Rifle Scopes Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

[Moadrifter]

I have a new 338 LM XCR II for long distance shooting in the field from 800 to 1,500 yards. It’s a carry gun for packing around Alaska and Montana mountains so weight is a priority, but I want to get a scope that makes no sacrifices in long distance performance. The primary application is long distance hunting from 600-1,000 yards. The second use is 12-24 inch iron with targets from 800 to 1,700. I practice way more than hunt so longer than 1,000 yards is a priority too. I've purchased many scopes, but until now have always shot mil dots and rarely shoot past 400 yards so we virtually never use turrets. My eyes are fairly good with glasses, but not what they used to be so I need all the help I can get from the scope and will spend what I need to spend.

Here are my application priorities:
(1) best available optical resolution, contrast and clarity - in sun, shade and low light,
(2) turrets: tracking, repeatability, and user friendliness, useful elevation adjustment range of 60 MOA minimum to get the 338 LM out to 1,500 and preferably more so it’s not bottoming out,
(3) lowest weight possible without significant trade-down in optics quality or mechanical quality,
(4) FFP,
(5) reticle performance, accuracy and ease of use,
(6) eye-box tolerance / forgiveness,
(7) MOA/MOA, or Mil/Mil,
(8) minimum useful magnification of 20X and would prefer higher (I know you often can’t use it, but my eyes are getting older and when I can use it I’ll gladly take it),
(9) holds up to abuse from recoil, field mishandling and the elements.

I’m thinking about buying the March F 3-24x42 because it seems to be among the best all around optical/mechanical performance and durability for the least weight. For my next “walk around” build for shooting under about 400 yards, this is the scope. I also really like the FML reticle with the floating dot. This scope sets the weight benchmark at 22.4 ounces – with strong ti rings I can get under 9.5 lbs which is about 50% to 65% of the typical tactical 338 LMs you see. Plenty of elevation adjust. The next step-up in weight for 50mm and a few 56mm scopes adds 9 to 16 ounces. But I’m concerned about the 42mm objective for light gathering, resolution, contrast, clarity and eye-box forgiveness at 1,500 yards. I would rather pack more weight if it means a significant boost in practical field results.

Here are my questions for people who have used the March F 3-24x42mm scope:

How much do you give up in optical performance vs the best 50mm & 56mm scopes?

How do you think the 1,000+ yard optical performance of this scope will compare with the best 50 & 56 mm scopes below?

And here’s a question for everyone:

Are there scopes in the 22-26 ounce range with better optical performance that meet these application needs?

Thanks for reading this and I would appreciate any replies.

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

There's no doubt that a 50-56mm Schmidt will outperform a March in low light and at the higher magnification ranges. You just can't get the same amount of light with a 42mm objective. I love my March scope, but I've had it side by side with S&B, Premier, etc and the light transmission will never be the same. It's barely noticeable on lower magnifications, and in good light, but as soon as you crank up the mag beyond 18X, or the light starts to fade, it becomes very apparent. Also, the March has a thicker reticle, which may or may not be your cup of tea. For what I use it for, the March is perfect, and it saves me a pound over the Schmidt. You have to decide which priority is higher.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

That sounds about right - wishful thinking that you could get close optics for 10-16 oz less. I'll cross this awesome scope off the list for my LM.

That leaves two weight range choices - 31/32 oz and 38/40 oz. At the 32 oz level the remaining options are S&B PM II 3-20x50mm, March FX 5-40x56mm and Razor HD 5-20x50mm. At the 38 oz level are Premier and S&B 5-25x56mm.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

SSamurai,

Does your March have the FML-1 reticle? Is this the one you think is a bit too thick? I can see your point for 1,000 yard situations because the 0.1 mil dot will be 3.6"

Other than the thickness question, I really like the FML-1 because it has all the data I need and no clutter. I don't do too well when I'm trying to count mils in a hold situation (and the re-count to make sure) so the numbers are perfect IMO.

Have you checked out the new March FX 5-40X56mm with the FML-1 reticle? March spent some time figuring out how thick to make the FML-1 in the 5-40 due to concerns about covering long distance targets on 40 power at long range. They ended up with a 0.05mil floating center dot (instead of 0.1 mil) with 0.5 mil square empty box around it. If my calculations are correct, all you see on the target at 1,000 yards is the dot and it only covers 1.8". If you have to hold off/over for a follow up shot without dialing then you are into the reticle lines/bars - but these are also half as thick in mils as the 3-24 (0.04 mil instead of 0.07 mil).

