PWS MK114

[taseal]

Re: PWS MK114

Impressive... You know it's a laser when you're putting out groups like this with a flier out of a rifle that was never meant to be surgical precision!

.695moa with flier (5 rounds)
.511moa without flier. (4 rounds)

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

taseal,

That is actually a ten round group, with a called flier. But, who's counting anyway.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Re: PWS MK114

Thanks so much to you all for posting your experiances with the pws platforms. I plan on buying the MK114 and 214 this summer. After I get them my other ars will be sold.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Re: PWS MK114

Also Dmack - what are your impressions of the ior 1 to 4 power scope line up?

 

[Doctawho]

Re: PWS MK114

Excellent review you have here and I love how you're up to date with the posts on here. I'm sure you helped PWS sell ALOT of rifles. I hope they're paying you!

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Just finished 15 days off the grid... More to follow.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

dixiejarhead:

I've been out of the loop / off the grid for a while, sorry that it took me this long to get back with you.

As for the IOR series of optics, I have not used them. I do, however, have a VERY good friend that uses IOR, and has done some consulting with that company. They produced a reticle that he designed, and it's brilliant. However, I have not used them... so I can not comment on the performance compared to other optics.

I can say this, the Vortex PST 1-4 has REALLY surprised me. It has held up brilliantly on duty, and used in several call outs. It's economical and does the job.

I recently got the Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 in SFP, and must say, it's my favorite so far.

Don't hesitate to ask any more questions if you have them.

v/r

DMack

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

Hopefully this isn't too far off-topic, however since we're talking optics...

I'm most likely going with the MK114 for now. I'm trying to decide which optics to go with. I'll probably stick with the iron sights for a while, but would like some optics for CQB and some moderate distance. Not necessarily long-distances. I'm also cross-eye dominant (it seems to switch and if I concentrate on it I can use either) so I'm not sure if any particular style would work better for that. As of now, I'm interested in either a 1-to-4x, or an Eotech or Red Eye. Any thoughts? I know it's not an MK1-specific question, just figured it kinda/sorta fit into the ongoing discussion of this thread.

-Cheers

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

MK1-specific question, do they have any specific ideas for the future? Just curious if/how they might evolve the product or if they think it's in its more-or-less final form. I've heard they tweaked the MK110 a bit.

-Cheers

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Dave,

The MK114 with a good trigger, and an AIM POINT PRO would do you perfectly. I can routinely hit steel to 500 yards with the PRO on my MK110 with zero difficulties. Cross Eye Dominance is not that big of a deal with a red dot / holo type sight... magnified optics is where it presents a challenge. I see guys on teams shoot very well right handed, with a left dominate eye, using the AIMPOINT or EOTECH.

Just put a good trigger in your MK114 to get the accuracy out of it, that lies dormant in there.

As for the future, there is not much more that can be tweaked on these rifles. They want to build the most robust, accurate, hard use rifle, in a certain price point. Sure, sexy billet, ambi controls, etc... all ramps up the price.

The "tweak" on the MK110 was the MK110B. It was a relocation of the gas block, to help with suppressor use. That is all.

I know they are working on some gas block stuff for the MK2 series rifles, to facilitate suppressor use... but, they have a solid platform, and not much has to be done.

They seriously ARE hard use rifles.

Cheers!

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

Hey DMack, first off thanks. Just a few clarifiers and one more question.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave,

The MK114 with a good trigger, and an AIM POINT PRO would do you perfectly. I can routinely hit steel to 500 yards with the PRO on my MK110 with zero difficulties. Cross Eye Dominance is not that big of a deal with a red dot / holo type sight... magnified optics is where it presents a challenge. I see guys on teams shoot very well right handed, with a left dominate eye, using the AIMPOINT or EOTECH.

Just put a good trigger in your MK114 to get the accuracy out of it, that lies dormant in there.</div></div>

So something like an AIMPOINT Pro, maybe a Geissele SSA-E or SD-E or the like, and call it a day?

