Q Erector 22 on a precision rifle (actual experience please)

[jbell]

To start off with I have never been nor am I currently an advocate of threading the muzzle and using a suppressor on a precision 22lr when trying to squeeze the last little bit of accuracy out of the rifle. However I am in the process of building another precision rifle host for a particular purpose where about any quality rimfire suppressor will be quite enough, but I like the idea of a variable volume suppressor so I can control the length, sound attenuation, and possibly even use as a tuner.

I would appreciate any first hand feedback you have about the Erector on a precision rifle: did you see a noticeable POI shift, accuracy degradation, and have you directly compared the Q to other options?

Also are there any other / better variable volume rimfire options worth looking at?

 

[68hoyt]

Following ,
The silencerco switchback ?
Can you order extra segments with the Q to make it longer if wanted ?
I have discussed and thought about this off and on wondering about tuning with a suppressor
I have thought about a 556 or 30 cal can like the banish take downs the 30 cal for the larger bore to reduce turbulence , idk , just pondering

 

[jbell]

Following ,
The silencerco switchback ?
Can you order extra segments with the Q to make it longer if wanted ?
I have discussed and thought about this off and on wondering about tuning with a suppressor
I have thought about a 556 or 30 cal can like the banish take downs the 30 cal for the larger bore to reduce turbulence , idk , just pondering

Kinda where I am at.

 

[FuhQ]

To start off with I have never been nor am I currently an advocate of threading the muzzle and using a suppressor on a precision 22lr when trying to squeeze the last little bit of accuracy out of the rifle. However I am in the process of building another precision rifle host for a particular purpose where about any quality rimfire suppressor will be quite enough, but I like the idea of a variable volume suppressor so I can control the length, sound attenuation, and possibly even use as a tuner.

I would appreciate any first hand feedback you have about the Erector on a precision rifle: did you see a noticeable POI shift, accuracy degradation, and have you directly compared the Q to other options?

Also are there any other / better variable volume rimfire options worth looking at?

Just get a Mask HD and call it good. It's a precision rimfire can. It has a concentric baffle design. My rifles and pistols are extremely accurate with it installed. I have noticed no impact on groupings with and without the can. Of course, the extra weight and length will slightly shift your POI, but if you always shoot it suppressed, that makes no difference. I always shoot everything I can suppressed, and sight them in with the suppressors attached, so POI shift means nothing to me.

Also, I honestly wouldn't buy anything Q, but that's just me. Kevin's a douche and his products aren't that great. Just my personal opinion.

 

[AZ Dan]

Suppressors affecting groups is going to vary so much from rifle to rifle, even the same model rifle, it's just impossible to predict any single variations your rifle will experience. Yes, you will see a POI shift due to barrel harmonics being effected, but I think trying to use a suppressor to change this by adding/removing baffle stacks is a fool's errand.

Will adding a suppressor make your rifle more accurate? It's a coin toss. If your rifle is not currently threaded, I certainly would not have it threaded in hopes of increasing accuracy...too many ways for that process to go wrong, especially if the rifle is already producing excellent groups. If the rifle was factory threaded, adding a suppressor to test is worth it, but really just purely for sound attenuation.

If there are 10 ways to attempt to increase accuracy, adding a suppressor would not make they list, IMO.

 

[jbell]

Just get a Mask HD and call it good. It's a precision rimfire can. It has a concentric baffle design. My rifles and pistols are extremely accurate with it installed. I have noticed no impact on groupings with and without the can. Of course, the extra weight and length will slightly shift your POI, but if you always shoot it suppressed, that makes no difference. I always shoot everything I can suppressed, and sight them in with the suppressors attached, so POI shift means nothing to me.

Also, I honestly wouldn't buy anything Q, but that's just me. Kevin's a douche and his products aren't that great. Just my personal opinion.

