the BTR reticle.

http://www.bushnell.com/products/scopes/...987BBF7&n=3

Ok, first of all, the glass is absolutely amazing. On one power, it is a TRUE one power... no detectable parallax close in, or far out. You can shoot both eyes open, with zero issues. The field of view his giant. But, you do have to have the rifle "mounted" to your shoulder, due to eye relief. Also, due to the way the optic plane is, you can not use your iron sights (BUIS) through the scope, on one power. It's physically (physics) impossible. Rolling the mag up to six point five power... the reticle tracks brilliantly, and subtends perfectly. There are ten mils of graduation on the elevation side, which allowed me to hit steel out to 600 yards effortlessly. Now, for the downside on the FFP. On one power, the reticle is essentially too "small" to see without the illumination turned on. On fast "up" drills, I lose the reticle without it being lit. The illumination is, however, BRILLIANT! Very much daylight visible even in the Florida noon time sun. The battery life is outstanding. I'm still using the original one that came shipped with the optic. I have it mounted in an American Defense Recon, and I really like this optic. I have a SFP version shipping to me next week, so I can add if the SFP will be better on one power, as far as seeing the "donut dot" without illumination. The optic holds zero perfectly, and the MIL graduations subtend the way they should. This is not a precision optic, so you are never intended to be "dialing dope" into the turrets. The capped turrets are perfect for a dual purpose "battle / spr" rifle. I have also put this optic in the pool, so I can attest that it is waterproof for over an hour of submerged water play. I've also had it in salt water... with no issues. My only gripe is the turrets. They are made so you can lift up on them for them to freely spin, to "zero" the turrets once you get your POA / POI set. This is nice, but... not necessary on this type of optic. I also don't like how the turrets "wiggle". They should be solid and not wiggle at this price point. I have discussed this at length with Bushnell, and they are working on this problem. Capped though, the turrets do not move, and the zero is rock solid. All in all, this glass is amazing for the AR platform. Definitely a two thumbs up from me.

Vortex PST 1-4: Ok, Vortex... these guys are really getting my attention. The PST line is not the HD line, but the price point is something you should look at. This glass retails for $569 - $599 and I can highly recommend it. It is a SFP design, that has a few reticle options. As stated on the Bushnell, I am of the belief that a variable power 1-4 / 1-6 should be SFP. If I need to use the MIL scale, I will roll the power up to full power anyway, even if the reticle is FFP. So, don't sweat the SFP design. You can get this in a MOA or MRAD version. Just make sure you get the reticle you are comfortable with. I am a MIL guy... so, all of my math, DOPE, etc... is done in MIL's. However, the PST that has capped turrets is of the MOA variety. This is a non issue, since the turrets and reticle match. For a hard use rig, the capped turrets is what I would recommend. There is no way to bump them and loose zero... This optic will be a very good choice to fit your Porsche vs VW budget. Here is a link to it... download the manual and read about it.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-mrad-reticle

US Optics: I am a HUGE fan / supporter of US Optics. I have many of their products, and I would use them on duty, in combat, on the range, and in a deadly force situation without any thought of them failing me. The new SN4 Dual Reticle is the cream of the crop. It allows you to have the best of both worlds... a segmented circle / dot on the SFP, with a MIL Scale on the FFP. Plus, you get the legendary US Optics toughness, custom build (built to your specs), and choice of different knob / turret / reticle / Illumination features. Give Jason Kyle a call at USO, and tell him I sent you. He will talk to you extensively about your needs... and set you up with the proper kit. Hands down, I recommend them... if you can swing it.

http://www.usoptics.com/optics/cqb-scope.html

There are other variable power optics out there... I have given a snap shot of the ones that I truly use all the time. I hope this helps. Please feel free to PM me with specific questions. I am all about putting the BEST kit in the end user's hands. I will also tell it just like it is. Money is hard to come by, so I want you to make the most informed decision you can. I can tell you that Bushnell and US Optics are VERY easy to deal with. Both are in the same price range, the Bushy has a bit more magnification, but... US Optics is a custom builder.

Best of luck in your decision.

v/r

DMack

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

I will have much more input on this topic, I just have to step away from the computer... stay tuned.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ok, I'm back for a bit. I wanted to highlight a few more optics that I feel should be included in this conversation.