I <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> I'd be o.k. with magnified, since I'm going to learn to shoot righty AND lefty, and I am getting better at targeting with the correct eye for however I'm shooting. Still, if a red dot/holo sight works for my criteria and seems less "risky" then I am cool with that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for the future, there is not much more that can be tweaked on these rifles. They want to build the most robust, accurate, hard use rifle, in a certain price point. Sure, sexy billet, ambi controls, etc... all ramps up the price.

[snip]

They seriously ARE hard use rifles.</div></div>

Yeah, makes sense. I was not doubting their service-capability or anything, just wondering if/how they might be planning on tweaking things (or not) just out of curiosity as to its possible evolutionary track. And yeah, the MK110B gas block location "tweak" was what I was thinking of.

As for my other question, I've heard that in extended shooting (which I'd like to do) and magazine dumps (which I'll only do if I want to be a prick a/o get kicked out of my gun range, which I don't) the rails can get a bit hot. Obviously gloves, but if I'm adding a grip, is there any heat-dispersion advantage to the vertical grip over the angled fore grips, or are they a horse apiece? Basically, just wondering which one I should pick up first, unless there is no real difference.

-Cheers

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

ARs get hot. It's a fact that we deal with. The rails on the PWS get hot. But, they ship these nifty rail covers with the rifle that work wonderfully well.

I shoot with gloves. I also have an AFG on my MK107, a VTAC UVG on my MK110, and just a LaRue hand stop on my MK114. Have not noticed a difference in heat management between them. Get what makes you comfortable, and shoot the not out of it.

The extended rail add on is a nice upgrade to the MK114...

 

[vizi0123]

Re: PWS MK114

I'm in the process of ordering a PWS MK1 rifle. I'm torn between the mk114 and the mk116. This will be my first AR and i don't really know the advantages of the 14.5 barrel vs the 16". I'm planning to shoot out to about 200 yards at my local range. Can anyone recommend which one i should get and maybe why? Thanks guys.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

The MK110 is capable to 500 yards, as is the MK114 and the MK116... the difference between the MK114 and the MK116 is 1.5" of barrel... and a pinned muzzle device on the MK114 to make it BATFE compliant (No NFA Stamp required).

So, if you plan on changing your muzzle device later, then go with the MK116. If you don't care, then go with the MK114, put a good trigger in it, some good glass, and shoot the snot out of it.

For me, the MK114 is the best all around AR platform out there. Bar none.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Then again, I love my MK110, and my MK107, and my MK214 as well...

 

[vizi0123]

Re: PWS MK114

Thx, i guess I'll get the mk114 since i like the shorter profile.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

vizi... you will love it.

 

[GreenSwampMan]

Re: PWS MK114

Hey DMack. Been following this thread since the beginning when I found it during my search for my first ar-15 carbine. I live on my family's 1500 acre ranch in central florida where we run cattle and also do a large amount of both guided and recreational hunting. Encounters with poachers, cattle thieves, and inevitably rough conditions called for an incredibly reliable, accurate, and tough platform. After finding this thread and researching the design and PWS itself I was sold. I got my Mk114 and after a year of hardcore abuse and unfailing reliability through 5k Rounds I couldn't be happier. Thanks for all the info. Got one question for ya. If I put the extended rails on Mk114, how badly will it alter that perfect balance that I love?

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

GSM... I'm glad you are loving your rifle... They really are very reliable. As for the extended rails, the only benie I can see is the ability to stretch your arm out a wee bit further, or mount your front sight out further to increase sight radius if using iron sights.

I shoot from bipods a lot, so that is nice... To get them out further towards the muzzle. As for balance, it only helps it... Doesn't hurt it.

Let me know if you have a feral hog problem... I'd love to come do some live tissue testing!

Again... Glad your MK114 is treating you as well as mine has treated me.

Cheers!

 

[CCCCanuck]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

Any input/opinion on Paul Howe dropping PWS?

ETA: Not that I care...

 

[usbp379]

Re: PWS MK114

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CCCCanuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DMack,

Any input/opinion on Paul Howe dropping PWS?

</div></div>

Here's what's on Howe's website:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for PWS, here is the long and short of it. I like to help companies get over the initial “hump” and succeed in the weapon world if they make a great product. I think that PWS does make a great rifle and would still recommend them if you are interested in gas piston weapons.