Thank you, and I agree about KB… but that is without having ever met the man so…

 

[jbell]

Suppressors affecting groups is going to vary so much from rifle to rifle, even the same model rifle, it's just impossible to predict any single variations your rifle will experience. Yes, you will see a POI shift due to barrel harmonics being effected, but I think trying to use a suppressor to change this by adding/removing baffle stacks is a fool's errand.

Will adding a suppressor make your rifle more accurate? It's a coin toss. If your rifle is not currently threaded, I certainly would not have it threaded in hopes of increasing accuracy...too many ways for that process to go wrong, especially if the rifle is already producing excellent groups. If the rifle was factory threaded, adding a suppressor to test is worth it, but really just purely for sound attenuation.

If there are 10 ways to attempt to increase accuracy, adding a suppressor would not make they list, IMO.

Yes, thank you. I am tracking on all those points.

 

[SourMash]

@jbell I'm no scientologist but I'll see what happens. I have a Vudoo and I also have the Erector, but I've never paired them up. I have several of Q's cans and I like them all. I actually prefer the El Camino. It's easier to clean. If you're anywhere near eastern Atl, you're welcome to come see for yourself.

 

[68hoyt]

SourMash , yes let us know
Jbell , what about the JK solvent trap/suppressor ?

 

[jbell]

@jbell I'm no scientologist but I'll see what happens. I have a Vudoo and I also have the Erector, but I've never paired them up. I have several of Q's cans and I like them all. I actually prefer the El Camino. It's easier to clean. If you're anywhere near eastern Atl, you're welcome to come see for yourself.

Very cool & thank you for the offer! I grew up in north Georgia but unfortunately I have been in Maine for way too long. I look forward to hearing how it goes with the erector.

 

[jbell]

SourMash , yes let us know
Jbell , what about the JK solvent trap/suppressor ?

I haven’t seen that one, just looked at it briefly but I’ll dig deeper. Thank you

 

[FuhQ]

I haven’t seen that one, just looked at it briefly but I’ll dig deeper. Thank you

By the time you spend the money on a JK Armament, you'd be better off getting a real precision can from a big name company that puts out a true quality product. Just my opinion. I've heard a few shot at the range on various cartridges, but was not impressed. Personally, I feel like all those multi-piece stack modular cans are kind of gimmicky.

JK got started as a solvent trap company, so they aren't exactly high quality suppressors, but they were high-quality solvent traps. If that makes sense? They aren't particularly good at suppression compared to a (real) well-engineered can, but for what they are, they are ok. Basically, all they did was get an 07 FFL and start drilling holes in their solvent traps, and then charging premium prices for not-so premium products. Just my opinion having heard several of them in person at my local range.

 

[jbell]

By the time you spend the money on a JK Armament, you'd be better off getting a real precision can from a big name company that puts out a true quality product. Just my opinion. I've heard a few shot at the range on various cartridges, but was not impressed. Personally, I feel like all those multi-piece stack modular cans are kind of gimmicky.

JK got started as a solvent trap company, so they aren't exactly high quality suppressors, but they were high-quality solvent traps. If that makes sense? They aren't particularly good at suppression compared to a (real) well-engineered can, but for what they are, they are ok. Basically, all they did was get an 07 FFL and start drilling holes in their solvent traps, and then charging premium prices for not-so premium products. Just my opinion having heard several of them in person at my local range.

Exactly what I am looking for, thank you

 

[68hoyt]

Yes thanks

 

[Tortuga]

I have been in Maine for way too long.

Maybe see if you can get the Q folks to meet you at a local range with their wares and try for yourself. They are right across the bridge on RT1A (just before the Kittery Trading Post FOB) in Portsmouth. I got a beer tour of the place from one of the project managers a couple of years ago and found them pretty eager when it comes to testing hypotheses or just plain going out and shooting.

