Suppressors Question about suppressors and paperwork

[deersniper]

". If you are found to be in lawful possession of an NFA item but failed to cooperate with local authorities the ATF may reevaluate your stamp authorization and take possession of those items"

Provide one instance of this happening or stop spreading more bogey man bull shit on the Internet

 

[Sierra770]

". If you are found to be in lawful possession of an NFA item but failed to cooperate with local authorities the ATF may reevaluate your stamp authorization and take possession of those items"

Provide one instance of this happening or stop spreading more bogey man bull shit on the Internet

I have seen it with a gentleman hunting with a suppressor. The hunter didn't have a license to hunt, nor did he have his suppressor paperwork. The hunter was cited for hunting without a license and the suppressor was seized until the hunter could retrieve the paper and show the authorities proof. It was promptly returned.

But again, that's a situation that was ancillary to the suppressor possession. The guy should have had his hunting license. While this is pure speculation, but I would venture a guess that if the hunter had presented his license and been legal, the suppressor issue would have likely not come up.

 

[Felhammer]

William Parker, released from federal custody December 2018. Ex wife reported to local law enforcement that he had several illegal firearms and she was afraid he would kill her. Open contact he refused to cooperate with local law enforcement prompting them to contact the Salem office. Once ATF made contact he refused to cooperate claiming he had no obligation to do so because he was on his land. After the warrant was served he was found to be in legal possession of 1 SBR and one suppressor. The DAO deferred sentencing but the State Attorney sought to recover resources spent during this 3 day ordeal. His stamp was under review at that time but was likely going to retain permission. However, during his preliminary hearing he threaten the judge and a federal prosecutor who was there simply to defer. He served 5 years at USP Florence DA unit. Then was transferred to the state to serve 90 days. All of this could have been avoided had he simply complied with local law enforcements request to see the firearms in question and cooperate with the field interview. There a few cases like this and all of them started the same way.

 

[deersniper]

I have seen it with a gentleman hunting with a suppressor. The hunter didn't have a license to hunt, nor did he have his suppressor paperwork. The hunter was cited for hunting without a license and the suppressor was seized until the hunter could retrieve the paper and show the authorities proof. It was promptly returned.

But again, that's a situation that was ancillary to the suppressor possession. The guy should have had his hunting license. While this is pure speculation, but I would venture a guess that if the hunter had presented his license and been legal, the suppressor issue would have likely not come up.

That is not the ATF rescinding the form 1/4 approval and seizing the item

 

[deersniper]

William Parker, released from federal custody December 2018. Ex wife reported to local law enforcement that he had several illegal firearms and she was afraid he would kill her. Open contact he refused to cooperate with local law enforcement prompting them to contact the Salem office. Once ATF made contact he refused to cooperate claiming he had no obligation to do so because he was on his land. After the warrant was served he was found to be in legal possession of 1 SBR and one suppressor. The DAO deferred sentencing but the State Attorney sought to recover resources spent during this 3 day ordeal. His stamp was under review at that time but was likely going to retain permission. However, during his preliminary hearing he threaten the judge and a federal prosecutor who was there simply to defer. He served 5 years at USP Florence DA unit. Then was transferred to the state to serve 90 days. All of this could have been avoided had he simply complied with local law enforcements request to see the firearms in question and cooperate with the field interview. There a few cases like this and all of them started the same way.

That is not the ATF rescinding the form 1/4 approval and seizing the item

 

[Sierra770]

That is not the ATF rescinding the form 1/4 approval and seizing the item

Agreed.

Look I agree, I have never seen or heard of ATF "revoking a stamp" and I have been doing this for a very long time.

 

[Felhammer]

That is not the ATF rescinding the form 1/4 approval and seizing the item

The point is that it went under review based on his non compliance after ATF was contacted they could have asked local law enforcement for a 12 hour detainer.

 

[Holliday]

I try to keep my paperwork with me. That said, sometimes an impromptu dash to the range results in me forgetting it. Here in Wyoming, I don’t worry about it much but if I lived in other states, I would be more particular about it. I do make sure I have it while hunting.

For the $200 hassle and long wait we should get a wallet card that is complete for the basic LEO verification of ownership and registration. Hell, Colorado does those for Birth certificates and the passport office does cards. They are not meant to be full replacements but simply a convenient wallet carry option ........