The problem I had was with the buffer tube and how to fix a design problem with it. There is a small rubber/plastic buffer that is glued in the back of the buffer tube and is not supposed to leave the buffer tube. I had one come out. I changed the tube with a new and improved design and it came out. Without it they said the weapon should not be fired due to excessive buffer travel.

I did not appreciate their initial response which was that I should not clean it a certain way. In my opinion, they should have fixed the problem. The company is made up of former soldiers and sometimes they forget where they came from and make poor business decisions instead of the right ones. I called them on it. They are now fixing the problem and it is time for me to move on. We had a simple business agreement and I have served them notice. </div></div>

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

I think I can speak with some authority on what happened...

First off, let me be clear. I completely, and UTTERLY RESPECT MSG(R) Paul Howe. I am HONORED to know him and to have communication with him.

Secondly, I am honored to be associated with PWS in any way, shape or form. What I am about to type here, in public forum, is not to be taken as anything but what it is.

I spoke in detail with Todd at PWS in regards to the Enhanced Buffer Tube. Here is what came to light.

PWS makes the vast majority of their products IN HOUSE, in their plant in Boise. Some stuff is farmed out, for manufacturing costs, etc... Case in point, the silicone "Dead Blow" buffer in the bottom of the Enhanced Buffer Tube. This was really one of the shining features that set the EBT from PWS apart from other Buffer Tube / Reciever Extensions in the industry.

UNKNOWN to the Staff at PWS... the company that produced this Silicone "Dead Blow" Buffer, that was affixed in the bottom of the EBT, changed the composition of the material, without consulting PWS about it. This, in MY OPINION, is highly UNSAT.
Where the problem came to be, was in the solvent used to clean the rifle. I’ve been running AR’s for the better part of 25 years now. In the day, we used brake cleaner, WAY before Gun Scrubber was invented. Nothing ever hurt our old Colts, and old habits die hard. Now, this causes an issue when using abrasive solvents if the "dead blow" buffer comes loose. If you have a 1/2 inch plug of silicone flopping around in your buffer tube, you will have stoppage. The buffer spring is not capable of running effectively, with foreign objects rolling around in the tube.

In the desert, or on the urban battlefield… I need to know that I can clean my weapon with anything I can get my hands on, because I depend on my rifle to save my life. This does not matter to the recreational shooter, or the 3 gun shooter. He or She can be picky. As a person who depends on my weapon at all times, I “should” be able to soak my rifle in diesel fuel if need be, without fear of silicone coming loose. This was the point I think that Mr. Howe was trying to make. The point, a very VALID point at that, was duly noted.

No one on earth will question Mr. Howe's decision. He ran into an issue with the silicone coming loose in his buffer tube, and caused his rifle to stop on him. He operates at a level that most mortal men can only dream of achieving. I know for one, that I emulate his mindset and focus when it comes to teaching classes. Mr. Howe found that this was simply too much of a variable for his rifles, and made the decision to go with another vendor.

I am not, nor will I ever be privy to the actual converstaion with Mr. Howe, and PWS... it's none of my business. However, I know that Mr. Howe will STILL say, that the Long Stroke Piston system of the MK series rifles does work, and works extremely well.

The PWS Operating system IS proven, and IS valid. The long stroke piston simply works. The "Dead Blow" buffer in the Enhanced Buffer Tube, is amazing, by design, but... with a change in the properties of the material, WITHOUT PWS knowing about it, was a raw deal. Can it come loose? Yes. PWS pulled the design, and is rectifying it.

Is the Dead Blow Buffer needed? No. Does (or did) it work? Yes. PWS has developed a GREAT reputation for Customer Service since their inception. In the end though, they are open to any sort of manufacturing set back, as any other manufacturer. I know for one, My MK114 that I have been writing about has NEVER had a single issue. In fact, NONE of my weapons that I have from PWS have problems. With the exception of my MK107 Diablo. I have one of the newer EBT's on my MK107, with the problem silicone. It is causing an INCREASE in my carrier speed, shooting suppressed... and PWS is aware of this issue.

So, I said all of that to say this...