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

I like the reticle, but I've heard lots of people who think it's too thick. I can't consistently shoot <.1 mil, so it's as fine as I need it to be, and it doesn't disappear if I turn the scope down to 3X.
I haven't decided if the 5-40 interests me or not, the 56mm objective should make it pretty competitive with the other high-end stuff, but the .05 knobs kill me.
If it were me I would be looking seriously at the Schmidt 3-20 with H2CMR or MSR. In my opinion the extra objective and magnification aren't worth it, but it depends on how you shoot. I took a chance on the March, as it was a new design when I bought mine, and I got lucky. I've been expecting this thing to break for over a year now, but it just keeps on ticking....

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

double post...

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

SSSamauri - Not a DP IMO. This post asked if the March 3-24 was in the same league as the top 50/56mm optics. When I read your comment on the DP I checked my other posts and this topic was not discussed in the other posts except to reference your assessment from this post. Sorry if I shouldn't have done that. The other posts reference the same rifle and requirements because everything I read says to state these clearly. I don't think it would be helpful to ask a ton of detailed very different questions in one post. In addition, I tried "one big post with a ton of questions" last night and no one answered so I decided the topics need to be more focused - then I started getting really helpful answers like yours

You are one of the few people with March scopes and I really appreciate the information you provided on the 3-24x42 - I dropped this scope as an option for this build as a result of your experience (but may put it on top of one of my short barrel AR10s). Thanks again because I was leaning pretty hard toward this option due to weight and great reviews even through in my head I knew it couldn't keep up for this job, you made it very clear.

March hasn't really broken into this community (as yet at least). It's a new company and has a pretty weak story about why they can only give a 5 year warranty - baloney. Over the years I have worked closely with several Japanese companies and all they have to do is set up a US subsidiary "shell company" and they could give a 1,000 year warranty if they wanted. I think their muddled response and lack of backbone on this issue is really hurting them (as it should!) along with the fact they have not been around like S&B and the others. I like everything I am hearing about the quality of their products though - maybe Kelbly will screw their head on straight about the warranty whining.

I still want to find out more about the March 5-40...

 

[.17Sniper]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

I too was considering the 3-24 for my lightweight 6.5x284. Kelby's only had the 5-40 in stock, and being as impatient as I am, I jumped on it. Haven't regretted it one bit.

The scope has flawless machining and construction. Knobs have very precise, distinctive clicks with no play. To my untrained eyes, the scope has absolutely top-notch glass, comparable to any european manufacturer. To really utilize the top end of the mag range (assuming no mirage!), you need to have pretty favorable lighting, as the image begins to noticeably darken around x30. Also, the eyebox can get a bit finicky towards x40, but by no means makes the scope unusable. No word on durability, as I haven't had it long enough to really give it a good workout. Feels like it could take a pretty good beating, though.

Forgot to mention that the .05 mil clicks take a bit of getting used to.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

.175sniper,

There is not much out there on the March 5-40 so thanks for the post. Getting up to 30X is fine with me and the eyebox issue above 30 due is to be expected given the exit pupil with 40X and 56mm objective. Do you have enough experience with S&B and Premier to compare the March 5-40 at magnification 30X and lower with the top scopes from these brands? Which reticle did you choose and do you like it?

I'm going to do a separate posting with a different title that asks questions about the March 5-40x56 compared to the other high end scopes, so if you want to wait to answer these questions the post should be up tonight.

Thanks again!

 

[tolnep]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

i have the march 5-40 x56.

i was going to buy a s&b pmII 5-25 but was unwilling to wait several months.

i like the march a bunch. i crank it all the way up if the mirage allows. in the center is a tiny dot which makes it very easy, at least for me to see what im aiming at. im shooting at a target for practice that has a small circle about the size of a dime and i can see that, uncovered with this scope at 300 yards.

this is a full size unit, same object as the full sized S&bs so i doubt its saves you any weight over those.

sits on a rem 700 5r 308 milspec 24 inch on badger 20 moa base and badger rings,harris bipod. this is my first precision rifle. shooting 308 fgmm 168 gr after sighting in at 100 i was able to hit the smallest gong (around 6 inches at 300 yards using the mil lines for hold over).

i have shot it out to 500m and 600 yards with good results. the scope is almost as good as a 60x spotting scope for seeing hits.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

Tolnep - great to hear. Your giving me confidence in this scope. I shoot mil dots tons and I have never seen a reticle so close to what I would have custom designed.

Do you experience dimming above 30X? Even if so, 5-30X most of the time with the ability to go to 40 when it's bright but not too hot is better than 5-20 and 5-25.

The March 5-40x56mm weighs about 7 oz less than the S&B 5-25x56mm and 1 oz less than the S&B 3-20x50mm (!).

