Question for those that wet tumble

[Darkside-Six]

Do you resize/deprime first? or do you tumble twice? I have been looking into switching to wet tumbling with SS media for the benefit of cleaning primer pockets so I'm just wondering what other peoples process is.

Thanks.

 

[918v]

I deprime using a universal decapping die then wet tumble.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I also decap before I wet tumble for 4 hours. I use dawn and 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi shine. Make sure not to use more then a 1/4 TS or it can stain the brass. Brass comes out clean and ready to prep for loading.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Thanks guys.

What are you using to dry the brass?

 

[Strykervet]

Gotta decap first. If you don't, when they dry out, the primer crud can seize the primer in place and cause problems when decapping. Learned this the hard way. Decapping first also allows the tumbling to clean out the primer pocket. Nice when you are cleaning thousands of pieces at a time.

I use a cement mixer and about 50lbs. of pins. I've noticed that after cleaning a couple thousand .50BMG and pouring out the water slowly, that the pins retained a lot of crud that dried in there. Next time I used it on 5.56, the brass came out with a thin coating of dull black yuck and will have to be cleaned again. So it would behoove you to clean out the pins and mixer from time to time it seems.

I use Dawn and Lemishine. Lemishine can be had on Amazon.

I bought a Dillon large basket media separator (the biggest one they make) but haven't tried it yet. By far the most tedious part of all this is getting all the pins out and doing it by hand is a real pain in the ass and mistakes can go unnoticed. Takes by far the most time. Really hoping this separator works.

As additional guarantee, I plan on putting a super strong rare earth magnet at the top of the drop tube on the 650XL press and maybe on the shellplate or support arm on the .50 press. A strong enough magnet will cause it to stick or else wobble if any pins are still in the brass. But it has to be a damn strong magnet to act on such a small pin from x distance in y weight brass.

Pins drying in the brass can stick --kinda like the crud I need to clean out of my media. They can stick well enough you won't shake them out. Brass will stop coming out clean when it gets this way too. You don't want even ONE pin going through a suppressor or nice barrel, so make damn sure you have some kind of way of catching brass with media still in it. Super magnets will work the best, but they MUST be powerful. Just running one over a drying rack would work too.

For drying, I bought 4 2x4's and a 2x5' roll of wire mesh (bigger than window screen, smaller than 5.56 brass). I cut the 2x4's and screwed them into a rack, stapled the wire on the bottom and that's my drying table. It's what the army uses to sort brass too, so that's where I got the idea from. Set it in the sun and it's usually good by sunset.

For winter, I may have to invest in a cheap, old oven for use after shaking and separating. Depends on price and safety, but it rains a LOT around here.

 

[Strykervet]

Oh, I tumble twice: Once after decapping with a universal decapper (even had a custom .50BMG decapper made for this) once after trimming and sizing. First time for obvious reasons, don't want to run thousands of dirty cases in my sizing or trimming dies and want clean pockets. The second time to remove all of the lube (which gets removed during dry vibratory tumbling after complete manufacture but this reduces the time spent in there) and to help deburr any roughness around the neck after auto-trimming.

Good luck, info is sparse on this method but there's a good video done by Miculek on this. It's how he deals with his brass and he goes through a LOT.

 

[Sig Marine]

Planning ahead will make drying easier. If you tumble at least a couple of days before needing the brass, spread them out on a towel and they will dry without any help. During the summer, you can spread them out on a towel and leave them in the sun. During the winter, put them on a cookie sheet and place them in the oven at 150 degrees for 15-20 minutes or so.

As for pins, pistol brass is easy, using a separator will get it done. Rifle brass takes a little more effort. I drain the dirty water and rinse with clean a few times and then with the cases still submerged in water, I remove them one at a time turning them upside down so the pins will run out. I then visually inspect then to make sure the pins are removed. After removing all the brass, I lay them in rows on a towel and pass a magnet over the cases to double check for any pins I overlooked. I've only found one in the thousands I've cleaned but one is all it takes to ruin a barrel.