The internet is full of opinions, and conjecture. I read Mr. Howe's newsletter, and I completely and totally understand his decision to work with the vendor that he chose. I, however, can not speak for him, nor for PWS. My limited knowledge is just that. Very limited. If you have any direct questions, I would urge you to send an email to CSAT, and Mr. Howe will steer you in the proper direction. Or, send an email in to PWS... they are very up front on the issue with the EBT, and are working non stop to fix this issue.

In closing... I will continue to run my MK107, MK110, MK114 and MK214 rifles, as hard and as dirty as I can run them. I will also continue to report as openly, and as unbiased as I can... it is a consumer's world.

I will not debate the whole "Piston vs. DI" dead horse. I run both. So, this is the last I will ever speak of the CSAT / PWS issue, for it is not my issue.

I hope this is taken as neutrally as it is meant.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Here is my advice to any PWS owners. Take a look at the buffer tube. If you are concerned, or if you WORK with this rifle, depend on this rifle with your life, or the lives of others... call PWS if you have any reservations at all.

In the end... there is a chance that the silicone in the buffer tube CAN come out. If this happens, your rifle can malfunction and stop. This is a fact. PWS is addressing this now.

This has nothing to do with the operating system of the rifle... those of you running the uppers on a MILSPEC lower, disregard. This is only in relation to the Enhanced Buffer Tube.

DMack Out.

 

[pnorris]

Re: PWS MK114

What is the proposed fix. I for one like to rid myself of any possible failures regardless of the intended use.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Ok, I have talked to both Todd and Stacey at PWS at different times, and was told the same thing. Out of 1000 buffer tubes shipped / installed since the Silicone was changed by the Silicone manufacturer, only THREE were reported to have failed.

Now, Todd agreed... three is WAY too many. Period. So, they will be bending over to make this right.

Not only does the new dead blow buffer have the chance of coming loose by using solvents and such, it also SPEEDS up the carrier. Here's the deal... the original dead blow design, LESSENED carrier speed by 20% and absorbed recoil greatly. This is very evident. I have older EBT's on my DI guns, and I can tell a difference with the EBT installed. The new silicone dead blow buffer actually ADDS 10% more carrier speed than a standard MILSPEC buffer / tube / spring WITHOUT the silicone buffer in the tube. This is unsat... and is the reason my MK107 is having issues with the suppressor on it. But, thousands have shipped, and no one is having issues. However, the issue is that it CAN come loose.

Here are the proposed actions:

Call PWS and do one of two things.

1. Get them to send you the "plug"... this replaces the silicone in the bottom of the EBT. You can't just remove the existing silicone from the tube, because this will cause Bolt Carrier Over Travel, due to there being .5" more room for the buffer / BCG to travel rearward. So, the "plug" has to be installed.

2. Have PWS send you the NEW buffer tube, that does not have the space, and has no plug or silicone in it. It is essentially, a MILSPEC tube, with all the features that make the EBT so special... no castle nut, two flush cups, fluting, drain holes, etc... but no fear of the silicone coming loose, and no 10% carrier speed increase.

3. Purchase a high quality MILSPEC buffer tube / castle nut, install on your lower receiver, and run the rifle.

So, there ya go. I for one, have two of the new PWS EBT's enroute... I will leave my original EBT on my MK114, and my MK214 and keep running them. I told Todd that I would TRY to make the MK114 fail. I plan on soaking the lower in our parts washer at work and continue to shoot the snot out of it. This is my long term test rifle, as you have all been reading about. So, if it fails, you will know. I will also let you all know what happens to MAKE it fail, if it does.

My MK110 and MK107 are going to be getting the new EBT's from PWS.

I still think the buffer tube is awesome, it has great features, but the silicone dead blow thing coming loose does cause some alarms.

On a lighter note... I put the extended rails on the MK114 and must say... TWO THUMBS UP!!!

More to follow...

DMack out.

 

[C1AY7ON]

Re: PWS MK114

Just wanted to add that the dead blow buffer material change only affected EBTs purchased after March 1, 2012, according to PWS. I own one from before this date and have had no issues...granted I have not used any kind of abrasive cleaner inside the buffer tube.

