Rifle Scopes Quality MIL FFP hunting options in the +/-1000$ range

[5RWill]

I've come back to this topic over and over again, if i had the time i would save a little and get an ATACR 4-16, as it fits the bill for the 6.5 SAUM i'm having built for my Dad. That said i wont and am going back to get my masters in hope of getting into Dental School. So i'm going to leave the scope up to him, with my recommendations of course.

So he likes relatively simple reticles, wouldn't mind a tree, but nothing extravagant.

So far the SHV and LRHS are all i can think of. Eyebox needs to relatively easy to get behind as well, idk if that disqualifies the LRHS 4.5-18x44 or not as i've not looked through one. Leupold's new offerings would fit the bill if it weren't for them being SFP/MOA only.

Am i missing something? Should i broaden the spectrum to Athlon maybe? I'm open to any recommendations.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

NF NXS 3.5-15 F1 if u can find one. I have one and love it. Should be in the 1500-1800 range though.

 

[dannySH]

Vortex PST GII 3-15x44 FFP is what I got for my hunting rig, the Athlon Ares 2.5-15x50 is another good option in your price range.

 

[cnk]

I'm going through the same decision process now for a new rifle and the Burris XTRII series is another one to consider.

 

[5RWill]

NF NXS 3.5-15 F1 if u can find one. I have one and love it. Should be in the 1500-1800 range though.

How does the NXS fair now a days? I haven't looked through one in years. The recent ATACR i saw was beautiful, but that's out of my reach at the moment. The NXS F1 does fit the bill though because the reticle is simple, it's FFP, 50mm objective (which he wants), and moderately light. Price is still steep considering how old it is, but i could find it probably at 1300ish on the hide or from friends i suspect.

Vortex PST GII 3-15x44 FFP is what I got for my hunting rig, the Athlon Ares 2.5-15x50 is another good option in your price range.

Any indication as how the glass is on gen IIs? Buddy of mine said only slightly better than the Gen I, which is pretty disappointing as i was hoping for Gen I razorish quality.

I'm going through the same decision process now for a new rifle and the Burris XTRII series is another one to consider.

I thought about it but there are just too many iffy reviews on the glass quality of it. Don't get me wrong i know i'm making compromises with the budget but quality glass can be had for 1000$. Maybe not the best but certainly usable. Not to say the XTRII is bad but it has too many contrasting reviews from the people i've talked too. Some say it's amazing the next just the opposite. I wish he was open to getting something like my SN-3 or an ATACR but it's out of the question.

 

[steve123]

The F1 is an under appreciated scope. I liked mine a lot except it had 50Y minimum parallax which at the time wasn't working out for me so I went to S&B. The glass and eyebox was fine in the F1 just the glass not up there with the highest end scopes. A friend kept his/G2MD and still hunts with it.

It'll be interesting to see how the Ares turns out. I have one on order.

What's your weight cap?

 

[5RWill]

The F1 is an under appreciated scope. I liked mine a lot except it had 50Y minimum parallax which at the time wasn't working out for me so I went to S&B. The glass and eyebox was fine in the F1 just the glass not up there with the highest end scopes. A friend kept his/G2MD and still hunts with it.

It'll be interesting to see how the Ares turns out. I have one on order.

What's your weight cap?

Trying to keep it 30oz and below. Aiming for 8-10lbs overall as i know he wont want anything overly heavy. We hunted together last year some and i let him use my 308 and he absolutely hated it because it was 16lbs.

Did some digging on the LRHS again, which at this point feels like i'm re-reading, but it seems like the best choice for the money. The glass is consistently compared to scopes in much higher price brackets and the consensus seems that it holds it's own. Vs the NXS it seems to be a wash according to most anyway. Less i could find the F1 for considerably cheaper than what it's retailing at.

Spec's for the rifle
Bighorn SR3
Bartlein #3b finished at 24"
Manners MCS-T Elite Tactical fill
APA RTG

 

[fdkay]

Have you considered the VX3-i LRP? The 4.5-14 seems to match your requirements.
It is a bit funky, as it only offers 5 mils per turn, but it does have a zero stop and it only weighs in around 20 ounces.

No illumination if that is important to you.
https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/117922/category/6896/

 

[dannySH]

Any indication as how the glass is on gen IIs? Buddy of mine said only slightly better than the Gen I, which is pretty disappointing as i was hoping for Gen I razorish quality.
.

I wrote it on other threads, the glass and turrets from the PST GII are superior to the PST GI by a long way.

