Rifle Scopes Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

[eleaf]

I just received my new-to-me Nightforce 5.5-22x56 MLR/MIL scope for my .308 and I have a question about sighting in. And yes, I have read, many times, the article about using MIL/MIL scopes.

I know and understand that in order to correctly gauge distance from a target the reticle needs to be at the correct power to use the mil system. In my case that power is 24x (I can double the number of mils at 12x, and quadruple them at 6x if I so choose).

Check.

But my question is about sighting in this scope. Theoretically, I shoot my 3 shot group and read the reticle. Aha! My group is x mils left/right and x mils high/low of my POA. I should be able to simply click the turrets according to that group and I should be on (or at least much closer).

Does the scope need to be zoomed to the correct power (in my case 24x) in order to accurately gauge sighting in?

It seems pretty logical that I should have to with a SFP scope, but I'm just not sure. It would seem to be a slow process of making the correct adjustments at range in a tactical situation.

Find target and get POA
Fire
Zoom in to gauge how far off POI is from POA
make adjustments
zoom back and once again get POA
Fire (and theoretically hit)

 

[im-ur-daisy]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

eleaf-

The unit of measure used has no bearing on zeroing your scope.

If your POI is say 1 mil low and .5 mil right of the POA simply use your turrets to make that correction. The only caution there is that the turret needs to be calibrated in mils also.
If you have a first focal plane scope as you reduce your magnification you'll see the reticle become finer or let's say smaller. The converse is true, and as you increase magnification your reticle will become larger and bolder.
With a first focal plane scope you can range at any magnification level.
2nd plane scopes are different and ranging is always done at the highest magnification available. With a 2nd focal plane scope, the reticle appearance will not change as you rotate through your magnifcation ranges.
Most scoperange in mils and the turrets are calibrated in Minute of Angle or centimeters. Just keep your units straight and you'll be in good shape.
I hope this has been of some help to you.

Regards,

IUD

Added comment:

To zero your scope this one procedure you can use

1. set your rifle up so that its rock solid.
2. fire your shot - do not move the rifle
3. using your turrets place the crosshair right over the point of impact resulting from step 2
4. your rifle is now zeroed
5. if you need additional adjustment it might just a tweek or so.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

Yes, if you are using the reticle to determine the difference in POI to POA, you need to be at the correct zoom.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

Yes, w/ a SFP scope you need to be on the right magnification before your reticle subtends correctly. Make sure you check the scope out to see where exactly this happens on your magnification ring. It may not be spot on to where it should. This will be the only place your reticle matches the turrets. Then like you said, with lower powers you can make the knobs match by doubling and quadroupling the reticle.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2nd plane scopes are different and ranging is always done at the highest magnification available.</div></div>

I'm afraid that's not universally true. The reticle of some SFP scopes is correct at less than the maximum power. Check with the manufacturer, or check it yourself.

Optically Checking Rifle Scopes

 

[orkan]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

... and THIS is why FFP reticles rule the roost. hehehe

 

[eleaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2nd plane scopes are different and ranging is always done at the highest magnification available.</div></div>

I'm afraid that's not universally true. The reticle of some SFP scopes is correct at less than the maximum power. Check with the manufacturer, or check it yourself.

Optically Checking Rifle Scopes
</div></div>

That's true. The Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 that was replaced by this Nightforce subtends correctly at 12x. It was a deliberate decision, and a good one I think, so that ranging can be done in the middle range of the scope's variability, rather than having to zoom all the way in (24x is a lot of zoom to manage at close ranges, and may well be untenable at very close ranges such as zeroing at 100 yards).

 

[eleaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

Okay. So.

Either I should:

1) Zero using the correct magnification (24x) and simply click according to what I see in my reticle.

2) Zero at 12x, and simply double the number of mils I see in the reticle, and click accordingly (I.e., if I see that it is 1 mil high and 1 mil right, I would need to adjust 20 clicks down and 20 clicks left).

3) Zero at 6x, and simply quadruple the number of mils I see in the reticle (I.e., if I see that it is 1 mil high and 1 mil right, I would need to click 40 clicks down and 40 clicks left).

I don't have any access to a sighting vise to keep the rifle perfectly still.

Thanks.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

Assuming the scope DOES subtend at 24x, why would you zero it on anything lower? Personally, I like the most magnification I can get for precise crosshair placement.