First, the SWFA 1-4x24: I do not have one of these, but I have shot with it. It is a very nice optic for the price. It is of the FFP variety, but, I find that the reticle in the SWFA is easier to pick up on one power, than the Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 FFP on one power. Especially when the illumination is not turned on. I know that SWFA has now released a 1-6 that is getting top notch reviews, but I have not had the chance to give one a go. There are tons of articles on the two SWFA choices, and some good reviews on them here on Sniper's Hide.

Here is a link to the SWFA 1-4:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx

Here is the SWFA 1-6:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

I have owned several of the SWFA optics over the years. Their turrets are absolutely reliable, and their HD glass is very good for the price point. These are two heavy hitters, that you can give consideration to. I just do not have one in my possession to give a really good go at, and form an unbiased opinion.

Meopta Meostar 1-4x24:

I have not used this glass, nor have I had the chance to see one in person. However, I have a very good friend of mine, that is a National Level 3 gun competitor that swears by it. He runs this optic on a few of his 3 gun rifles, and always tells me I need to pick one up. I trust him when he says that they are tough, great quality, and dependable. However, having so many options already, it's not one that I would be searching for. If I was starting from scratch, and didn't have options in my safe already, I would give it a serious look.

Here's a link to it:

http://www.skdtac.com/Meopta-Meostar-Red-Dot-p/meo.101.htm

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Nightforce also has a 1-4 offering... in their NXS line. I have not used this extensively, but I have put one magazine through one during a class I was instructing. One of the students had it on his AR, and I just didn't get "on" with it. He had the MilDot Cross hair... and I found it a bit hard to find the center point in a hurry. The glass is Nightforce clear, and the illumination worked in the daylight... but, if it had a more CQB friendly (Donut Dot) style reticle with subtension marks, I would have liked it more. Also, for it's price point, you can find more user friendly reticles, in my opinion.

Here is a link:

http://nightforceoptics.com/1-4x24-nxs-riflescope/

There are so many choices in the intermediate range battle rifle optics category. A true 1-4 power is brilliant on a 5.56 / .223 and I think eventually, they will take the edge on battle style rifles in Law Enforcement Duty Use, as well as in the Military some day. The 1-4 variable is a well rounded optic, given the proper reticle, and proper training to the end user, really rounds out the rifle to the extent of the cartridge.

More magnification is not ALWAYS better. The 1-6ish style gives even more precision, but to a cost in weight, and complexity. Any one of the optics that I mentioned, will serve you well. Take your time, read, research, go to stores and pick them up... in the end, it's all about personal preference, and of course... BUDGET.

I'm running the Bushnell very hard, and I can't wait to get the SFP version to test side by side with the FFP version. I will let you know which I like.

But, letting go of $1300 to $1500 hard earned dollars on a 1-4 optic is an intimidating thought. However, it is something that will last you as long as you need it, if you choose wisely and use a good solid mount.

All the best in your decision. The PWS MK1 series rifle (112-116) really does well with a 1-4 variable optic. You will get more out of this platform, than you will with a simple "red dot".

All the best, be safe. I hope this shed some light and got you thinking.

DMack Out.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ok, update... I just got a Vortex PST 1-4 in an American Defense Recon Mount... to give it a good evaluation. I have not gotten it in my hands yet, so I don't know which reticle it is, but I will add my unbiased opinion as to how it stacks up against my other 1-x optics... excited, I am.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack, if you get the chance it would be nice to get your opinion on the Burris MTAC 1-4x24. TIA.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

fngmike,

I have not had the chance to use the Burris MTAC, but I have used the Burris AR-332 Prism Sight. This has the same reticle as the MTAC, and knowing that, I can already state that I am not a fan. In all fairness, the reticle is a wee bit too "thick" for precise use, and a bit too "busy" for close in. That is my limited opinion on it. I have no experience on the MTAC 1-4, maybe that makes a difference. One thing about BDC type reticles, is that they are generally calibrated for a specific load / velocity / caliber.

Now, you CAN use a BDC for different platforms, you just need to carefully calibrate your drop data for specific ranges. In other words, the ACOG TA-31F that is calibrated for 5.56 is done so, for a 14.5" barrel, using M855 "green tip"... and is fairly accurate as far as bullet trajectory. Now, I have effectively used the TA-31F reticle for 77 grain OTM, 69 grain SMK's, 60 Grain TAP, etc.. out of a 10.5" barrel, 12.5" barrel, 14.5" barrel and a 16" barrel... on steel out to distance, just have to adjust my holds for the proper drop.