 

[5RWill]

Have you considered the VX3-i LRP? The 4.5-14 seems to match your requirements.
It is a bit funky, as it only offers 5 mils per turn, but it does have a zero stop and it only weighs in around 20 ounces.

No illumination if that is important to you.
https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/117922/category/6896/

I hadn't. I thought that scope was a joke when i first saw it. I'm not sure what Leupold was thinking with that elevation knob, i still can't figure out why it's so freaking big. I was hoping their VX6HD lineup would offer MIL and FFP but it didn't.

At this point though i think he'll want illumination. He's 59, eyesight isn't getting any better but it's not terrible or anything. Just thinking along the lines of if he takes a shot below 10x in low light with an FFP optic i'd need illumination so he could see the reticle. This is also again where i think the LRHS has some serious merit with that circle to remedy the small reticle issue with FFP hunting optics. Same for the MIL-R as it's crosshair is surrounded by those large hash marks that i would think is pretty visible once lit.

I guess this is how i arrived at the LRHS, SHV, and NXS. There really just isn't much of a market for mil based hunting optics that are FFP. Least not oriented towards hunting, you can certainly take a mil based FFP optic and hunt with it.

 

[CharlieNC]

I've been shooting a Sightron SIII 6-24 ffp mil for several years. Turrets are dead on and without any problems. The optical quality is better than any other scopes I have looked through that cost over twice as much, which is especially important for hunting and low light conditions. Around $750.

 

[CBDR]

NXS 5.5 x 22 was my first optic that I crossed over the 1500 dollar mark and that was several years ago. When I first started going after white tail and hogs I thought it was the best, and it is pretty dam good. Not sure if they ever upgraded the lenses? Something to consider. My next scope I actually spent considerably less, ONE K for a Sawo Z3. with BDC reticle used for hunting. Will never part with either of these scopes.

 

[SENNY]

5rwill, has the old man ever shot with a ffp scope and can set one up properly? Been through this with old school guys. Its simple to us but most will want a vx6 to make them warm and fuzzy and comfortable unfortunately.

 

[5RWill]

5rwill, has the old man ever shot with a ffp scope and can set one up properly? Been through this with old school guys. Its simple to us but most will want a vx6 to make them warm and fuzzy and comfortable unfortunately.

I think he's shot my SN-3 and my ERS IIRC. The only thing he'd really have to setup is eye relief, parallax, and diopter. As far as setting the zero stop and everything else I'm going to do it for him. I load for him as it is now. The idea is he can go hunting. Range the game he's hunting. Look at the dope chart and take a shot.

another plus of the LRHS is those big numbers on the elevation dial too.

 

[jsthntn247]

5-20 SS has some mighty fine glass and dead nutz tracking. I'm considering the Athlon Aeres 4.5-27 for a similar build myself, and I would swap it back to my 223 trainer when hunting season was over. Don't thing the Bushnell your considering is a bad choice either, I just like more magnification.

 

[5RWill]

I don't having used an ERS and seen the Gen II ERS in person i'm a pretty big Bushnell fan. If it were up to me and my money i would invest to have top tier glass. I know him though and he isn't going to drop 2K on an optic. The more i read into the LRHS the more positives i find about the LRHS that keeps it as my top recommendation for him.

I hadn't considered the SS but if i could find it for 1300$ he might want it for that kind of mag range.

 

[Rerun7]

I've owned several optics in this price range and the good news is that it's hard to go wrong. Currently using an LRHS and it's a great scope, clear, repeatable and simple. Comparing that to an XTR ii I'd give the glass quality in the LRHS an edge but not by a ton. Mechanically the Burris seems tougher but I haven't had issues with either of them yet. FWIW, I'm about to sell the Burris but only because I stepped up to an AMG. The XTR ii is a lot of value in that price range.

 

[steve123]

I'm happy enough with my LRHS 3-12, just my nitpicking of small things. For a all around hunting scope it's pretty hard to beat. I do like illume which it's missing. For me 12x isn't quite enough sometimes... I imagine the eyebox isn't too bad on the 4.5-18i when dialed down a little.

I use Athlon's Talos BTR 4-14x44 quite a bit, more often than all my other scopes. I like it, it's just a nice size, weight and mag range, has good glass, awesome reticle and tracks well. Refinement is down a bit but that's because of it's price point/$300. I've had one on my AR in 6mmmFatRat for over a year now and really can't complain. Heck, there are much more expensive scopes mentioned in this thread that I'd choose that cheap Talos over! Got 4 more coming next week.