Here's mine rocking a PST 1-4 and Geissele SSA trigger. It has about 1200 flawless rounds through it to date. With the right ammo, this thing shoots lights out.

 

[jkazak]

Re: PWS MK114

Great thread guys - thank you. Back onto optics... Ive been using a new Weaver 1-5 and a Nightforce 2.5-10x24 on my Steyr AUG clones and I like both reasonably well. BUT neither really offer precision shot placement. Im looking hard at the Bushnell 1-6.5 because of the. 25 center dot. Im a REAL newbie to this stuff and my use will be for fun; hunting (as the cost of meat continues rising); and any potential predators (2-legged or 4-legged). I WANT to be able to hit the. 50-cent piece at 100-yards and I know the rifles are capable.... am I on the right track? DMACK are you still liking your SFP version?

Best.....

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

I am running the Bushnell Elite 1 - 6.5 with the BTR - 2 reticle on my 12.5 " GPI SAR - 15 and I love this optic. The SFP works so well... I have the FFP version on my PWS MK114 now. I also have a Vortex PST 1 - 4 and don't like it near as much. I've used the Bushnell Elite 1 - 6.5 from 5 yards out to 640 yards with ease... Awesome optic in SFP.

 

[wm.penn]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

Since you have the old and new EBTs, is there a difference in their overall length, or how does the new one dispense with the space for the silicone, as you mention in point 2? I bought an EBT 416 from Brownells last week and it has no silicone and no plug. I emailed PWS and they said they would send me a plug, but I'm not sure if I need one...? PWS asked if it looked flat inside and I said yes, maybe slightly concave, then they said they'd send the plug... Is there a foolproof method of determining whether I need a plug in my new EBT?

Thanks for your help!

 

[halowords]

Re: PWS MK114

Hey DMack, I'm considering foregoing the red dot/holographic thing and jumping straight to a 1-4x or a 1-6x. It'd be for a CQB/HD role, and mainly up to 300 yard target shooting. I'd like to use the 1x for quick sight acquiring and shooting w/ both eyes open, more or less like a red dot or the like, and just like the idea of the versatility of the 1-4 to 1-6x/1-6.5x-ish range, maybe try something like 3-gun or whatever's available to me just for fun and to get better at this. It will be my first optic so I'll try looking through some and getting a feel for what I like, what reticles float my boat, etc., so I'm just starting to really explore my options. Still, I'm wondering if there is anything you'd throw on the list of considerations?

-Cheers

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

ALLCON:

I spoke with Stacey at PWS in reference to the Enhanced Buffer Tubes... here's a link that he directed me to.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/documents/ebt_iden.pdf

More information can be found here:

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=40

PWS's customer service is the best out there... I wouldn't sweat the issue a bit. Just contact them, and they will make it right.

 

[wm.penn]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack, the first link is exactly what I needed. From the images on the PDF it's obvious that mine is the new updated version, so I don't need the plug. Much appreciated!

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Roger that... Glad that I could help.

 

[Gasitman]

Re: PWS MK114

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I did not go through the 8 pages. the piston looks very flimsy like it is connected with a solder point on the charging handle. Is this the case? I am only comparing it to the LWRC system that I have had in the past with the bolt not being connected to the piston.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

No. The piston is floating... Held on to the operating rod by a hardened, captured pin. The operating rod is bolted and staked to the bolt carrier where the traditional gas key would be.

There is nothing in the piston system to fail. No springs, nothing. I have covered this in great detail.

 

[3rdPin]

Re: PWS MK114

Hi all, new to this community. This has been a great thread to follow. I am normally an AK person up until about 6 months ago. A sales person turned me on to PWS and all of the AK characteristics included. Did some research and in searching the web looking for horror stories or anything negative I came fairly empty handed. I did find this thread however and it has answered many of my questions without asking. So... Thank you. I am finally 1 day away from my mk114 arriving. The question I had was regarding a fore grip. Has anyone here every used. Anything from "Gear Sector"? I have an afg2 waiting for it. Just wondering if someone has run any of their stuff?