I will do my best to try and get one of the MTAC's in my hands, and give it a go. I'm shooting the Vortex PST tomorrow, in training... so, I will give my opinion on it in low light as well.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Brown Santa just dropped off a box from PWS. Inside, I found the new extended rails for the MK1 series rifle. I will be installing these on my MK114 tonight. I will post pictures to show the difference...

Stay tuned PWS fans!

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ok, the new rails are two inches longer than the original rails. Very easy install... you need some snap ring pliers, and an allen wrench.

Here it is with the original rails... (my white balance was off, sorry for the blue tint, was in a hurry)

Here is the new rails installed. The side rails are now 11.75 inches long, as opposed to 9.75...

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

New Rail beside the Old Rail:

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

The top rail extends further too, for backup sights. This will lengthen your sight radius, and allow for more precise shots with irons...

I really like how you can stretch out on them now. Plus it will allow me to move my bipod out further.

I hope they make these for the MK214 as well...

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=343&idcategory=18

That is the link to the new extended rails for the MK112, MK114 and MK116.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack...if I missed it, smack me, but any time behind the Elcan? I see them pop up on the samplelist from time to time. Had a chance to look one over a couple months ago and was impressed with the glass. Looking for an alternative to an aimpoint pro, EOtech xps or acog for the MK110.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

BS1:

In all fairness, I have NOT used the ELCAN down range, but... I have a little time on one in training. So, I can not offer any detailed pros and cons, only observations, and input from those I trust.

First off, you asked me about the ELCAN in relation to the Aimpoint PRO, EOTech XPS, and ACOG. All of these are completely different than the ELCAN.

The ELCAN is a "tube style" optic, which means, you have to have the rifle mounted on your shoulder to see the reticle properly. It is not a red dot, or a holo sight. So, you still have the drawbacks that other tube style optics or the ACOG has to deal with... eye relief.

It does, however, give you some options... going from a 1 power optic to a 4 power optic with a simple "flick" of the lever. The lens inside, rotates, sort of like the eye doctor's device does when they are performing an eye exam for corrective lenses. I don't know all the engineering aspects of it, just observations.

The reticle that I have experienced is a BDC type reticle, calibrated for the M4 (14.5" barrel, 1:7 twist, 62 grain M855 NATO). The ELCAN has the option to illuminate the reticle, or run it non-illuminated. It can be used with night vision, however I have not tested this.

One of my Staff members had one on his rifle over in Afghanistan, and he had great things to say about it. His one thing he didn't like was, the zero process is a wee bit fiddly. There is a "locking lever" (his words) on the right side of the sight, which you lift up, to spin the knurled wheel to adjust your elevation for zero. This "locking lever" can actually come up without the operator meaning it to, and can allow the elevation wheel to spin freely, essentially allowing your optic to lose zero. I have no experience with this, so I can not say one way or the other.

The premise of this sight is to use it in 1x "red dot" mode for CQB / Walking in and out of buildings... etc. Then, you can switch to 4x mode, for medium / longer distances. I like the premise, but...

In my opinion, for the money, there are better, more versatile sights to be had for the average citizen. These ELCAN sights are tough, built for the average "Joe" in boots, and have seen use overseas. It fills in the gap where the ACOG falls short... up close. In all fairness, I run an ACOG in the shoot house, up close. I just cover the objective of the ACOG, and run it both eyes open. It works... but not optimal.

In the end, it's Consumer's choice. It depends on what YOU want, what YOU can afford, and what YOU will train on and become proficient with.

You said you want it on your MK110... I have run the ACOG, the Aimpoint PRO, and now a Trijicon TR-24 1-4 on my MK110. My "go to" sight is my PRO. It allows me to make hits to 300 meters and beyond, with zero difficulties. It also allows me to work in the shoot house, with UTM / SIM wearing a SIMUNITION protective mask.

So, there we have it. One guy's take with limited experience on it. There are a ton of reviews out there... and there are blokes that have way more time on one than I have. My first impression of the ELCAN is that I didn't get on with it that well. My impression is the same today. However, if I had one, to use all the time, my impression may change.

Hope this helps Brother...

Cheers!

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: PWS MK114

Thank you for the detailed response...and it all makes sense. The Elcan may be better suited on an M4gery or DMR.