 

[Felhammer]

Agreed.

Look I agree, I have never seen or heard of ATF "revoking a stamp" and I have been doing this for a very long time.

Perhaps I didn’t go in to enough detail about the process. Charges would have to prompt the review in order for the revocation to be enacted. Certain investigations can temporarily suspend your access under rare circumstances.

 

[Sierra770]

William Parker, released from federal custody December 2018. Ex wife reported to local law enforcement that he had several illegal firearms and she was afraid he would kill her. Open contact he refused to cooperate with local law enforcement prompting them to contact the Salem office. Once ATF made contact he refused to cooperate claiming he had no obligation to do so because he was on his land. After the warrant was served he was found to be in legal possession of 1 SBR and one suppressor. The DAO deferred sentencing but the State Attorney sought to recover resources spent during this 3 day ordeal. His stamp was under review at that time but was likely going to retain permission. However, during his preliminary hearing he threaten the judge and a federal prosecutor who was there simply to defer. He served 5 years at USP Florence DA unit. Then was transferred to the state to serve 90 days. All of this could have been avoided had he simply complied with local law enforcements request to see the firearms in question and cooperate with the field interview. There a few cases like this and all of them started the same way.

It appears this situation has a lot to unpack. Just looking at the catalyst for this incident that you described above, there was a threat to life component, which again appeared when he threatened the Judge and Prosecutor.

I get the point you want to make. Yes, things go smoother (generally speaking) when people cooperate with law enforcement especially when it is something along the lines of ..

Person in Authority: "Are you authorized to have/do/enter (insert issue/location)?"
Person Not In Authority Response: "Why yes, yes I am and here is the legal document to prove it"

But not all interactions are that simple and cut and dry. That's why blanket statements/always and never arguments are pointless because each interaction is unique

 

[deersniper]

Perhaps I didn’t go in to enough detail about the process. Charges would have to prompt the review in order for the revocation to be enacted. Certain investigations can temporarily suspend your access under rare circumstances.

The point is that it went under review based on his non compliance after ATF was contacted they could have asked local law enforcement for a 12 hour detainer.

"Once ATF made contact he refused to cooperate claiming he had no obligation to do so because he was on his land. "

Still see no evidence of ATF causing issues because you don't show the local idiot deputy your papers.

ATF has very poor record keeping. They have no idea of the total silencers or machine guns. They aren't going out and seizing stuff they don't know about either

 

[Sierra770]

Perhaps I didn’t go in to enough detail about the process. Charges would have to prompt the review in order for the revocation to be enacted. Certain investigations can temporarily suspend your access under rare circumstances.

Yes, when someone is charged with a felony it changes things. We are not talking about that in this thread. Merely, citizens not carrying documentation and refusing to answer questions about paperwork to anyone but an ATF Agent. Personally, that doesn't upset me in the least. If I have a legal right to find this out, it is relatively easy to do without a whole lot of fuss or unnecessary confrontation.

This is all hypothetical and academic at this point. And the parameters surrounding any citizen/police interaction are as unique and varied as last weeks powerball lottery ticket.

The smart play is to carry your paperwork, but every man has to decide for himself how he wants to interact with the authorities.

 

[Felhammer]

Absolutely, I may have addressed that earlier or meant to and was distracted by various other thoughts. You could not be more correct. Unfortunately, I transcribe like a senior NCO still. My brain runs like a 6.4L with a whipple but my fingers type like I’m running 4 spare doughnuts on the Autobahn.

 

[Felhammer]