As for length of time to tumble, I only tumbled for 15-20 minutes to avoid peening the neck edges too much. Primer pockets do not come out perfectly clean but I never worry about that. Any that have too much crude built up can be touched up with a pocket cleaning brush by hand or on a prep station.

Hope this helps...Sig Marine

 

[delfuego]

I just run them through the sizer and then wet tumble them (45-90minutes). Saves time. I use a separator with clean/cold water to rinse them. Next step is drying with a towel and hairdryer. Clean, dry and ready to load pretty quickly. Just make sure the flash-holes are dry before you prime them.

I only decap and tumble if they will be annealed. If I am annealing, I will resize then tumble in a vibratory/walnut to clean the case lube off.

I use more than 1/4th tablespoon of Lemi Shine (I do not measure). Lemi Shine is for the carbon. They will be just about as shiny with only Dawn. After rinsing and dry with a hairdryer they look great no stained brass here.

 

[steve123]

Do you resize/deprime first? or do you tumble twice? I have been looking into switching to wet tumbling with SS media for the benefit of cleaning primer pockets so I'm just wondering what other peoples process is.

Thanks.

I wipe off the brass by hand with paper towels, then resize, SS tumble, dry in convection oven for 30 minutes, anneal, trim, chamfer and debur. I use Neco drylube mopped into the necks before seating. The next time around I don't do anything but wipe off the cases before sizing. So every other firing it's vacation time, yay!

 

[918v]

I shake out the water by hand, then roll them around on a towel, then let air dry overnight.

 

[260284]

I put my brass in an old dehydrator that I quit using for jerky. A hour or so in that gets them dry. I just started using rice in my vibratory tumbler and I might quit the wet tumbling. The rice gets the primer pockets as clean as wet tumbling without the worry of missing a pin. Doesn't create the dust that corn or walnut does either.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

SigMarine: What kind of magnet are you using to pick up the pins? SS is very, very hard to get a magnet to stick. Then again, I've not tried ss tumbling media. Are some of the new 'moly' supermagnets useful?

Sounds like a good idea. I just never thought I could find a magnet that would grab a pin. I'll have to try it.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[03psd]

I universal decap than wet tumble. Then I size and wet tumble to get the lube off. I wish there was a wah to only go thru the hassle of tumbling 1 time but wiping lube off by hand for a couple hundred cases sucks even more.

 

[vh20]

SigMarine: What kind of magnet are you using to pick up the pins? SS is very, very hard to get a magnet to stick. Then again, I've not tried ss tumbling media. Are some of the new 'moly' supermagnets useful?

Sounds like a good idea. I just never thought I could find a magnet that would grab a pin. I'll have to try it.

Cheers,

Sirhr

You are right about TRUE stainless. I don't know what the alloy of the pins is, but cheaper stainless still has enough iron in it to be fairly magnetic. Take a magnet with you to Lowe's and test out their "stainless" BBQ grills and appliances. It will stick to all of them (my wife has refrigerator magnets all over our stainless Samsung). If the pins are made from a similar, cheaper-type alloy with higher Fe and less Cr and Ni, it will still be fairly magnetic.

 

[padom]

Honestly, I got away from stainless for all but cleaning super dirty once fired pistol and semi brass that I buy and want to reload for the first time. The inconsistent seating pressure after SS tumbling resulting in higher SD's and lowering accuracy drove me away from it for my daily cleaning.

I have yet to find accuracy or SD issues with dirty primer pockets that were cleaned in corn cob.. I loved the look of shiny new brass but it means nothing downrange. I now deprime and tumble in corn cob, then size, then tumble again to remove lube. Bullet seating is super consistent since you still have the carbon in the necks and I have achieved my best accuracy and lowest SD's with this method. I SS tumbled for years, but I now only use vibratory tumblers unless like I said I bought a huge batch of 1x LC 5.56, LC 308 or pistol brass from someone. Its generally super nasty so I deprime and SS tumble then its always dry tumbling after that.

SS tumble makes your brass look brand new, but in my experience removed the carbon that allows for consistent seating pressure which is detrimental to my overall goal of lowest SD's and smallest groups.