Maybe the solution for you and dad is to keep saving for the NF 4-16 and use something like the Talos for now then mount the Talos on a 22rf later???

 

[5RWill]

If i had something to lend him and knew he would put an ATACR on it i would but i just can't see it. It was a big jump for him to drop 1100$ on the razor binocs he got, which he loves, so maybe his opinion has changed and once he sees the rifle he might want to put a high end optic on it. I was surprised last year when the Razor LH lineup basically didn't incorporate any features i was interested in. It's like the hunting crowd is hell bent on MOA SFP, which makes looking for a adequate mag, lightweight, FFP, Mil/Mil hunting optic a bit of a conundrum, least below a 2-3K price range.

I know the alternative is to look at MOA cause he'll be using it much more than i will but i just have no desire to mix and match. Did it once with a mk12 mod 1 clone and ended up dialing for Mils when that Mark 4 was MOA or IPHY. I'd rather start him out on Mils as that argument has long been dead in my mind.

If i could do away with FFP an ATACR might be more accessible, or a look at Zeiss' V6 conquest would be a light weight option with great glass. I know the consensus in the hunting realm is that SFP>FFP but i whole heartedly disagree. If he's taking a shot in high wind and it changes or he needs to take a shot quickly i don't want him to be limited to a specific magnification.

Right now i think the LRHS takes the cake, which is what i had planned on but was just making sure i was covering my bases and wasn't overlooking any other optics. I appreciate the insight though, i guess we'll revisit the matter when the rifle is done.

 

[jsthntn247]

I don't having used an ERS and seen the Gen II ERS in person i'm a pretty big Bushnell fan. If it were up to me and my money i would invest to have top tier glass. I know him though and he isn't going to drop 2K on an optic. The more i read into the LRHS the more positives i find about the LRHS that keeps it as my top recommendation for him.

I hadn't considered the SS but if i could find it for 1300$ he might want it for that kind of mag range.

You can pick one on the classifieds for around 900$ from time to time. I did and sold it to a buddy later on. Every time we go shoot I look through the scope and compare it to others and the damn thing has really good glass.

 

[5RWill]

You can pick one on the classifieds for around 900$ from time to time. I did and sold it to a buddy later on. Every time we go shoot I look through the scope and compare it to others and the damn thing has really good glass.

Pretty much what i've gathered as well from reading. If it has comparable glass to the Zeiss conquest that's plenty. To which i assume it does.

 

[Macht]

I'd have to add a vote for the LRHS. I use the 3-12x44 and my only complaint is that mine doesn't have illumination. Depending on the ranges it's to be used at, the 4.5-18 might be better, but I've never handled one personally.

 

[B-P-UU]

I know this is an optics thread, but what you have listed won't make your weight requirements of 8-10.
I've got a TL2, EH1, 3B @ 22.5", Curtis BM, and Vortex AMG was on it for weigh-in.. 10.5 lbs with no mag.
add a loaded 3 round mag, sling, atlas, and can was 12.5 lbs.

LRHS is a lot of scope for the money.. pick up a 3-12 for 700-800 bucks on the PX while you wait for an ATACR later on if need be. It's a "simple" scope with nice large numbers like you said. SHV seems like a good option too if 14x is needed, but I have no experience with them.

 

[BELLYCRAWL]

Weaver Tactical 3-15 x 50, FFP, simple EDMR Ret., illumination, locking turrets, 26ish ounces, decent glass, parallax down to 35 yds I believe.

Not a bad option at around $600.00.

 

[5RWill]

Well i got a great deal on the LRHS 4.5-18x44 from optics planet paired with the rebate that i couldn't turn down, mainly because i came to realization after selling most of my optics i'd only have one optic left to go between 5 rifles in the next 5-7 years. So if he doesn't want to jump on a scope right when the rifle's done i'll put my LRHS on the SAUM and he'll be able to hunt. In the meantime i'm going to run it on my 308 and SPR.

 

[700smooth]

following

 

[TheBigCountry]

I'm still relatively new to all this, but like you I wound up with a LRHS 4.5-18 for my 308 and when I looked through the glass I was very impressed with it, and some may hang me but I thought it was there with the Razor Gen II I had a while ago. I'm more then pleased with my LRHS and hopefully yours suits you just fine.

 

[5RWill]

The LRHS has, from the day it was in consumer's hands had a good reputation for the glass. Very few that i've seen have not spoken highly of the glass. I think most figured with it being at a lower price than the HDMR/ERS/XRS that it was guaranteed to have worse or equal glass and it seems that's simply not the case.