It’s cause and effect. Local “idiot” as you put it, gets a call from dispatch reporting that a man has a belt fed ICBM launcher and this person feels like they are in danger. Local Law enforcement is obligated to respond to all perceived threats within their jurisdiction. Average Local law enforcement officer who despite having to deal with tight pants Antifa wanna be’s all day approaches the situation professionally by describing what was reported. Notices that your belt fed ICBM launcher has a 8” barrel. Well shit, here in Narnia anything shorter than a 14” barrel is illegal without a permit. Should he (a) ask for identification and inquire about the weapon? Or (b) About face and take the risk that you will start launching nukes at Fraggle Rock? He could easily go back to his wife and kids on Sesame street but then he remembers all the kids at the school shooting in peppermint valley and how 2 officers could have prevented 20 kids from dying just 3 hours prior to that happening. Then he remembers why he volunteered to take the job all those years ago. It was simply that he loved the town he grew up in. So you see Dr. Chocolate Thunder, there are thousands of ways this scenario could start, play out and end. While you might have some resentment against that officer who inconvenienced you by detaining you and confiscating the can of gold spray paint you were huffing, he took an oath to be there for his community during the uncomfortable encounters, tragic accidents, and horrific unthinkable aftermath of inhuman action. But go on and stick it to the man. Tell all of us how you were so brave by telling the local idiot to kick rocks when he simply wanted to inquire as to weather or not he could be at ease next time he ran into you with your missile launcher. We should all be as internet courageous.

 

[deersniper]

i don't recall the second amendment saying anything about "tax " stamps and permits

Perhaps the Leo could uphold his oath and drop the respect my authority serfs must obey all laws bs

 

[Holliday]

i don't recall the second amendment saying anything about "tax " stamps and permits

Perhaps the Leo could uphold his oath and drop the respect my authority serfs must obey all laws bs

Papers please......

 

[deersniper]

Papers please......

View attachment 7072084

Careful now. The crybabies hate truthful memes. You can get banned for posting nazi cop comparison memes. Lots of good Ives out there lol

 

[Felhammer]

One could surmise that is simply due to the idea that our founders had established the concept of “Home Rule Enforcement by Sworn Officers” as opposed to “Birthright Authority.” From 1775-1798 non showing disrespect to a sworn officer landed you in court with only 3 outcomes based on the severity. Justified, guilty punishable by sentenced labor or guilty punishable by hanging. Look, I would love to have the NFA overturned or at least revised in a practical meaning. Your problem seems to be with the Law makers not the enforcement officers. In the 7 years I’ve been in law enforcement (5 of it federal) I haven’t come across a single officer that gets off on throwing around his authority half as much as you get off on bashing them. It would give me great joy to have a week go by where I could just look at the people around me in Walmart and not wonder if one of them is the guy responsible for the case I’m working. Yea there are a hand full of officers and agents that are assholes but there are no shortages of that at church Sunday morning either. You sit and judge all of us with a single stroke of your presumption coated paintbrush. But never walked in my shoes. I don’t even get to walk in my shoes. I’m always in the shoes of a lifeless victim, a sex trafficker or a homicidal gang member. But carry that shit and then come home to a forum that I do enjoy 99% of the time to find an keyboard warrior, that out of the thin air decided to revive a month old dead discussion with a rebuttal of “bullshit.” I’m fine with having a discussion about the law and how it is enforced. Your tell was that you couldn’t have an intelligent discussion without insulting a profession that requires personal courage as a way of life. I suspect that you lack the basic qualifications of a moral backbone to apply for such a position. Much less a clear background to be considered in the first place. I do hope that one day your typing hand leaves the digital safety of hard ass land and decide to put your moms money where your mouth is and follow through to an officers face after he has nothing left to lose. You haven’t a clue the amount of heart required to do that job.

 

[Holliday]

Papers please......

View attachment 7072084

Careful now. The crybabies hate truthful memes. You can get banned for posting nazi cop comparison memes. Lots of good Ives out there lol

My best friend (read Brother) is a cop. I am also a civil libertarian. Our demographic (2A) is incredibly supportive of cops. That said, if gun owners would get off their lazy asses and fight at the legislature and voting booths, there would be less bad laws they have to enforce......

 

[Felhammer]

I actually don’t mind them. At least they are funny. It also draws a perfect comparison to the indulgent correlation between the principal idea and the charismatic leftists that use the same tactics. The only difference being that they act on their misguided beliefs instead of interneting about it. I at least respect that they are attempting a small amount of courage.

 

[deersniper]

My best friend (read Brother) is a cop. I am also a civil libertarian. Our demographic (2A) is incredibly supportive of cops. That said, if gun owners would get off their lazy asses and fight at the legislature and voting booths, there would be less bad laws they have to enforce......

The problem is a lot of gun owners are not supporters of freedom. And a whole pile of gun owners like most gun laws because "those people shouldn't have guns". Or "no one needs a silencer/machine gun/30 round clip/ccw / etc. "