PWS T3 Match Ammo Test

[junger]

I got my hands on some decent match grade ammo for testing along with some subsonic. Will be testing on two PWS T3 rifles with similar set ups.

Rifle One is set in a Boyds Tacticool stock with round count around 1,000. Rifle Two is set in a Hogue Stock with round count of 300 or so. Both rifles have the same optic and rings combination, SWFA SS 3-9x42mm in Vortex Precision Matched Low Rings resulting in 1.8" HOB. Both rifles have Harris bipods and will be shot using rear bags from a 50 yard bench.

I'm heading to the range tomorrow and plan to clean both rifles, and refoul/warm them each up with 25 rounds of CCI standard velocity zeroing for that load. I will then bore snake a rifle once and shoot 10 shot groups through a chronograph of each ammo type. I'm thinking i'll run a dry bore snake one time before switching ammo types and alternate rifles so the bores have a few minutes to cool some between groups.

I will post pictures of the targets with the muzzle velocity results and environmental conditions as soon as I can.

Rifle One (rear), Rifle Two (front)



Ammo



CCI Standard Velocity 40gr

Wolf Extra Match 40gr
SK Standard Plus 40gr
RWS Target Rifle 40gr
PMC Match Rifle 40gr
Federal Gold Medal Target 40gr

CCI QUIET-22 40gr LRN
Fiocchi Performance 38gr Sub Sonic HP
CCI SUB-SONIC 22 LR HP 40gr (not pictured above)

 

[Wahoo95]

Looking forward to the results! Mine is a laser with Wolf, CCI Blazer, and Fiocchi High Velocity.

 

[junger]

Results

RESULTS

Wind Speed was only periodically measured throughout the day. Direction varied. Mostly from either 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock. Most of the morning it was only 2-3 mph. During some of the latter groups it picked up to 4-5 mph and hit as high as 6 mph a couple of times.


THE PRINT GRID SQUARES ON THESE TARGETS ARE 1 INCH. DISTANCE ON ALL TARGETS WAS 50 YARDS. SHOT FROM BENCH WITH BIPODS LOADED AGAINST A FRONT EDGE STOP BOARD FIXED TO THE BENCH WHILE USING A REAR BAG FOR SUPPORT.


CCI STANDARD VELOCITY





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2




WOLF EXTRA MATCH





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2

 

[junger]

SK STANDARD PLUS





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2



RWS TARGET RIFLE





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2

 

[junger]

PMC MATCH RIFLE





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2 - THIS SMALLER DIAMOND HAD TO USED BECAUSE WIND BLEW THE OTHER TARGET SHEET OFF OF MY STAND



FEDERAL GOLD MEDAL





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2

 

[junger]

CCI QUIET-22





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2



FIOCCHI PERFORMANCE 38 GR SUB HP





RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2

 

[junger]

CCI SUB-SONIC 22 LR HP

No picture of this box as I returned the balance of the box back to the owner of Rifle 2 along with his rifle before I took these photos



RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2




FINAL GROUPS - CCI STANDARD VELOCITY

RIFLE 1


RIFLE 2

 

[junger]

DATA SUMMARY

AMMO NAME / ORIGIN / BULLET WEIGHT & TYPE / LISTED VELOCITY
RIFLE TIME / TEMP / %RH / PRESS HIGH / LOW / AVERAGE / EXTREME SPREAD / STANDARD DEVIATION

CCI STANDARD VELOCITY / USA / 40GR LEAD ROUND NOSE / 1070
R1 0903 / 74.6 / 83.4% / 30.56 1112 / 1039 / 1071 / 73 / 19
R2 0909 / 74.4 / 84.2% / 30.55 1095 / 1028 / 1060 / 67 / 18

WOLF EXTRA MATCH / GERMANY / 40GR SOLID / NOT LISTED
R1 0921 / 75.0 / 83.1% / 30.55 1120 / 1085 / 1096 / 35 / 09
R2 0928 / 75.3 / 84.1% / 30.56 1117 / 1083 / 1095 / 34 / 10

SK STANDARD PLUS / GERMANY / 2.59g(40GR) / 325 METERS PER SECOND (1066 FPS)
R1 0948 / 77.1 / 81.3% / 30.56 1076 / 1032 / 1056 / 44 / 12
R2 0958 / 78.4 / 79.5% / 30.56 1073 / 1020 / 1049 / 53 / 15

