Question on hearing protection

H

High_n_Dry

Private
Minuteman
Sep 22, 2020
8
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#1
With my AR, I started getting Tinnitus with my Walker Slim/ear plugs. I figured if I stepped up in quality to the Sordin ear muffs that this would help, however I feel that these were worse in terms of protection. I finally settled on the 3M Peltor X5A and while quite bulky, I feel that these have offered the best hearing protection in combination with ear plugs.

To calculate the actual amount of decibel protection you take the (NRR - 7) / 2. Furthermore, if you double up on with earplugs and muffs you add 5 to the NRR of the highest one.

So in my case, I use the 3M X5A earmuffs which has a NRR of 31 and the Surefire EP10 ear plugs which have a NRR of 30. Calculating the decibel protection, gives (36 - 7) / 2 or 32.5. My question is that the average gunshot db level is 140 and so with hearing protection this drops to 107.5, which is still considered excessive. Are we destined to lose hearing even with hearing protection?
 
#2
You are destined to lose hearing even with hearing protection because hearing depends upon transmission of vibration through the contact of tiny, vulnerable bones in the ear canal. There is contact and motion at the juncture of these bones, and this causes inevitable physical wear of the bones. Once wear occurs it is irreversible except by means of complex and currently experimental surgical intervention. Someday that will become commonplace, but this is not that day.

Hearing is an irreplaceable resource, and care must be taken to ensure its survival. Hearing protection, though not perfect, is an essential asset in our activities, which subject the human hearing system to challenges it was never evolved to sustain. Even in a benign environment, our increased longevity ensures that we will live to see more hearing loss that our early ancestors did.

We do our best, the rest is up to the world around us.

At 74, I can attest that it only takes one slip-up in the discipline necessary to protect ourselves from the auditory challenges of our sport. What loss occurs, is forever.

My hearing survived a fam-fire of the M-82A1 with good hearing pro, plugs and muffs. It was nearly destroyed by one unexpected shot from a ported 12ga about 3 feet from my ear during a hunting activity. I don't hear as well these days, and of all the things I miss, my original good hearing is among the ones I miss most.

Greg
 
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#3
High_n_Dry said:
Are we destined to lose hearing even with hearing protection?
Click to expand...

Hi,

IMO pretty much yes. There is just essentially no way to go through normal day to day life without being subjected to noises that are above "safe" levels.
Every time you double click that vehicle fob to ensure doors are locked and that horn goes off while you are 2 feet from it....hearing damage is done.
Every time you crank up the volume of radio in your vehicle after having a good day at the range...hearing damage is done.
Every time you forget a calendar event type date that your wife feels should not be forgotten...hearing damage is done.
Every time you pass by a construction site, etc etc...hearing damage is done.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#4
Here are some ways loud noises still get through to your inner ear:
  1. Bone transfer (a reason why some people lose hearing even though they wear ear plugs…muffs cover up more bone, but at a certain sound level, sound travels through your skeleton)
  2. Sinuses
  3. Mouth
  4. Eyewear (Rx or otherwise) frames breaking the muff seals. This is a bigger deal than you might think. This is interesting: https://www.amazon.com/FullPro-SoundVision-Eye-Protection/dp/B00IGXWI1M
  5. Ballcaps or other hats that break the earmuff seal
  6. The ear opposite from your shooting side will suffer more (studies show this…due to sound wave destructive interference)
  7. I’m sure there’s more
 
#6
Here’s a study by the CDC in which they found that:
  • safety glasses that broke the seal of the ear muff knocked a muff with 29-32db protection down to 12-18db (p. 10).
  • attenuation is negative below 250hz (p. 9). I do not understand this. It seems they are saying that the broken seal by the glasses increased the db below 250hz within the muff? [note: upon further research I don’t think this is the case]
  • Reduced the effective peak reduction by 20-30db (p. 11). This is a little confusing and perhaps not a helpful metric. I think they are comparing muff + plug to muff + glasses. Help me out here.
(pro tip: search the pdf for the word “glass”)

And here is a 3M primer on how sound gets into your inner ear.
 

