Question on Diopter Sights

[eicas]

Been on hiatus since the spring. Work, family, life in general. Finally catching a bit of a breather and back to hobbies!

Picking up where I left off on the K11. Handloads still left to shoot, ordered some GP11 up as well. I do need to do something about the sights however. The idea of the diopter is very intriguing. I am the proud owner of “over age 50 eyes” and wear 2.00 cheaters. Given the options of the diopter or mounting a scope, what would be the consensus? I’ve read that optically, a diopter sight by design alleviates some of the issues involved. Then again, so would a 10x scope...lol. It would be nice to not only try something different with the diopter, but also have a sight more “correct” for the age and era of the rifle.

If anyone has insight on this, I’d appreciate your thoughts....

 

[zfk55sr]

Go here........... https://www.swissproductsusa.com/product-page/k11-diopter-with-front-sight-and-conversion-bushings

Be sure to read the FAQ section at the top right of the opening page for virtually everything you'll need to know about reloading for this particular caliber. I use the Diopers now too as my eyes are approaching 80. I also use the front sight tunnel with the Eagle Eye lens, but not for the magnification aspect. It simply sharpens the target image by quite a bit. The magnification is no more that 1.5 or less, but that sharper image makes all the difference for me.

The Diopter sits dead center to the axis, but if you use a scope on the Diopter mount you'll need to check the FAQ for correct zeroing. It's the same as the M1D Garand.

The attached rendering is the sight picture setup virtually all of us here at SP use for Swiss Rifles as well as for the M1D Garand Sniper.

The offset of the mount is 11/16", so leave it at exactly that POI at 100 yards and it will remain so out to 1,000 yards. No need to zero it on the bullseye. If you do, the POI will change the further out your target is.

If you can tell the difference beyond 200 yards, you're a much better shot than I am, Gunga Dihn.
I also use a fixed IOR Valdada 10 power on my zfk55, but that's an entirely different animal. Whichever scope you choose, remember that the lower and closer to the axis of the bore, the better.

 

[eicas]

Thanks for the info. Still torn on the diopter set up. Pricey, but may be well worth it.

 

[eicas]

Order placed. Pleasure talking with you on the phone. Appreciate the help!

Jim

 

[eicas]

Installed. Easy enough. Certainly a quality product. Is there a rule of thumb on rear aperture eye relief distance? Obviously, moving the diopter fore and aft has the same basic effect of that you get by adjusting the actual diopter...so how does one find a balance? Perhaps I’m missing something.

 

[zfk55sr]

Standby Sarge. I'll be back in a bit. Believe it or not, Ma just called me to dinner.

By the way, before I go, did you get sighting in instructions in your kit?

 

[eicas]

Yes, I did. I apologize if my statement “Perhaps I’m missing something” was misunderstood. What that means is perhaps I’m not understanding the instructions or the process. I’ve done a fairly extensive search on the proper use of diopter sights, and there seems to be minimal information on the subject.

One more question if you don’t mind. How does one remove the diopter lens from the main mechanism if I wish to change or update it?

Thank you again.

 

[zfk55sr]

Please accept my apologies, I have a minor problem with the tractor. If you don't mind I'll be back early morning and answer all of your questions. Thank you for your patience.

 

[eicas]

Tractor first!

At your convenience.

 

[natdscott]

Get as close as you can to the rear aperture without getting hit in the face, or exerting yourself to reach further forward.

Ie: lay your head down on the gun, and bring the aperture as close as you can get it.

...but besides. On that rifle, you can’t get close enough to the rear sight to dent your eyeball.

 

[zfk55sr]

Good morning. Using a diopter correctly is not difficult, but it is just a bit more than the above post. As for the tractor, I should've gone to the obvious source to begin with, the battery terminals. Our 500 yard range runs through the south pasture that is high with Timothy hay this time of year. We cut a 10 foot wide swath through the Timothy to the target backstop. Not too many years ago the horses kept everything in that area eaten down, but with age Ma and I had to let them go after 45 years. When you get to old trim your own horses feet and put up hay, it's time to do things differently.

The front aperture that comes with the diopter kit is a random size, just what happens to be in the aperture bin. It will all depend on the distance to your target as to aperture you use. If you bought the aperture kit then you have a selection. If your target is at the 300 or 400 yard range, you select an aperture that just encircles the target itself. Your rear iris should be no further from your eye than your scope. The objective is to close down the rear iris just enough to leave a small ring around the center of the front aperture and target. This should put you in good alignment for repeatable points of impact.

These K 31 and G11 rifles as issued by the armory in Bern all those years ago are fully capable of minute and 1/2 angle shooting. Many of them are capable of minute of angle shooting. The expected group at 300 yards would be 3 to 3 1/2 inches for five rounds outside mean diameter. These sorts of groups are very common with Swiss competition diopter shooters. That rifle came to you most likely some 80 to 90 years old with sharp lands and grooves. There is a good reason for them arriving in the United States in that condition. The Rockwell hardness of that barrel is a nominal 48. It appears that you have that G11 rifle. That happens to be my go to rifle for long-distance shooting. Mine was purchased in 1959 just before entering the service. I expect that rifle to have the same barrel conditions when my great grandsons taken over.

I wish you good shooting, and please post target photos when you settle in with a comfortable eye relief and good sight picture.
If you need further help or advice, please use the Swiss products USA helpline posted on our website. That will get you to the armory phone where I usually am. My children put me out to pasture in my own pastures some 10 years ago. The Swiss product shop is in town some 40 miles away and they run that while I'm out here in lost Prairie running my mouth.

 

[eicas]

Thanks so much for tour help. See the new post.



Best.

Jim

 

[zfk55sr]

LOL! Old Guy Syndrome. Now I remember you, Jim.
Is there a new post?

P

 

[eicas]

There is now!

Cheers.

 

[zfk55sr]

Thank you sir.

 

[eicas]

I found this blurb on diopters on another forum. Just took a screenshot. It explains things a bit, and helps with the “why, how and what”.

 

[eicas]

Hmm...cant attach files...