But don't automatically assume 24x is the magic number. As others have said, it varies by scope manufacturer.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay. So.

Either I should:

1) Zero using the correct magnification (24x) and simply click according to what I see in my reticle.

2) Zero at 12x, and simply double the number of mils I see in the reticle, and click accordingly (I.e., if I see that it is 1 mil high and 1 mil right, I would need to adjust 20 clicks down and 20 clicks left).

3) Zero at 6x, and simply quadruple the number of mils I see in the reticle (I.e., if I see that it is 1 mil high and 1 mil right, I would need to click 40 clicks down and 40 clicks left).

I don't have any access to a sighting vise to keep the rifle perfectly still.

Thanks. </div></div>
yes

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x. </div></div>

Your heartbeat and any other factors are <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOT </span></span>moving your gun any more at 24x than they are at 10x. You just see it more on higher mag, but the gun is moving the same amount regardless. Personally, I woiuld rather SEE that movement and be aware of it and perhaps fix it instead of being ignorantly blissfull that nothings moving around... YMMV

 

[eleaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x. </div></div>

Your heartbeat and any other factors are <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOT </span></span>moving your gun any more at 24x than they are at 10x. You just see it more on higher mag, but the gun is moving the same amount regardless. Personally, I woiuld rather SEE that movement and be aware of it and perhaps fix it instead of being ignorantly blissfull that nothings moving around... YMMV </div></div>

That's a pretty good point. That said, the best way to fix it is to not be a lazy smoker with little cardiovascular stamina.

You're right the rifle doesn't move any less at lower mags, it just seems that it moves more at higher mags.

 

[mdmp5]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x.</div></div>

24x cannot be the correct mag, since the scope is 5.5-22. The correct ranging mags for NF are:

10x for 2.5-10
15x for 3.5-15
22x for 5.5-22, 8-32 and 12-42

 

[mdmp5]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x. </div></div>

Your heartbeat and any other factors are <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOT </span></span>moving your gun any more at 24x than they are at 10x. You just see it more on higher mag, but the gun is moving the same amount regardless. Personally, I woiuld rather SEE that movement and be aware of it and perhaps fix it instead of being ignorantly blissfull that nothings moving around... YMMV</div></div>

Yes, but sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. If you see every single mundane imperfection, it could mess with your head, causing you to keep chasing the center of the target. You may have been better off just taking the shot than striving for unobtainable perfection; kind of like over thinking.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x. </div></div>

Your heartbeat and any other factors are <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOT </span></span>moving your gun any more at 24x than they are at 10x. You just see it more on higher mag, but the gun is moving the same amount regardless. Personally, I woiuld rather SEE that movement and be aware of it and perhaps fix it instead of being ignorantly blissfull that nothings moving around... YMMV</div></div>

Yes, but sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. If you see every single mundane imperfection, it could mess with your head, causing you to keep chasing the center of the target. You may have been better off just taking the shot than striving for unobtainable perfection; kind of like over thinking. </div></div>
this is also true

 

[Chickeneye]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
24x cannot be the correct mag, since the scope is 5.5-22. The correct ranging mags for NF are:

10x for 2.5-10
15x for 3.5-15
22x for 5.5-22, 8-32 and 12-42

</div></div>
i was thinking the same thing..how can you range at 24x if you only have a 22x scope? lol

 

[eleaf]

Re: Question about using Mil/Mil scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my Nightforce, 24x is the correct magnification for ranging.

Having the magnification that high can play tricks and oftentimes makes it <span style="font-style: italic">more</span> difficult to have your POA and POI the same (in my experience). Heartbeat is accentuated greatly with higher magnifications. In my experience, my heartbeat can bump me off quite a bit when the magnification is too high for a particular range. Field of view is but a distant thought at very high magnifications.

Generally I like more magnification than I think I will use because someday I may find that I actually do want to use it that high, and I've always thought better to have and not need than need and not have.

That said, it's likely that my next scope purchase will be for a 3.5-15x.</div></div>

24x cannot be the correct mag, since the scope is 5.5-22. The correct ranging mags for NF are:

10x for 2.5-10
15x for 3.5-15
22x for 5.5-22, 8-32 and 12-42

</div></div>

Gross oversight. I was melding my old scope, a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50, and my new NF. Of course I was wrong.

Same rules apply. 22x click what I see. 11x click double what I see, 5.5x click quadruple what I see.

Thanks for pointing it out.