Thanks

 

[wm.penn]

Re: PWS MK114

Finally got my MK114 upper and Elcan SpecterOS4x this week and took the new build to the range. Ran fantastic and showed excellent accuracy, I thought. This is going to be my coyote-calling gun, so I don't intend to shoot past about 250 yards and usually much less. I tested a variety of inexpensive ammo appropriate for its mission: Hornady 55gr SP, Prvi 55gr SP, Ultramax remanufactured 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, and Fiocchi 50gr V-Max. Of the 20+ 5-round groups I shot, the average seemed to be around 1.5" at 100 yards and was very consistent. The Fiocchi and Ultramax shot a little better than the others (and shot to the same POA), while the Hornady impressed me the least. The only group I measured was the one pictured with the Ultramax... just under an inch. The Elcan is razor sharp and allows surprisingly precise aim with the chevron unlit. The MK114 had no failures other than three times it didn't lock open on an empty mag. I was running 20-rd pmags, a few of them plugged to 5 rounds to make them legal for hunting in AZ. Trigger is a Geissele SSA-E, which was fantastic. The temperature was about 100 degrees in the shade and the best group was one of the last, so the non free-floated barrel appears to do just fine when hot. The brake throws hot gasses and perhaps some unburned powder at a slightly rearward angle, so anyone next to the shooter should stay back a little. Felt somewhat similar to the cylinder-gap blast from a magnum revolver. Overall I'm extremely happy with it.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Very nice rifle...

I had not shot anything that light... for accuracy. I get amazing accuracy out of 69 grain SMK's and 77 grain SMK's... the Black Hills 77 grain OTM is what my MK114 loves. In fact, all of my PWS MK1 rifles LOVE the 77 OTM.

That rifle will last you a lifetime. I still can not break mine. I've stopped trying.

Cheers!

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: PWS MK114

Sent an email on the buffers for my two weapons...received them 72hrs later. Great CS and great folks in Boise, ID.

 

[wm.penn]

Re: PWS MK114

Thanks, DMack. I'll have to give those bullets a try sometime to see what this little rifle can do.

 

[Smoky43]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack,
Appreciate your unbiased evaluation of PWS rifles. I have followed your forum for several months now as I plan to buy my first AR. I am retiring after 20 years in the Air Force and want this to be my retirement gift to myself. I don't know if I can satisfy the itch now that I have it and stop at one, but I want the first rifle to be the best that I can afford and could use your help evaluating my options.

Since you are very familiar with PWS rifles and muzzle devices, I hope you can help clarify some things for me as I decide which rifle and upgrades to go with.

1. I have heard that the FSC556 and SM are both great at reducing recoil but the concussion, noise, and side blast is a significant negative. What are your thoughts on the pros vs. cons of the 556s devices?

2. You prefer the Triad over the the other two. What influences that? Is there a noticeable difference in the recoil between them?

3. I have considered the 300 BLK and have liked what I have read about it. If this were to be my one and only AR, it offers great flexibility in use (range gun, hunting, home defense) I haven't done a shelf check on ammo prices but have seen comparisons on the internet and that seems to be the biggest detractor for the 300 BLK over a 5.56 (as well as availability). I don't want cost to stop me from enjoying the rifle but I also don't see me putting thousands of rounds through it each year. Your thoughts on a 300 BLK over 5.56?

4. Any noticeable difference in recoil, noise, or accuracy between the MK114 vs. the MK116? Assuming all factors were the same except barrel length.

5. The itch has gotten worse when I consider adding a suppressor someday. Any factors to consider between MK114 and the 116 and muzzle choices?

It makes me feel better to know you aren't a paid celebrity endorser for PWS, but they certainly owe you for sharing your experience and opinion on their products. Thanks!

 

[Hubolds]

Re: PWS MK114

Dmack,
First post here. Thanks for your education on this rifle which I'm very interested in.

Earlier posts you said you were impressed with the Vortex, and now you say you like the Bushnell way much more. You like it to the tune of $1000 more? Is there anything about the Vortex you don't like for general use? Thanks in advance.

 

[cjwaymire]

Re: PWS MK114

Thanks for all the great info on the MK114. Really helped me make my decision to order one. Should be here early next week and I can't wait to get some range time in with it.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

All...