 

[ncpilot]

Re: PWS MK114

Regardless of my intended use, would I be negligent if I didn't buy the MK216 @$2250? (That a local dealer has in stock) At this point the use would be limited to range use out to 400 yds ( with 1k range under construction)

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

NCPilot...

That is a VERY fair price for a MK216. The only thing you would have to do is add a quality trigger of your choice, bipods, and quality glass.

You will be good to go with very repeatable consistency out to 600 yards, easily. Even beyond with the proper ammo (M118LR).

I would be all over that MK216 if you are able.

 

[ncpilot]

Re: PWS MK114

Might be a bit much glass, but yesterday I got my Vortex PST 6-24 MRAD SFP...(I've got old eyes! Thank you Scott at Liberty Optics)

Thanks for helping me spend my money! LOL

No mount yet... Don't want to beat up the dealer, but I might press for more of a package deal since I really never planned on spending that much for a .308...

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

American Defense Recon, LaRue, or my personal favorite... Alamo Four Star... all make fantastic one piece mounts for the flat top AR platform. Take your time, get your eye relief set right, and put a good trigger in it, and it will serve you well.

I find that the Magpul ACS or the EMod make great stocks for the MK2 series rifle.

Post up in the MK214 thread with some pictures, and range report when you start turning gunpowder into noise... your thoughts and observations are very welcomed.

Welcome to the PWS tribe.

 

[truth]

Re: PWS MK114

Finally got around to shooting some pics of the mk114. Nothing fancy, just a couple snaps in the yard before putting everything back in the safe from a little jaunt to the desert. Really loving this rifle. Was looking for something lighter and more "pointable" than my Robarm XCR for carbine courses and what not and I couldn't be more pleased. All the run forever reliability of a piston in a much lighter and more agile package. The XCR was really a nose heavy pig and it got old fast if you're running it for hours in a class. This thing you can carry all day and never feel it. I think I've finally settled into this configuration so now all it needs is some paint or a dip job.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Put a good 1-4 or 1-6 on that puppy, with the SD-E trigger in there, it is a TACK DRIVER and fully capable to 600 yards. It is truly a "do everything" AR.

Nice!!!

Glad she is treating you well. The more you shoot it, the better it runs.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

A little phone camera shot of my MK110... it got ran HARD today.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Had a very good training session last night with a Sheriff's Office Rifle Security Team... my hat is tilted back, from using my camera earlier... Todd from PWS HATES my hat... LOL

No, it's not uniform, I know that.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

My MK114 getting run hard... it's wearing the new extended rails, and the Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 optic...

 

[truth]

Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put a good 1-4 or 1-6 on that puppy, with the SD-E trigger in there, it is a TACK DRIVER and fully capable to 600 yards. It is truly a "do everything" AR.

Nice!!!

Glad she is treating you well. The more you shoot it, the better it runs.</div></div>

I've got a TA-33 that I shoot well with so that may find it's way on to it, but I want this gun to be light and fast. I've got a new to me used GAP-10 for reaching out. I have been amazed how accurate I am with this set up on the move against 50% IPSC steel from the 75-50 yard range. It's silly how fast you can ring the head and empty a mag. Been having a blast blasting away at steel with it. Put the fun back in the AR platform for me for sure. Tough to motivate to shoot the pistols lately.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

The new extended rails sure allow you to stretch out and run the muzzle...

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ran the MK114 again today... very hard. Sand blowing everywhere... I wish I had something to say... but, it just keeps on going.

I got the new XS Express Big Dot Sights for the AR... I mounted them on my MK110, and just playing in the house, I really like them. I run these on all of my handguns, so my eyes naturally pick them up. Here's a link to them...

Since I am running an ACOG TA31F on my MK110 now, this really makes sense.

http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights

 

[truth]

Re: PWS MK114

Nice, I've been running the XS on all my carry guns for a few years now and have been wondering about that offset mount on an AR. Look forward to hearing your take.

 

[pnorris]

Re: PWS MK114

Just got my mk114 today. Looks great, however, I am struggling to get the rail covers on. Is there any trick, as I am feeling pretty retarded right now. Help me. Thanks : )

 

[pnorris]

Re: PWS MK114

Nevermind figured out the tkrick

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: PWS MK114

Damn yall with all this Mk114 talk, still waiting on mine to ship

 

[SoTex]

Re: PWS MK114

Dmack, I realize I am a little late on this thread but was reading through it today and had a couple of questions.