Just my $0.02

 

[918v]

I don't have any seating pressure inconsistency. I use one tablespoon of Palmolive Original, .8cc of Lemishine, 1 gal of water, and tumble overnight.

Having cleaned brass using a variety of methods and chemicals, I can say for certain that too much acid dries out the brass which causes galling and this is the cause of inconsistency in seating pressure. So for those of you using spoonfuls of Lemishine in hopes of speeding up the cleaning process, you are doing it wrong.

Cleaning the the way I do allows me to use .004" neck tension on thick walled necks without marking the bullet nose. The bullets slide in easily and smoothly.

Annealed necks require less neck tension and/or wax.

 

[padom]

Lolol. Anyone using more than a 1/4" teaspoon of lemishine doesn't know how to wet tumble and. I've been doing this a little while

It's a known fact that wet tumbling removes carbon from the case causing unnecessary force for the bullet to be seated compared to a case with carbon left in the neck...believe what voodoo you want, I've wet tumbled for years. It does nothing for you you downrange and can be detrimental in some cases.

 

[jtake]

I wet tumble with pins. Dry in oven @190 until paper underneath is dry.

I also dip my cases in mica before seating bullets. You can buy it in bulk (used for cosmetics) real cheap compared to graphite and just dip the necks into a small container. I then wipe down the outside of the cases before seating as the mica will build up inside your seating die and rifle if you do not wipe it off.

I noticed after doing this my SDs dropped from mid teens to single digits.

 

[Sig Marine]

SigMarine: What kind of magnet are you using to pick up the pins? SS is very, very hard to get a magnet to stick. Then again, I've not tried ss tumbling media. Are some of the new 'moly' supermagnets useful?

Sounds like a good idea. I just never thought I could find a magnet that would grab a pin. I'll have to try it.

Cheers,

Sirhr

I've got some 3/4" "rare earth" magnets that work well. I lay the cases in rows and pass the magnet across each row within a 1/4" of the cases. I pass it across the bases, then 1/3 of the way up, then another 1/3 and finally the neck area. Don't expect the brass to jump up violently but if you are close to the case and go slow, it will pick up the case. As for stainless tumbling removing carbon from inside the neck, this is a well know result of stainless pins as well as untrasonic cleaning. It's not a big deal. As one member mentioned, use mica or graphite or imperial lube inside the necks. My ESs are all under 15, some in single digits, with all my SDs in the single digits, some as low as 3.

 

[delfuego]

Lolol. Anyone using more than a 1/4" teaspoon of lemishine doesn't know how to wet tumble and. I've been doing this a little while

ok brother. You win the internet. I must be wrong. You shooting benchrest or just parroting what they are saying? My single digit SD's seem to not care about lemi-shine or neck carbon.

Not sure why ever thread on SH is a pissing match.

 

[padom]

ok brother. You win the internet. I must be wrong. You shooting benchrest or just parroting what they are saying? My single digit SD's seem to not care about lemi-shine or neck carbon.

Not sure why ever thread on SH is a pissing match.

First off my reply wasn't aimed towards you, you took it personal. Benchrest? Lmfao...And yes, I'm a parrot you got me!

 

[TripleBull]

Most benchrest shooters in these parts quit using lemi-shine long ago. Boner-shine is the only way to go if you want LR performance.

 

[1J04]

I decap as well with a lee universal decapping die, then wet tumble, resize, toss'm in the vibratory dealy majig with polish cuz shiny brass gives me approximately 75 fps more goodness over the Chrono. I use the cheap Frankford Arsenal Magnet and it's fine for what it's intended for.

 

[DaveinCO]

For me wet tumbling is something i only do if it is really needed. I love the way brass looks but it's just too much time to do every time. If i get fired 5.56 it gets decapped and swaged then wet tumbled. After that a dry tumble for the rest of its servicable life. I will wet tumble nasty pistol brass but i shoot cast bullets and the lube sticks to everything.
I got one of the frankford arsenal media separators that sits on a bucket, fill the bucket so that the cases are in the water and the pins get washed out. If the pins aren't submurged the surface tension of the water makes them stick to the cases.