I am TDY training, but will speak to your questions very soon. Thank you for your words... I really try to tell it like it is, no holds barred.

I will try to respond in detail tomorrow.

Look for me on Facebook... I am running the page "Ranger Proof".

Cheers.

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Smoky43,

Let me dive into your questions point by point. Fist of all, I'm glad to hear that you chose the PWS rifle. I can tell you, I am a huge fan of their products... not because I get kickbacks from them, or they treat me well, they treat EVERYONE well. I just use their rifles hard, VERY hard, and they continue to perform for me. I am a full time Law Enforcement Trainer, and my main venue is SWAT. I have to guide / advise the Team Members in clear conscience, so that is the approach that I take when choosing gear. I started up a blog to cover some of the gear that I beat up, and will be covering more down the road.

Lowlight has been awesome, lettinig me write about the PWS stuff here on this site. I will forever be grateful to him for that.

Now, on to your questions:

The FSC5556 and the SM556 are essentially the same muzzle device. PWS spec'd the SM556 to work with a suppressor QD mount. The FSC556 has the same ports and flash hider properties, just does not have the same provisions for the locking ring of the suppressor. That is the only difference. These are a "Hybrid" style muzzle device. They work like a true brake, but also have flash hiding properties. Some states do not allow flash hiders, or "flash suppressors" on their rifles, for whatever reason. So, PWS designed this to be ATF compliant as a "Compensator" yet still tame the flash. They do produce side gas, and recoil compensation. The PWS MK1 Series rifles, with the SM556 or FSC556 along with the long stroke piston, is the flattest shooting rifle I have used. Very soft recoil. As far as I am concerned, the FSC556 is the best comp on the market, bar none.

2. However, since my training venue is SWAT, and I do most of my carbine work in close proximity to other shooters, I choose to spec my rifles with the TRIAD. Don't get me wrong... I love the FSC556, and on my "personal" rifle, there is one installed. My work rifles though, all are fitted with the TRIAD. This is a genious piece of kit. It is DEFINITELY a flash hider / flash suppressor... but the timing of the tines or "vanes" direct gas to the upward, to the 1 O'Clock position, which does help control muzzle climb in select fire mode. I have run the MK110 fully auto, and can control this rifle very well. The CQB device on the Diablo, is also a genious piece of kit. This directs all gas FORWARD, and does a GREAT job of reducing the flame thrower effect of an extreme SBR like the Diablo.

3. I am up to my eyeballs in 300 BLK load testing, barrel length testing, suppressor testing and such. I must say, I really like this round. However, it would NOT be my "only" rifle. The 5.56 has been around and proven itself effective in a variety of venues. Generally speaking, the drawbacks of the cartridge is the way the cartridge is loaded. I mean by this, the type of bullet used, velocity, and intended use. There are some amazing loads out there for this caliber, and I find that I can do just about anything I want to do with the 5.56 and the right ammo. I have used it in combat, and on the streets... I've also used it in the woods. Don't hesitate to choose the 5.56 cartridge as personal defence, or light hunting. The Black Hills 77 grain OTM flies so beautifully out of ALL of my PWS rifles... and has amazing live tissue effect. Let's just say, hogs fear it. So, MY advice, and take this with a grain of salt... go with the 5.56, and then later, buy a 300 BLK upper. By then, cartridge choices will be more plentiful, and the round will be established. I will be doing an extensive write up on my blog soon in regards to the 300 BLK and what we are doing with it.

4. There is entirely zero difference between the MK114 and the MK116 other than barrel length. Shooting the two, you will never be able to tell. The MK114 is a wee bit shorter overall, since it has a shorter barrel to start with. You have to understand, that the muzzle device is permanently attached (Pinned) as it leaves the factory, unless you do a NFA stamp for it. This keeps it out of SBR territory, and you don't need a stamp with the MK114 with the pinned muzzle device. The MK116 is a wee bit longer overall, but the muzzle device can be removed for a thread on suppressor if you wish. PWS now makes extended rails, so you can get more "real estate" on the MK114 / MK116 to move your back up sights out further (longer sight radius) and allow you to stretch out on the rifle more... (a la Magpul Dynamics grip). So, if you are not planning on removing the muzzle device, I would go for the MK114. It is my go to rifle. It's accurate out to 600 yards, its short enough to get in and out of tight spaces with, and still retain velocicity needed to get the job done. However, you will gain a wee bit more velocity with the MK116, and have the ability to use a thread on can down the road.