 

[flatland1]

jbell - I threaded every barrel that I did for my precision 22RF bolt rifles - right up to the point where I did some group comparisons with & w/o suppressor attached. I shot with a SWR Spectre II & TBAC 22TD, and got nominally the same larger group sizes with both. After that, both those cans have spent a whole lot more time in the safe than they have on my rifles. I didn't miss shooting suppressed that much, as all my barrels are at least 22" in length, and I shoot nothing but plain lead std vel match ammo in every one of the custom barreled rifles I own. But eventually, it got to bothering me that after jumping through the hoops to legally own these two suppressors, I wasn't getting any use out of them.

A friend offered to loan me his ATS 22RF tuner/adaptor, and using it on a V22 that I purchased as a bbl'd action direct from VGW with a 22" Bartlein Kukri bbl - with my 22TD - showed a real accuracy advantage after taking the time to tune. I eventually returned the ATS to my friend, and haven't bought one for myself to this point in time, even though it's obvious to me that it works as advertised. I've got a couple of Pro-X and two Harrells tuners on my most accurate 22RF rifles at this point, and don't want to mess around with any of them, as these rifles are quiet enough to suit my needs with the tuners attached. But if I were needing/wanting to shoot suppressed with any of the other V22s or custom barreled CZ457s, I'd seriously consider plunking down the $200 cost of a ATS tuner.

 

[jbell]

jbell - I threaded every barrel that I did for my precision 22RF bolt rifles - right up to the point where I did some group comparisons with & w/o suppressor attached. I shot with a SWR Spectre II & TBAC 22TD, and got nominally the same larger group sizes with both. After that, both those cans have spent a whole lot more time in the safe than they have on my rifles. I didn't miss shooting suppressed that much, as all my barrels are at least 22" in length, and I shoot nothing but plain lead std vel match ammo in every one of the custom barreled rifles I own. But eventually, it got to bothering me that after jumping through the hoops to legally own these two suppressors, I wasn't getting any use out of them.

A friend offered to loan me his ATS 22RF tuner/adaptor, and using it on a V22 that I purchased as a bbl'd action direct from VGW with a 22" Bartlein Kukri bbl - with my 22TD - showed a real accuracy advantage after taking the time to tune. I eventually returned the ATS to my friend, and haven't bought one for myself to this point in time, even though it's obvious to me that it works as advertised. I've got a couple of Pro-X and two Harrells tuners on my most accurate 22RF rifles at this point, and don't want to mess around with any of them, as these rifles are quiet enough to suit my needs with the tuners attached. But if I were needing/wanting to shoot suppressed with any of the other V22s or custom barreled CZ457s, I'd seriously consider plunking down the $200 cost of a ATS tuner.

I hear ya on the threading and suppressor negatives but I am looking to shoot while being less obvious about it, so…

I will check the ATS tuner out a bit more, I looked into them a while back.

Thank you

 

[SourMash]

@jbell

Ok, I shot a box of SK Standard plus this morning (that’s all I had time for). My elevation was a little off since I’ve been shooting Eley Tenex for a bit and forgot/couldn’t find my 100 yd dope for the SK. Again, I’m not as good of a shooter as the rest of y’all so forgive the sloppiness of my groups. The pictures should explain what’s going on and in the #2 I knew it was a bad shot when I pulled the trigger. If it matters, I shot them in numerical order of the pictures.

Andy

 

[SourMash]

I don't know why #2 didn't come through on the regular post. It shows as an attachment, let me know if you can't see it.

 

[Huskydriver]

Rugged occulus

 

[jbell]

Andy, great info. Thank you!

 

[SourMash]

Sorry I couldn’t shoot better or even a better box of ammo. Maybe next time I can have a little more time to play. This just gives a rough estimate of what we all know I guess.

 

[FimRire RongLifle]

were all the suppressed groups above shot without a magentospeed attached? Have you tried groups or grids with various configurations of the cones?
I like the idea of these but also wonder is the weight is too low to tune. Just happends my heavier can shoots the batch of ammo my rifle likes or I am insisting it will like then my lighter one, however neither are modular.