 

[gigamortis]

Honestly, I got away from stainless for all but cleaning super dirty once fired pistol and semi brass that I buy and want to reload for the first time. The inconsistent seating pressure after SS tumbling resulting in higher SD's and lowering accuracy drove me away from it for my daily cleaning.

Just my $0.02

I recently experimented with the wet SS pin cleaning. I loved how clean the cases were, but was not impressed with the mild case mouth edge peening. I doubled my pin quantity to try to reduce this, but it wasn't as successful as I had hoped. I did notice my seating pressure was cut in half as compared to my ultrasonic cleaned brass. It was as if the SS pins polished the neck IDs vs the raw brass finished IDs of my ultrasonic cleaned brass. After shooting 3 or 4 matches with SS cleaned brass, I was seeing 2 or 3 flyers out of each 15 round relay. I knew my combination is definitely more consistent than that, so I went back to ultrasonic cleaning and my flyers were eliminated. Even though my ultrasonic cleaned brass is devoid of carbon in the necks, seating pressure has always been very consistent with this system for me with single digit SDs. I anneal every firing no matter what the cleaning method.

I am just going to reserve the wet SS pin method for grungy pistol brass and stick with ultrasonic for precision rifle loads.

 

[Cody S]

Place in oven at 220F, water boils away, and brass doesn't anneal at that temperature. Or just tumble it in corncob/walnut for a couple minutes to soak out the last little bits of water, tbats generally what I always do.

 

[flyright]

Well, I've been stainless tumbling in my STM Rebel 17 for about a year and loved the squeaky clean brass it produces but I have also grown tired of the media separating/drying procedures required. So, on a whim, I dried out my tumbler and threw in some rice (Nishiki medium grain from Amazon) and tumbled 60 resized cases for 3 hours. I then Giraud trimmed and tumbled for another 30 minutes. The cases came out nicely polished but no where near what stainless pins provide. I had to clear about 20 out of 60 flash holes. However, I had no case mouth peening and bullets seated smoothly without any graphite lube. My initial range test showed a slight improvement with groups - 1/2 moa to maybe 1/3 to 1/4 moa with some identical rounds. I believe there might be some credence to leaving a slight carbon layer in the case mouth - which the rice doesn't seem to remove - though I've had great results with new brass also. Not having to dry cases was a plus for sure and I will continue this experiment. My .02...

 

[TripleBull]

I believe there might be some credence to leaving a slight carbon layer in the case mouth - which the rice doesn't seem to remove - though I've had great results with new brass also.

Tumbling with rice adds carbon to the surface of brass. Rice is mostly carbohydrate with some fiber and protein and a little bit of fat and all of those contain carbon. Rice is easily milled by brass during tumbling, so the brass gets coated with organic carbon.

 

[SPAK]

Well, I've been stainless tumbling in my STM Rebel 17 for about a year and loved the squeaky clean brass it produces but I have also grown tired of the media separating/drying procedures required. So, on a whim, I dried out my tumbler and threw in some rice (Nishiki medium grain from Amazon) and tumbled 60 resized cases for 3 hours. I then Giraud trimmed and tumbled for another 30 minutes. The cases came out nicely polished but no where near what stainless pins provide. I had to clear about 20 out of 60 flash holes. However, I had no case mouth peening and bullets seated smoothly without any graphite lube. My initial range test showed a slight improvement with groups - 1/2 moa to maybe 1/3 to 1/4 moa with some identical rounds. I believe there might be some credence to leaving a slight carbon layer in the case mouth - which the rice doesn't seem to remove - though I've had great results with new brass also. Not having to dry cases was a plus for sure and I will continue this experiment. My .02...

how full did you fill your tumbler with rice??