Am I right in reading that a standard DI AR bolt can be run in this gun in the event of lug shear on the PWS bolt? I saw where you compared the S&W M&P bolt to the Mk114 bolt; have you run that DI bolt in the PWS much? If so, any problems?

Also, I am really interested in your take on the new SN4 DFP you've mentioned a couple of times. I understand you are dealing with the 1-4 version as opposed to the 1.5-6. Have you handled both? I am interested in how "picky" eye position is at the low magnification end of both models.

Lots of great info in this thread, as well as the Mk214 thread.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

SoTex,

Sorry that it took me so long to get back with you... I was out at Eglin, AFB doing a rifle demo for the Airport Police out there.

To answer your question... yes. A standard MILSPEC DI bolt, will run flawlessly in the PWS MK1 carrier. Even with the gas rings still on it. Or, you can take the gas rings off of the DI bolt, and it will run... as long as the head space is correct. I keep a spare Colt DI bolt in the MIAD on my MK114 now... just in case. Simply due to the HIGH round count that is on the bolt... I have recently passed 23K rounds through the MK114 and it still runs strong.

As for the SN4 from US Optics... I have used the 1.5-6 in the field, with great results. However, I have the 1-4 in build... I am waiting to hear back from Arnold on it. As soon as I get it, I will be able to speak more intelligently on it. To say that I am anxious... is an understatement. I found the eye relief on the US Optics stuff to be on par with the SN3 optics. It's very generous compared to the "cheaper" optics out there.

The Vortex PST 1-4 is impressing me without words... this is a very nice little optic for the money.

Let me know if there is anything else I can answer... I'm an open book.

Cheers!

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

wnroscoe...

Let us know when you get yours. Out of the box, it shoots lights out. Put a good trigger in it... lube it... work the action... and run the snot out of it. It deserves good glass too... that rifle will make you smile, ear to ear.

I look forward to hearing your take on it...

DMack

 

[SoTex]

Re: PWS MK114

In the interest of not taking over the thread with an optics discussion, check your PMs Dmack.

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

If I could ask a question, maybe two. I'm considering a PWS MK1 basically for range use, possibly the SHTF gun. I'm also thinking about a SBR to possibly add a sound suppressor on. That said, I'm considering everything from an MK114, MK112, or even an MK110.

1) For a general purpose gun, is there one that you (as a group, or DMack) generally recommend?

2) SBR/Suppressed Options: If I go through all that, what are the pro's & con's between the MK112, MK110, or the 7" Diablo for that matter? I kind of like the idea of the standard length piston system that I'm told the MK116/14/12 have for recoil and wear & tear, however I'm also wondering if I should not just go for the 10" barrel if I'm going to go the SBR route. Otherwise, is there enough of a difference between the MK114 and MK112 to bother with the MK112 for a SBR?

-Cheers

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

SoTex and Dave...

I am teaching Active Shooter today. I will respond in detail tonight...

Cheers!

DMack

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Dave,

First of all, thank you for the questions... let me see if I can hit them all in detail. I apologize for not getting back sooner, I've been teaching Active Shooter the past two days, and it's taken a lot of my time. So, here we go...

You mention "general purpose"... I'm assuming, general range duty, defense, offense (if the need arises) and a possible use during a survival / civil unrest to protect you and your family's life.

You seem to be interested in a Short Barreled Rifle... and are torn between the MK107, MK110, MK112 and the other MK114 vs MK116.

First, let's discuss the general differences between the MK114 and MK116. They are both using the same internals, and externals, the only difference being the length of barrel, and the fact that minus a need for a Tax Stamp for the MK116. The MK114 ships with the SM556 (very similar to the FSC556) pinned to the barrel to make it 16.1 over all length. This negates the need for a tax stamp, and keeps the MK114 out of SBR territory. If you order the MK114 without a fixed muzzle device, it is considered by the ATF as a short barreled rifle. But, I'm quite sure you know this.

So, I always recommend the MK114 to people... it's really an easy rifle to move around, and it's got velocity to get out to 600 yards easily. Unless you need to remove the muzzle device, it's the way to go.

Now, the SBR... I don't find that the SBR is any more relevant than the MK114... unless you are a collector, and want to have a short barreled rifle (and live in a state where they are allowed) or you need them for work (like me). The SBR is a very cool gadget, and makes the rifle easier to move with, easier to conceal, transport, etc... however, you need the Tax Stamp. With that, comes the whole BATFE thing... if you are willing to wait, and have the ability through a trust or the Chief Law Enforcement Officer's Signature, then SBR's are way cool.