 

[Big_J]

I had both the erector and el camino out this weekend for testing and chronograph on a vudoo 22in mtu barrel and noticed almost no decernable group size difference at 50yds. If anything the groups where a hair tighter with the el Camino which could easily be dismissed as shooter error or the SD of the center-x. The only real repeatable change was POI. After swapping back and forth multiple times between the 2 cans and thread protector the erector was always 1 mil higher, and the el Camino was always half a mil high and half a mil right from my unsuppressed zero.

 

[huntnh]

Shot with a friend this weekend that had a erector the rifle shot well the sound suppression was great the loudest noise was the firing pin hitting the primer. I’m supposed to shoot with him again soon and I’ll try it on my gun to see if accuracy stays the same.

 

[SourMash]

@FimRire RongLifle correct, I did take the magneto off because I was being a little bitch and the humidity down here sucks balls and can go to hell, therefore it made me hurry up. I'll do better

 

[J-Hon]

Don't have an Erector to test with, but you might find this interesting:

Shot a lot of NRL 22 suppressed. Stopped for two reasons:

1. Junked two stages after carbon came loose in my suppressor, fell down the barrel (rifle was sitting muzzle up in a stand), and got trapped in the lug area of my vudoo. This actually caused problems closing the bolt, and took me a while to figure out WTF had happened.
2. Started running a tuner, and noticed that my tuner settings actually changed throughout the suppressor cleaning cycle. Basic correlation leads me to believe that this is caused by the build-up of lead in the suppressor, which can easily double in weight after some heavy practice sessions and a match, going from clean.

After that... I just couldn't trust it for real deal match day stuff. Ended up just going tuner + larger OD bloop tube (bloop tube directs the sound downrange, and looks cool). FWIW, I generally agree about (and have felt via lead slug) the difference threading a barrel on a 22 can make. In practice though, I get more than good enough accuracy from my 18" vudoo/Lapua combo to compete regionally in NRL22. If anything, I think the shorter barrel is a bigger limiting factor than I can perceive the threads making (longer barrels seem to help ES/SD, and balance better on props).

One thing to note about the erector - they aren't easy to clean (aluminum) and can get a little harder to come apart if you let them get carboned up. To me, that plays directly into my two above issues.

Still wish I would have bought your Sauer

 

[jbell]

Don't have an Erector to test with, but you might find this interesting:

Shot a lot of NRL 22 suppressed. Stopped for two reasons:

1. Junked two stages after carbon came loose in my suppressor, fell down the barrel (rifle was sitting muzzle up in a stand), and got trapped in the lug area of my vudoo. This actually caused problems closing the bolt, and took me a while to figure out WTF had happened.
2. Started running a tuner, and noticed that my tuner settings actually changed throughout the suppressor cleaning cycle. Basic correlation leads me to believe that this is caused by the build-up of lead in the suppressor, which can easily double in weight after some heavy practice sessions and a match, going from clean.

After that... I just couldn't trust it for real deal match day stuff. Ended up just going tuner + larger OD bloop tube (bloop tube directs the sound downrange, and looks cool). FWIW, I generally agree about (and have felt via lead slug) the difference threading a barrel on a 22 can make. In practice though, I get more than good enough accuracy from my 18" vudoo/Lapua combo to compete regionally in NRL22. If anything, I think the shorter barrel is a bigger limiting factor than I can perceive the threads making (longer barrels seem to help ES/SD, and balance better on props).

One thing to note about the erector - they aren't easy to clean (aluminum) and can get a little harder to come apart if you let them get carboned up. To me, that plays directly into my two above issues.

Still wish I would have bought your Sauer

Great observations, thank you.

I have always avoided for not using a suppressor on a rimfire due to the weight accumulation causing different harmonics and thus effecting accuracy. I have shot a lot of rimfire with bloop tubes and they really help but I'm trying to minimize sound signature in all directions.

Yeah I miss the Sauer, it was / is an amazing rifle.