RWS TARGET MATCH / GERMANY / 40GR LEAD BULLET SOLID / NOT LISTED
R1 1018 / 80.2 / 77.5% / 30.56 1078 / 1026 / 1054 / 52 / 15
R2 1023 / 80.2 / 77.6% / 30.56 1064 / 1015 / 1045 / 49 / 17

PMC MATCH RIFLE / MEXICO / 40GR SOLID / NOT LISTED
R1 1050 / 80.6 / 76.9% / 30.55 1101 / 1054 / 1073 / 47 / 15
R2 1055 / 82.0 / 74.9% / 30.55 1119 / 1053 / 1076 / 66 / 23

FEDERAL GOLD MEDAL / USA / 40GR SOLID / 1200
R1 1115 / 81.6 / 75.9% / 30.55 1263 / 1175 / 1206 / 88 / 29
R2 1121 / 82.5 / 73.9% / 30.55 1221 / 1156 / 1194 / 65 / 20

CCI QUIET-22 22LR / USA / 40GR LEAD ROUND NOSE / 710
R1 1146 / 84.3 / 71.8% / 30.54 0778 / 0726 / 0750 / 52 / 14
R2 1152 / 85.4 / 69.4% / 30.54 0772 / 0734 / 0751 / 38 / 10

FIOCCHI PERFORMANCE 38GR SUB SONIC HP / MEXICO / 38GR HOLLOW POINT / NOT LISTED
R1 1230 / 85.6 / 68.2% / 30.53 1124 / 1076 / 1099 / 48 / 13
R2 1236 / 87.0 / 66.6% / 30.53 1123 / 1076 / 1095 / 47 / 14

CCI SUB-SONIC 22 LR HP / USA / 40GR HOLLOW POINT / 1050
R1 1254 / 87.6 / 65.0% / 30.53 1060 / 1031 / 1049 / 29 / 09
R2 1258 / 87.9 / 65.6% / 30.53 1086 / 1034 / 1062 / 52 / 18

 

[junger]

COMMENTS

Rifle 1 in the Boyd's Tacticool stock (700 rounds prior to today) is my personal rifle. Rifle 2 in the Hogue stock (300 rounds prior) belongs to my brother. I was the shooter for all of the testing. My goal here was to see what my rifle (#1) would do with better ammo than CCI Standard Velocity. Prior to today, that was the only ammo I had fired through it. CCI SV served me very well in the rifle that I traded to get the T3, a Savage Mk II BSEV that was sub-MOA with it. Over the last few months since i have owned the T3, I was beginning to think it might might not prefer the CCI SV because it wasn't grouping as well as I would have liked. I figured that was mostly due to the shorter 16" barrel vs the 21" I had had with the Savage.

Obviously per the above groups, there may be some gremlins in my rifle (#1). Thankfully (and regrettably), I think I can account for them as operator induced via the way I have it set-up and my cleaning method. Whenever removing the action from the stock to break it down, I have been pushing the action the wrong direction when tightening the stock screw to eliminate the slight play between the action and stock. I've been pushing my action forward like one would do with an optic on the top rail and it's been pointed out to me that it's the opposite for actions in the stock and I should be pushing it to the rear. As for cleaning, I have only used a bore snake to clean the bore every other trip to the range so, usually after 200-ish rounds. my bore is probably long over due for a thorough cleaning with a proper rod and brushes. I plan to resolve both of those possible issues and shoot it and again before I consider switching to a different stock or taking it to a smith to see if they can make it fit better in the Boyd's. I did not think at the time to swap the stocks out with the #2 rifle and try that until I was already on the way home. I much prefer the Boyd's over the Hogue in terms of comfort particularly in the grip area. The eye relief on the #2 scope wasn't quite right for me either and I had a hard time staying consistent with my check weld. That said, it is setup for a different person. That I consistently shot the #2 rifle better my own #1 reinforces that there is something going with mine. I'll follow-up here once i figure out what it was.