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#7
And yet our Government wants to make you jump through the hoops and give them $$$ to run a suppresor. I think, but do not know for sure, that across the pond suppresors are required but not taxed, an over the counter item. Here you have to pay the $$$ and stand in line in order to be able to use one.
That is pants on head stupid to me.
I am 72 and don't want to jump through those hoops nor pay them to take care of me.
At my age the damage is already done and has been so since 1969 and were I to apply for the stamp it might not get here in time for me to use it before I crater.
If our Government really cared about us and our well being all of that bullshit would be gone. Try running your car with the muffler taken off and let me know how that works out for you.
 
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#8
High_n_Dry said:
With my AR, I started getting Tinnitus with my Walker Slim/ear plugs. I figured if I stepped up in quality to the Sordin ear muffs that this would help, however I feel that these were worse in terms of protection. I finally settled on the 3M Peltor X5A and while quite bulky, I feel that these have offered the best hearing protection in combination with ear plugs.

To calculate the actual amount of decibel protection you take the (NRR - 7) / 2. Furthermore, if you double up on with earplugs and muffs you add 5 to the NRR of the highest one.

So in my case, I use the 3M X5A earmuffs which has a NRR of 31 and the Surefire EP10 ear plugs which have a NRR of 30. Calculating the decibel protection, gives (36 - 7) / 2 or 32.5. My question is that the average gunshot db level is 140 and so with hearing protection this drops to 107.5, which is still considered excessive. Are we destined to lose hearing even with hearing protection?
Click to expand...

You rascle, do you want to live forever?

Get a can, and some tampax you will be aight killer....or maybe pick up a different activity like group quilting or something
 
#9
Just use some 3M earplugs. They rock :eek:

Who wore earplugs in theater anyways? Couldn't hear the radio.

Cool things about hearing aids is that you can stream music via Bluetooth, so if that board meeting sucks;);)
 
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#10
I already group quilt, but I need something to do when the other ladies are too busy!

Growing up, we never wore hearing protection while bird hunting or during trap and now I lost all the high frequencies. I just don't want to get to the point where I need to wear a hearing aid.

I went to the audiologist today and got fitted for custom molded ear plugs. They are only a hundred bucks and when they made the mold it seemed much better than any foam plugs. As she said, the foam plugs may have the same rating, but they are assuming a perfect fit which is hard to do. The doc told me that the big thing is to reduce the cumulative trauma during each session. Meaning shoot outdoors, shoot around less people, etc, etc. I think I'm going to stop the indoor range shooting for awhile.
 
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#11
High_n_Dry said:
I already group quilt, but I need something to do when the other ladies are too busy!

Growing up, we never wore hearing protection while bird hunting or during trap and now I lost all the high frequencies. I just don't want to get to the point where I need to wear a hearing aid.

I went to the audiologist today and got fitted for custom molded ear plugs. They are only a hundred bucks and when they made the mold it seemed much better than any foam plugs. As she said, the foam plugs may have the same rating, but they are assuming a perfect fit which is hard to do. The doc told me that the big thing is to reduce the cumulative trauma during each session. Meaning shoot outdoors, shoot around less people, etc, etc. I think I'm going to stop the indoor range shooting for awhile.
Click to expand...

Talk to me about cumulative trauma....

DSC00377.JPG



DSC00385.JPG
 
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#16
Guns don't run at 140db. ok maybe your 22LR rifle, but a ruger mk4 22lr pistol even meters above 150. AR-15 meters well over 160db and some of your larger bolt gun calibers can run over 170db.

So hearing protection is PPE (which in my line of work is described as a last line of defense).
There are environment and engineered protections.
Environment being something like shooting in a concrete tunnel or at a range with a covering vs out in the woods.
Engineering protections would be suppressors. A good one drops the noise that comes out of your rifle by 30-40db.

So take 170 and subtract 30. You are only at 140 if that was with ear protection. If you brought it down 30 with a suppressor, you can bring it down another 30 with ear protection. Now you're at 110 and can be exposed to that noise for longer.
 
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