 

[spife7980]

I hope that the LRTSi has that same glass (which I think it does but honestly until just recently I didnt even realize there was a T & H version so I never paid close enough attention to the reviews in the past). Just like you I found a deal too good to pass up. It was scopelist so I got it for like 14% below asking and then Ill get the 25% off that with the bushnell rebate. I was all in on a cronus btr but this was too good not to go for.

 

[5RWill]

I'm expecting at the very worse to be on par with my previous ERS i had. Though all indications from owners from what little i can find suggest it's going to be a step above the ERS. The ERS was a great day time scope, in that regard it served it's purpose extremely well for a competition scope. It was it's lowlight performance that was lacking.

 

[5RWill]

Got the LRHS in today. Thus far I'm very very impressed. I had read several claims of it having glass comparable to scopes twice it's price, in this case i don't think it's a false statement. Right now I'd say easily better than the mark 4 and a hair better the mark 6 I had. Mainly i remember the contrast of the Mark 6 being off and it suffering from severe CA, which looking at white paper today with the LRHS, albeit it overcast, i didn't notice any. I'll wait to reserve judgement in that area for a sunny day on white steel. In comparable light it holds it's own against my SN-3 to the point i just had a grin on my face. Resolution isn't quite up there with the SN-3 but it isn't that far off. I'll go ahead and say it's noticeably better than my ERS was. FOV isn't bad, doesn't seem to be as big as my USO though, which is one of the reasons i love their eyebox and image. It's freaking huge even in a 30mm Tube/44mm objective. The reticle is nice and crisp, really love the ring of death as they put it. Eyebox at 18x is actually extremely comfortable. I thought it would be similar to my Mark 6 i owned in the past, which was terribly sensitive. Those complaining about the sensitivity of it must be more susceptible to it than me, because honestly it felt exactly like my ERS which isn't as comfortable as a Gen II razor or Kahles or my USO but it's not bad by any means. My hash marks line up perfectly on the elevation knob and clicks are extremely tactile. Thus far for what i'll get after rebate there is nothing off the top of my head that remotely comes close. Didn't get to compare lowlight performance because i got rained out due to storms. When we get some decent weather in the next week i'll go out and keep looking at them until the sun goes down and see how it fairs.
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[TSpork]

I don't having used an ERS and seen the Gen II ERS in person i'm a pretty big Bushnell fan. If it were up to me and my money i would invest to have top tier glass. I know him though and he isn't going to drop 2K on an optic. The more i read into the LRHS the more positives i find about the LRHS that keeps it as my top recommendation for him.

I hadn't considered the SS but if i could find it for 1300$ he might want it for that kind of mag range.

There's a gen II ERS? I'm thinking of picking one up, and I didn't know this existed. just wondering, what are the differences?

 

[spife7980]

I don't think they are out in the wild yet. 5rwill has another thread about the gen2 ers and xrs and wondering about when they'll be released etc. Only a few have gotten to see them but word is that they have the low pro turrets etc like the lrts and dmr2 have and then the normal step up in other features with each level just like the current lines do. But they have the lrts zero stop and are ditching the old version that gave others fits.

 

[5RWill]

There's a gen II ERS? I'm thinking of picking one up, and I didn't know this existed. just wondering, what are the differences?

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...copes-coming-from-bushnell-the-ers-xrs-gen-ii

Yup no idea when it will be released. I asked the Bushnell Rep on here and he hasn't been able to divulge much. I think and this is just my observation, that bushnell is having a pretty hard time keeping up with demand as is. I mean DMRII, LRHS/LRTS are pretty scarce to some degree. If they're not the price is usually 1300-1500 depending on which mag you choose. If it's priced appropriately (say 1999$) it's going to be impossible to beat for the money. Imagine the DMR II but with ATACR/Gen II razor glass and you essentially have the ERS/XRS Gen II. I do hope for a open center G3 reticle.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I used a 5-20x50 SWFA SS for years before upgrading to Bushnell's HDMR and then to a Vortex Razor gen 2.

 

[TSpork]

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...copes-coming-from-bushnell-the-ers-xrs-gen-ii

Yup no idea when it will be released. I asked the Bushnell Rep on here and he hasn't been able to divulge much. I think and this is just my observation, that bushnell is having a pretty hard time keeping up with demand as is. I mean DMRII, LRHS/LRTS are pretty scarce to some degree. If they're not the price is usually 1300-1500 depending on which mag you choose. If it's priced appropriately (say 1999$) it's going to be impossible to beat for the money. Imagine the DMR II but with ATACR/Gen II razor glass and you essentially have the ERS/XRS Gen II. I do hope for a open center G3 reticle.