The MK107 is a niche gun. It is designed as a CQB / PDW and does a great job replacing the MP5. But, it's short barrel decreases velocity, which decreases maximum effective range.

The MK110 and the MK112 are very similar. Todd from PWS tells me that the MK110 is hands down, the most accurate of the MK1 series rifles. I can attest to it's accuracy, for I have a MK110. However, the MK112 has two inches more barrel, and definitely has more velocity. The two point very much the same.

As for the bolt carrier / operating rod and being concerned with wear... don't be. They both run very well, and there is zero wear on my MK110. I don't shoot it as often as I do my MK114, but I have put over 5k rounds though it.

So, having said it all... if I had to do it once and be done with it, I would do the MK114 with the extended rails. But, if you need / have to have a SBR... it would be a hard choice between the MK110 and the MK112.

The MK112 gives you a wee bit more velocity, and will give you extended range. However, I routinely shoot on steel at 500 yards with my MK110.

I hope this helps... either rifle you get, you will love. PWS rifles shoot very, very well.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

I don't know if I posed this... and I normally don't shoot groups. But, I was testing out the Black Hills 77 grain OTM on the MK114 back in February. Optic at the time was a Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 and the low six o'clock flier was me, shanking it. Blew my nice group... but, with the round count that I have on this rifle, I will take this all day long.

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I apologize for not getting back sooner</div></div>

No need for that. I'm just grateful for your reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You mention "general purpose"... I'm assuming, general range duty, defense, offense (if the need arises) and a possible use during a survival / civil unrest to protect you and your family's life.</div></div>

Exactly. It will mainly be a range gun, however I always consider firearms through the lens of possibly having to use them (e.g. defense, offensive/survival, etc.). Obviously I'm hoping the "protecting your family" role never comes into play, however that is in my mindset. I still want to have fun with it, however...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You seem to be interested in a Short Barreled Rifle... and are torn between the MK107, MK110, MK112 and the other MK114 vs MK116.</div></div>

You've answered some of this already. However, I am considering a SBR or a full-sized. If going "full-sized" I was leaning (heavily) toward the MK114 simply because from what I've read it is a bit lighter and easier to maneuver. SBR, I was thinking MK110 unless there was some advantage to the longer piston system (as I understand it) of the MK112. If I go SBR, it would be for use with a suppressor, thinking if I ever did have to use it for HD/SHTF. Plus, I can appreciate a quieter suppressed gun.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, let's discuss the general differences between the MK114 and MK116.

Yeah, I gathered they were largely the same. Can you throw a can on the end of an MK114 w/ the SM556?

Now, the SBR... I don't find that the SBR is any more relevant than the MK114... unless you are a collector, and want to have a short barreled rifle (and live in a state where they are allowed) or you need them for work (like me). The SBR is a very cool gadget, and makes the rifle easier to move with, easier to conceal, transport, etc... however, you need the Tax Stamp. With that, comes the whole BATFE thing... if you are willing to wait, and have the ability through a trust or the Chief Law Enforcement Officer's Signature, then SBR's are way cool.</div></div>

I'm not really a collector and do not require it for any job-related stuff. I'm considering it mainly for:
1) Use With a Sound Suppressor: Part of this is fun, and part of it is if I ever had to use it in-home. Again, it will probably never happen, I sure as @#$% hope it does not. However, still a consideration.
2) Fun: A secondary concern, however if they are dramatically more fun to shoot with little-to-no downside, I can get the trust, tax stamp, and whatnot out of the way. Granted, all things being equal I'd go with the MK114 and save myself some cash. However, if it will end up being a significantly more fun/practical gun I am fine with the one-time (I think) procedure of setting up a trust then the $200 stamp per SBR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MK110 and the MK112 are very similar. Todd from PWS tells me that the MK110 is hands down, the most accurate of the MK1 series rifles.