I was surprised to find that this more expensive ammo did not shoot significantly better than CCI SV. Particularly, the Wolf which cost more than double the price of most of the others. The price I paid for the 50 round box was $14.00. I expected that first group of Wolf on Rifle 1 to be the best group of the day but, even while firing just a few rounds into it, it was apparent that it was going to turn out to be a horrendous steamer. I know that got in my head a little bit and probably made my shooting worse for that group and the one on #2. After that, I tried as much as possible not to look at the groups at all to avoid that. As i progressed through the groups though, i could not help but notice that the signs were pointing to some unknown drama with my rifle (#1). To what degree that may have mentally had on the rest of my shooting I'm not certain. While no expert, I do consider myself a better than average shooter, especially on rimfire with bipods & rear bags. I guess what i'm getting at is this was not my best day on the range and certainly not my best work. Anyone reading this and weighing any of this testing in any purchase decisions should consider that.

The most valuable info here, is really the chronograph results. We got good reads on every round fired. That, you may rely on for any decisions you may make.

There was only one malfunction: We thought the chrono missed a read or that I may have missed counted and shorted the rounds loaded in the mag by one for the second group of SK Standard Plus. However, after checking the box finding the right amount missing from it, I found the missing round on the ground. It was a light strike that I ejected without realizing did not fire. That round was discarded and an eleventh round was loaded and fired to give us a full ten shot group.

We used 6 new Ruger factory BX-1 magazines.

I will follow up again with updates on my rifle's problems. I'd also like the repeat this test again later in the fall when I get my suppressor (SilencecCo Sparrow) and the weather is better so that North Carolina will quit trying to be Botswana.

A few things I will change next time:
- Pick a better (calmer) day for wind
- shoot five 3 shot groups or two 5 shots groups to help reveal inconsistencies in my shooting and/or to make measuring the groups visibly more clear.
- I really should have swapped those stocks and at least shot some more CCI SV to see what would have happened there.
- I need to go to my range on a day when it's members only (no public or guests). I think I rushed things to try to time swapping my targets with every time our firing line went cold. Also every Vasily Zaytsev-wannabe within 5 counties was out there with their Mosins today. That, and I got a lot of 5.56 brass thrown on my bench.
- I need to take more time with each group and focus on marksmanship fundamentals better.



I hope y'all find some useful info out this. Despite the dramas, it was great day spent on the range with my father spotting for me and taking all the notes off the chrono and the Kestrel. Many thanks, Dad.

- Junger

 

[Donr13]

Damn that's a lot of data

 

[Rolltide]

That's a great write up.

Thanks for spending the time to do it.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Junger,

Well done mate! That was one of the best range reports that I have seen ever posted on the SH site. Thank you for the wealth of information and for taking the considerable time to document and share it here.

"every Vasily Zaytsev-wannabe within 5 counties was out there with their Mosins today" I loved that quote. I was at my range one day on the weekend last spring and there was a fellow beside me shooting his Mosin-Nagant. Every time he sent a round down range, it would shake my sight picture on the bench next door. We have all had 5.56 brass rained down on us and yes it does affect our performance. Probably more important is to choose a calm day with little or no wind. Still, Kudos to you for a job well done. My only suggestions are to shoot 5 shot groups since that is a benchmark that most of us can relate to. And, do not forget that every rifle is different. Seeming identical rifles will still each prefer different ammo. It is crazy but true. So, before you get too worked up about yours, just try some different brands to feed it. Choose good quality ammo (I know we have to choose what we can find these days). I have found that Lapua Center-X, Wolf Match Extra, Wolf Match, Eley 10x and Eley Black to be the best in my rifles with Eley Edge and RWS R50 coming in next. Nothing from Federal, Remington, Winchester or CCI was close to them except for a box of Federal Ultra Match that I had and it is unobtainable now. If you need help sourcing Eley or Lapua PM me and I will get you the contact data of a suppler. Lapua goes for just over $10/box and Eley Black for $14.70 and 10x for $17.70. Not cheap but it can make a difference, sometimes.