 

[Creek4]

De-prime/size, tumble with ss media in water and rcbs solution , frankford arsenal brass dryer, load on

 

[raven88]

de-cap......wet tumble with 3mm ceramic balls.....rinse, dry..... (gave up on SS pins because of potential risk of damage to rifle barrel if you miss one) the ceramic balls do at least as good of a job as SS pins for cleaning and no worries about missing a pin. This article is an alternative method to clean brass and I have been very happy with results. Almost as shiny and clean as using ceramic balls or SS pins.....but without the hassle and mess.
From the Primal Rights web site. https://forums.gunhive.com/topic/681/play-with-your-food-clean-brass-with-rice

 

[5RWill]

While you've already probably gotten the response intended. I deprime then tumble then dry. I then resize, trim, prime, and load. I trim every firing because you're basically required to do so if you're using pins. They peen the shit out of the case mouth. Friends of mine use metal shavings of some sort that don't peen the case mouth though.

Also trimming every firing if you have something like a Giraud pretty much remedies seating depth inconsistency due to a nice chamfer on the case mouth. No neck lube required and +/- .001 in seating depth consistency.

de-cap......wet tumble with 3mm ceramic balls.....rinse, dry..... (gave up on SS pins because of potential risk of damage to rifle barrel if you miss one) the ceramic balls do at least as good of a job as SS pins for cleaning and no worries about missing a pin. This article is an alternative method to clean brass and I have been very happy with results. Almost as shiny and clean as using ceramic balls or SS pins.....but without the hassle and mess.
From the Primal Rights web site. https://forums.gunhive.com/topic/681...rass-with-rice

Where does one get these ceramic balls?

 

[TripleBull]

Where does one get these ceramic balls?

I'd try local suppliers first as the cost could be fairly low but you could try these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500g-65-Zir...779344?hash=item440aab5f50:g:4Z4AAOSwacFZcBxH

I'd start with a short cleaning attempt on low value brass first as ZrO2 can be a bit aggressive, depending on surface texture. The listing claims they are smooth surface, but I'd be cautious.

 

[flyright]

how full did you fill your tumbler with rice?

60 308, 6.5 cases and filled to within about 2 1/2 inches from the top.

 

[JePhyllis]

I usually remove primers before wet tumbling, Usually decapping and annealing, followed by a 2 hours wet tumbling. Then dry them and do the neck sizing and trimming and pocket cleaning. Finally wet tumbling for 30 mins and dry them.

 

[TylerN]

I deprime using a universal decapping die then wet tumble.

Yup, exactly this

 

[Monmouth]

Those that know me know I've cleaned some brass in my life thus far. Dirty military range brass:

pick up brass
throw them into vessel (mine are industrial size), no pins because it will gather sand then you have a headache later
soap, water, bump of lemishine
roll till clean
drain water, soap, sand, etc.... Clean rinse to remove more soap, not necessary
now, take brass and throw it into vibratory with corn and a little polish (used media)
this will dry brass and suck water from primer pockets
press ready

after press work
wash again with pins
drain, separate pins, quick rinse off the soap
return to vibrator with final new/newish media (this media will eventual become used media) and nice amount of polish
thank me later

now, we use proprietary polishes, cleaners, etc... Due to industrial sized cleaning batches. However, this method will work with the above mentioned soaps/lemishine. Also, this method will give you brilliant brass, prohibits tarnish, and gives you a touch of slickness (lemishine strips the metal).

i have a love/hate relationship with 7.62 LC and pea gravel, haha

 

[smax]

I use a Lee universal decapper and then dry them with the air compressor.

 

[Praeger]

Try stainless steel rice . . . https://www.facebook.com/southernshinetumblers/
It easily pours out of the case, cleans out primer pockets nicely, and does not "peen" the casing mouth.

 

[SPAK]

I just tried white rice in my thumblers model b...I’m not convinced the media is what’s completely causing the case mouth damage. I still got some peening ofcthe case mouth although a lot less than with steel media. Primer pockets don’t come out as clean with white rice, the grains just get stuck in the pockets. Still need to clean them out with a,tool... I didn’t have any flash holes plugged with rice at all though.

however, brass was cleaned and I still had a little bit of carbon in the necks which is what I wanted. I got tired of lubing Bullets for seating. Seating Bullets was WAY smoother than using brass cleaned with steel media and using graphite dry lube on Bullets. Something I’ve missed for years since I switched to stainless.

the white rice has enough of my attention that I bought a vibrating tumbler to try it in there instead.