[snip]

As for the bolt carrier / operating rod and being concerned with wear... don't be. They both run very well, and there is zero wear on my MK110. I don't shoot it as often as I do my MK114, but I have put over 5k rounds though it.</div></div>

Good to know. I would have thought the longer the more accurate. If I do go SBR, I'd probably go MK110 (unless the longer piston system of the MK112 gave me some significant advantage). Reason being I might as well go shorter if I'm paying the extra time & money for it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, having said it all... if I had to do it once and be done with it, I would do the MK114 with the extended rails. But, if you need / have to have a SBR... it would be a hard choice between the MK110 and the MK112.</div></div>

If I could ask, in my situation based on the above, any thoughts about going MK114 vs SBR (MK110)? I'm not trying to make you make the decision for me, just wondering if from the outside looking in one sounds like might be a better fit than the other.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope this helps... either rifle you get, you will love. PWS rifles shoot very, very well. </div></div>

Definitely! Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated. I'm really excited about whichever one I get.

-Cheers

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Suppressors are not created equally... some are more gassy than others. The MK110 runs fine with some, not so fine with others. PWS shares the same view as I do. You either suppress a rifle, and run it that way, zero it, be done with it... or don't suppress it. To have adjustable gas blocks (for the masses) invites trouble. Not every gun owner is gun SAVVY. In fact, the vast majority are not. So, PWS came out with a MK110b that has a slightly different gas port, gas block, and it is designed to run suppressed.

For the most part, I have heard nothing but positive things. I know of one guy that is having trouble with the MK110b and his M4-2000 suppressor, but he is the minority. PWS is making this right for him as we speak.

My MK107 runs fine with the Brevis Delta P compact can... but, I had to go to a heavy buffer to keep the carrier speed down with 5.56 ammo. I have a 9mm buffer in it, and it runs like a top now. With the ST2 buffer, it was ok for a bit, but once the can filled up with gas, it would strip the extractor off of the case rim... too much carrier speed. Once I put the 9mm buffer in there, it has zero issues.

So, as stated... call Stacey at PWS and discuss suppressors with him... what works, what does not work... and he will certainly steer you in the right direction.

Best of luck, and let us know what you come up with.

Cheers!

DMack

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PWS shares the same view as I do. You either suppress a rifle, and run it that way, zero it, be done with it... or don't suppress it. To have adjustable gas blocks (for the masses) invites trouble.</div></div>

That makes sense. Thinking of it that way, I prefer a simple system where you get it set up right and leave it. Whether I'm savvy or not, I like to avoid over-complicating things just so there is less chance of me screwing something up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, as stated... call Stacey at PWS and discuss suppressors with him... what works, what does not work... and he will certainly steer you in the right direction.

Best of luck, and let us know what you come up with.

Cheers!

DMack </div></div>

Thanks. For now, I'm thinking of just getting a PWS MK114, then over time get a nice sound suppressor (I'll have to call Stacey and pick his brain),set up a trust, get the paperwork done for an SBR, and THEN worry about getting an MK110b. By that time I'll probably have my MK114 and thousands of rounds downrange and maybe enough money on the side to order the MK110b.

Thank you very much for the replies, they've been extremely helpful.

-Cheers

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

I do not think it is taboo to ask, if it is mods can delete it or I can edit it out. However, is there a particularly good dealer for PWS guns/parts a/o one that offers discounts to retired military servicemen? I'm thinking of going in with my dad and getting an MK114 sooner than later.

-Cheers

 

[B7Anderson]

Re: PWS MK114

Dave,

When I first started shopping for a MK116, I was surfing the web and came across a dealer in OR who quoted me a good price for a new one after I mentioned that I was retired military. The URL is "www.littlebeargunshop.com".

I was intending to purchase one from him and have it shipped to my local FFL dealer, but I was running out of room in my safe and decided to trade in my Robinson XCRs instead, so went with my local dealer. Long story short - I got a good deal on his 'demo' MK116 and like it so much that I sold both XCRs and acquired a new MK216. I have been totally pleased with both and customer service from PWS has been outstanding.

Hope this helps...

DD7

 

[pnorris]

Re: PWS MK114

Dmack,
Any thought on installing the POF roller cam pin in the MK114. I really like POF's design and I was curious as to your thoughts. I just seems like such a logical design.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

pnorris...

Yes, you could install that with no issues... but my question is why? I have a HUGE round count on my MK114, and have had zero issues with the cam pin wearing. Again... it's something to spend money on, but not needed.

I have MANY AR rifles, and none have the roller cam pin. None have issues with galling, or dragging, so I don't think that is something that you need.

In the end, it's your rifle. It won't hurt anything if you use it.

My advice is to get a good trigger in there, put the best stock that fits you, and some good glass... and run the snot out of it.

Just my opinion.