I know that everything is relative and so, please do not take this wrong, it is not me being critical. It is more a statement of fact. Bench accuracy (or any marksmanship) is a game of variables. The more you can minimize or eliminate the better. As you succeed in controlling some of the variables, others will then begin to dominate the results. The scope is a much bigger variable when shooting from the bench than it is when hunting IMHO. Once you have a super stable rest, the ability to see the center of the tgt and precisely aim at it the same way every shot, becomes a big factor in the results. I have a old Win mod 52 that shoots about 0.300-0.500" 5-shot groups from the bench using a 24x scope. It is a 8-24x variable. If I dialed it down to 9x, I think (have not tested this) I would be hard pressed to get it to shoot under 1". Now it is just as accurate at any scope setting, it is just not possible for me to aim it as well at the lower setting. I do often shoot it at 8x or 10x at long range tgts and it does quite well but lobbing rounds in on rocks and clay birds is not the same as shooting groups. Just a thought. I guess, my long winded point is that there are a number of very tight shooting rifles that get tgts posted on here and most of them are not using 3-9x scopes. So, don't compare your rifles accuracy to those that are using high power bench rest scopes or ultra-grade variables. It is not a fair comparison.

Lastly, the cleaning of the bore is far more of a factor than most realize when attempting to get great accuracy. With 22's is may be more of a factor and again, it only shows up when the other large variables are optimized. From what I think I know, the PWS T3 is not easy to open up to use cleaning rods from the breech end. Using them from the muzzle is a No-No. So, getting it done right can be a bitch. Plus once cleaned a 22lr bore will not shoot its best until it is seasoned again with 10-25 rds of whatever ammo you are using. If a group is interrupted in mid session, say to allow others to replace tgts, then rifle will usually shoot high and right for the first and sometimes 2nd and 3rd shot from a cold bore. These variables will only show up when you are getting things pretty tight but they are always a factor and do not go away. Every rifle is different so your results may vary. Good work and keep it up.

Irish

 

[Wahoo95]

Junger, what part of NC are you located? I'm in Charlotte and maybe we can do some testing together on our T3's.

 

[junger]

Raleigh area. I shoot at Frontline Defense in Warrenton.

 

[Wahoo95]

OK, I'm up that way often for work so I'll have to look you up at some point so we can hit the range together

 

[DW44VH]

Thanks for the write up, I'm curious if anyone with a T3 has given installation of the KIDD rear tang and bedding any thought? My T3 has had some mechanical issues that required repair by PWS, a lengthy process since I'm in Canada. As a result I haven't been able to do the ammo testing I planned for this year. I have a 20" KIDD barrel, and I just cant shake the feeling that this rifles accuracy potential can't be unlocked until its more securely bedded.

 

[junger]

Sounds good, Wahoo. Shoot me a PM the next time you're headed this way.

I agree with DW44H about the bedding which led me researching better stocks where I found the Titan 1022 stock with aluminum bedding that Victor Company is currently taking pre-orders on.

http://www.victorcompanyusa.com/titan-1022.html

I emailed them regarding compatibility with the T3 and received this response from from Michael Victor:

"The Titan’s we have in stock right now will not fit the T3- but we will be doing a mold modification next month which should make the future Titan’s compatible."

I am strongly considering trying one of these once the T3 compatible ones rollout.

 

[Wahoo95]

What's different about their mold/stock making it incompatible?

I just ordered a flange pillar kit to install in hopes of helping with bedding.

 

[DW44VH]

This is the direction I want to go as far as locking the receiver down. I'd like to switch to the Bell and Carlson Odyssey, seems like a better BR stock.
KIDD REAR TANG INSTALL-Pic Heavy - RimfireCentral.com Forums

 

[junger]

Follow Up:

So, I think I fixed the issues on my rifle. Looks like it really makes a difference when you mount the action into the rear of the stock like you're supposed to. grrrrr.

Here's a 5 shot group of CCI SV at 50 yds, bench, bipod, rear bag. The one flyer was a called bad shot. The printed squares are 1"

 

[SScott]

Junger,
Great range report, and thanks for sharing.
I am in the hunt for an accurate .22 and this is one of the rifles I'm considering.
Scott

 

[littlepod]

I just picked up the PWS T3 complete rifle with the t-rex stock. I only have a 1x red dot on it with a 3.5-10x40 weaver scope coming in the mail next week. With the red dot at 25 yards I was able to put in 1 inch groups, but that's only 25 yards.. The trigger is great and the action was smooth. My range only has 25, 100, and 200, so I'll give a try out at the 100 next week.

If I had to do it again, I think I would have swapped over to something like the Titan 10/22 stock so I could attach a bipod - though with the wood stock, it's a great hold and shoot as the rifle with the red dot is < 6 lbs total.