Thanks a lot for the info. I was looking at picking up an ERS since the deals are so good for a 700 5R I just got. I wasn't sure if the ERS genII was just gradual changes to the scope that I somehow missed. I remember a few years ago they were very popular, now they have seemed to have fallen out of the limelight, and you don't hear about them too much anymore.

 

[5RWill]

Thanks a lot for the info. I was looking at picking up an ERS since the deals are so good for a 700 5R I just got. I wasn't sure if the ERS genII was just gradual changes to the scope that I somehow missed. I remember a few years ago they were very popular, now they have seemed to have fallen out of the limelight, and you don't hear about them too much anymore.

I think they're still pretty popular just hard to come by. Hell i was looking for a DMR II to use the 25% rebate on and couldn't find one. Can't hardly find the LRTS either. The LRHS is somewhat easy to find. Problem is that the Gen II razors with some phone calls or shopping can roughly be had at 1800$ for the 3-18 and a little over 2100$ for the 4.5-27. Then you have the Cronus at 1800$ which IMHO has better glass than the ERS gen I and more or less the new craze like the ERS/DMR was. That said i'm sure you could find the DMRII under retail.

What i don't understand is that apparently as far as i can tell the DMRII didn't receive the same glass that's in the LRTS/LRHS. Which thus far is phenomenal for the price.

 

[TSpork]

I think they're still pretty popular just hard to come by. Hell i was looking for a DMR II to use the 25% rebate on and couldn't find one. Can't hardly find the LRTS either. The LRHS is somewhat easy to find. Problem is that the Gen II razors with some phone calls or shopping can roughly be had at 1800$ for the 3-18 and a little over 2100$ for the 4.5-27. Then you have the Cronus at 1800$ which IMHO has better glass than the ERS gen I and more or less the new craze like the ERS/DMR was. That said i'm sure you could find the DMRII under retail.

What i don't understand is that apparently as far as i can tell the DMRII didn't receive the same glass that's in the LRTS/LRHS. Which thus far is phenomenal for the price.

What's the difference between the DMR II and the ERS? Which would you say is better

 

[5RWill]

What's the difference between the DMR II and the ERS? Which would you say is better

I haven't looked through a DMRII. I had an original ERS that i just recently got rid of. Going on Bill's review (wjm308) the large change to the DMR II seemed to be the new coatings which helped the low light performance compared to the older model. Which in all honesty was lackluster, for the specs, which made it somewhat of a difficult scope to hunt with. Of the post i've seen by those who actually own the DMR II i think they've all stated the glass is unchanged versus the original DMR/HDMR/ERS/XRS. Which, like i said is strange considering the LRHS/LRTS have glass that is better than my ERS. My LRHS is downright impressive compared to my ERS.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...uation-part-ii

EDIT

I say that, then re-reading his review it seems the DMR II is a step up from the old ERS.

 

[TSpork]

I haven't looked through a DMRII. I had an original ERS that i just recently got rid of. Going on Bill's review (wjm308) the large change to the DMR II seemed to be the new coatings which helped the low light performance compared to the older model. Which in all honesty was lackluster, for the specs, which made it somewhat of a difficult scope to hunt with. Of the post i've seen by those who actually own the DMR II i think they've all stated the glass is unchanged versus the original DMR/HDMR/ERS/XRS. Which, like i said is strange considering the LRHS/LRTS have glass that is better than my ERS. My LRHS is downright impressive compared to my ERS.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...uation-part-ii

EDIT

I say that, then re-reading his review it seems the DMR II is a step up from the old ERS.

That's interesting. I was curious because the DMR II is listed as cheaper than the ERS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[5RWill]

I always saw the DMR II as the natural successor of the ERS. Basically fielding an upgraded version of the ERS cover the HDMR/ERS price spectrum by pricing it between those two. Then Bushnell would finally field a 2500$ competitor, which is what they've really been missing. Though that void has been filled with the ERS/XRS Gen II, just a matter of them announcing and releasing them.

 

[BurnOut]

Weaver Tactical 3-15 x 50, FFP, simple EDMR Ret., illumination, locking turrets, 26ish ounces, decent glass, parallax down to 35 yds I believe.

Not a bad option at around $600.00.

^^This.^^

The Weaver 3-15 Tactical is an absolutely STELLAR bang for the buck at the price point. I have two of them, and couldn't be more pleased.