5. Suppressors... I covered the difference in the MK114 vs MK116 above... but let me say this. If you go with a MK116, do yourself a HUGE favor. Give Byron Peterson a call. He is the owner of Delta P Design... I have come to really love his suppressors. They are a little bit outside the norm, as in regards to the way they look, but they are amazing cans. Plus, just talking to him... he really gets it. I have learned SO much just from interracting with him, and I am much more educated on the subject now. I would LOVE a PWS MK116 with the Breves Compact 5.56 suppressor on it. This would be an amazing all around, do everything combination.

AS for working for PWS... I have a fond attachment to the company, no doubt. That is, in part... my relationship with Stacey Nagy and Todd Tuttle. To me, they ARE PWS.

Well, that... and the fact that they build friggn AWESOME rifles!!!!

Hope this helps you. Please feel free to look me up on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/RangerProof

DMack out

 

[DMack]

Re: PWS MK114

Hubolds,

Give me a little time, and I will address the Vortex PST vs Bushnell Elite 1-6.5

I'm juggling some MUCH needed free time, and needing to decompress.

Your question is extremely important to me, and I will get back to you.

Be safe out there everyone...

DMack out.

 

[Smoky43]

Re: PWS MK114

DMack,

Appreciate the thorough response to several questions. I still can't make my mind up between MK114 and 116. And before anyone out there suggest it, I can't afford to buy both right now! If I bought both, my wife would have me snuggling them at night for a long time. It is a sexy rifle...

The strong point of the 114 is the shorter length which people out there seem to really love with the AR. I keep coming back to the 116 because I like the idea of easily slapping the triad or a quality suppressor on it.

Thanks for the feedback on the 300 BLK. You aren't alone in your recommendation. Just about every forum out there has the same consensus from folks who have been shooting for a while. I will wait on it.

Maybe the smart thing is to buy the MK114 now and grab that MK116 300 BLK upper later down the road.

Definitely dropping the Geissele SSA trigger in the rifle and thinking about the extended rails. Does anyone know if the prices for the upgrades on the PWS website are the same if you ordered with the rifle vs. after purchase upgrades? Curious if they price comes down since you aren't keeping the stock stuff.

To everyone who has contributed to this forum, thanks for your perspective and photos. Keep em coming for those of us searching for the best AR platform!

 

[B7Anderson]

Re: PWS MK114

Smoky43,

If you want to play "musical" muzzle devices, then buy the 116; if not, then buy the 114. If you don't care either way, then buy the first one that's available. It doesn't make that much difference, either will serve you well! I bought a used 116 and love it - sold all of my other 5.56 rifles and bought a 216 because I wanted the same thing in 7.62 also. I only wish I had 'discovered' PWS carbines earlier. Every time I shoot either one, I like them even more. Just my two cents; hope this helps...

DD7

 

[cjwaymire]

Re: PWS MK114

Finally got a chance to get out to the range with my new MK114. First impression is that it is a great shooter with a recoil impulse that really makes it easy to shoot and shoot well. I also have a POF 415 w/ a 16.5" barrel. The recoil from my POF Is definitely a little more harsh. I put about 100 rounds of PMC XTac ammo through it and there was not one FTF or FTL. Worked like a charm.
Needless to say, I'm very pleased with my new PWS and am looking forward to learning more about it and shooting it safely and well.
Thanks for all the great posts DMack. Definitely swayed me toward PWS.

 

[Ranger Back]

Re: PWS MK114

Been searching for a reliable, rugged, piston kit for a while now. I'm now sold on the PWS, will be looking to find one this weekend. Hoping I am as pleased as everyone else seems to be.

Thanks out to DMack, as it is your posts on your experience with PWS that has convinced me to give this weapon a go around.