 

[the m700 project]

I prefer tumbling with primer. I run 2 hrs or so with dawn/lemishine then put in hornady case dryer for an hour http://www.cabelas.com/product/HORNA...ER/2222255.uts . It ends up clean and dry. Then size/deprime and trim in the press. then put in dry tumbler for an hour then use pocket uniformer, whatever crud was there will be gone.

Putting 500 308 cases in a wet tumbler is not a problem but 2000 223 takes forever to rinse and seperate and I end up sore from bending over the sink

 

[elfster1234]

There is is a lot to say about padom’s method. James Phillips, and at one time a 600 yard bench rest record holder, and hands down the most amazing shooter behind a rifle I’ve ever seen post targets on the Elfers 100 & 300 yard 6x5 closed group on Facebook (no shit his 300 yard targets blow away most at 100 yards) follows padom’s techniques as described to the T.... makes me want to reconsider my methods but I’m drifting away from doing tons of load development and getting back to basics of just enjoying shooting my rifles after doing little load development. Heck, I don’t even chrono...

Honestly, I got away from stainless for all but cleaning super dirty once fired pistol and semi brass that I buy and want to reload for the first time. The inconsistent seating pressure after SS tumbling resulting in higher SD's and lowering accuracy drove me away from it for my daily cleaning.

I have yet to find accuracy or SD issues with dirty primer pockets that were cleaned in corn cob.. I loved the look of shiny new brass but it means nothing downrange. I now deprime and tumble in corn cob, then size, then tumble again to remove lube. Bullet seating is super consistent since you still have the carbon in the necks and I have achieved my best accuracy and lowest SD's with this method. I SS tumbled for years, but I now only use vibratory tumblers unless like I said I bought a huge batch of 1x LC 5.56, LC 308 or pistol brass from someone. Its generally super nasty so I deprime and SS tumble then its always dry tumbling after that.

SS tumble makes your brass look brand new, but in my experience removed the carbon that allows for consistent seating pressure which is detrimental to my overall goal of lowest SD's and smallest groups.

Just my $0.02

 

[DellaDog]

...

It's a known fact that wet tumbling removes carbon from the case causing unnecessary force for the bullet to be seated compared to a case with carbon left in the neck...believe what voodoo you want, I've wet tumbled for years. It does nothing for you you downrange and can be detrimental in some cases.

I really don't quite get this logic. New brass has no carbon buildup.
Are you saying that the cleaning detergent leaves some kind of residue that affects seating consistency?

 

[padom]

I really don't quite get this logic. New brass has no carbon buildup.
Are you saying that the cleaning detergent leaves some kind of residue that affects seating consistency?

Its not logic its fact. you only shoot new brass once to fire form it to your chamber. This is why most precision shooters don't start load development until they have fireformed new virgin brass to their chamber This is also why virgin brass doesn't have consistent seating pressure. Just ran into this with Virgin Lapua last week.

 

[mdmp5]

My necks always have carbon in there with SS tumbling with the exception of pistol brass.

 

[orkan]

Its not logic its fact. you only shoot new brass once to fire form it to your chamber. This is why most precision shooters don't start load development until they have fireformed new virgin brass to their chamber This is also why virgin brass doesn't have consistent seating pressure. Just ran into this with Virgin Lapua last week.

Unquestionably, factually, and indisputably true.

... yet this very forum is full of people that do not know it because they simply aren't able to load/shoot tight enough to have it show up on the target.

 

[gnatmm]

I reload for large frame semi only. I deprime, SS tumble, FL size, trim, chamfer and debur, then ultrasonic to clean everything, dry in the oven, prime, powder, seat and taper crimp ( God forgive me ) ( sorting stages removed from the list...) and btw what Padom says is more than truth, is word of wisdom. With all due respect and not referring to anyone specifically, Romans said 'margaritas ante porcos'...