Rifle sounds good - you should stretch it out, use the turrets with a ballistics calculator and see how it goes. Bet it does great. I have a 22" match stainless barrel on one of my AR10 308s that shoots sub 0.3 MOA at 200 and now that I'm getting into LR I'm going to re-scope it to see what it can do at 1,000+ - might as well once I drag the 338 LM all the way to the ELR range about 2 hours from home

 

[tolnep]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

yes the turret adjustments work perfectly.

on sunday i was at the 300 yd range, set temp, elevation, humidity in shooter with already defined params for fgmm 168, used suggested setting (no wind at the time) dialed it in and hit a quarter sized circle in the middle of the target dead on, first cold bore shot of the day.

as to dimming, none that i notice. all i notice at high or full magnification is mirage if its real hot and it can be a bit slow to get back on target at full magnification though i am improving on that a bunch. dial it back to 20 or so or even less and it works great too. i dont hunt but if i did with this scope, i would run it around 15 to 20 most likely.

march has a great rep with bench shooters and that was one factor in choosing this scope.

as to the mil/mil settings, i like the 'lines' better than the mil-dot. after looking through both type reticles, the mil-dot seems like it would cover a bit of the target.

as to the 338lm, if i had access to over 1000 yds i'd most likely eventually at least try one. but its overkill for any rage within 5 or 6 hours from me (600yd at one of the ranges i belong to, 700+ at one about 2 hours away). next rifle is most like either a 260 remington in either a custom rifle or AI.

 

[TorF]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

I don't know the local law i Alaska for hunting at dusk and dawn but Alaska has the same slow fading of light in the evening and the oposite in the morning as in Scandinavia. The transition from night to daylight and daylight to night takes a long time.

If you are allowed to hunt from you can see/resolve the game in the scope in the morning and until you can not see/resolve the game in the scope in the evening a Henny 3-12x56 or 4-16x56 set at app 10X will give you app 30min more hunting in the morning and 30min more in the evening in a top quality x-xX42 scope.

The standards of hunting scopes in Scandinavia are measured by quality in minutes (at a given date like August 15. when roe deer hunting starts) from the best scope from dusk and dawn hunting. In these side by side tests a Zeiss 3-12x56 Victory ALWAYS win and all other scopes are then measured by how many minutes less hunting time you get if you had the Zeiss on your rifle. This year Zeiss has come up with a new scope, the Victory HT, that trounces all other scopes for low light hunting. Of all the tactical scopes the Henny come closest to to the civilian Zeiss. Just for the record, the Swaro Z6 is outclassed in this scenario and the S&B PMII performs like bottoms of Coke bottles I use S&B.. I have a Victory HT incoming. Any doubters should go to Alaska in August and try this out themselves.

PS: Just make sure your fast focus ring is not stuck by a fixed lens cover for dusk and dawn. The human night vision is -2 "nearsighted" compared to day vision. If the fast focus at "night" is turned -2 compared to daylight setting hunting time is extended by app 10 minutes.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

Tolnep that's cool. Good to hear that you did not notice dimming like .175sniper. The March 5-40 scope is sounding pretty good. You mentioned competition BR shooters using the 5-40, are there some good on line user reviews/discussions you can point to? I could not find much.

Lack of access to a 1,000+ yard range is the same reason I never got into LR/ELP. The local GC I belong to has a ton of ranges but nothing over 100. I just discovered a private non-published range about 2 hours away that has set targets out to 1,000 and space to set up our own out to 1,700

 

[BlueVFRank]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

I have only recently taken posession of my March 3x24x42 and what a great scope. For me the size and weight of the package combined with the excellent glass made it a winning combo on top of my 308.

Looking at your wishlist I would definatley go for the 5-40 I now I will in the future (just don't let my wife read this).

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

TorF it's awesome to learn about the different daylight laws in Scandinavia!. In the state I live in we have time limits before official sunrise and after official sunset so the hunting time changes every day. To be honest, I have never asked what the rules are when hunting in Alaska because none of the guides have ever mentioned it - will need to check before the next trip to make sure I'm in bounds with the regs. I can tell you that we hunt in September and at that time of year it gets dark about as fast as it does in the lower 48 so it's not as big of an issue as it would be in say June through July when we fish until 3 am

I'm going with the bigger magnification ranges (minimum of 20X - prefer more) for the 338 LM since it's dedicated to LR/ELR. At LR/ELR my eyes need the extra help and whenever mirage and lighting will allow I crank it as high as possible. For short and medium range I have a couple of other rifles that will do any job I can come up with - 7mm rem mag Sako 85 Finnlight topped with Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44 (just under 16 oz for scope and build is under 8 lbs and a 460 Weatherby Deluxe with a Swaro Z3 2.5-10x44 (12 oz scope, 11 lbs build).

 

[fireguyty]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

March review

Here is my review of the 3-24, and a picture shooting out to 2130 yards using my DTA in 338 LM.

Weight wise, there is no scope available even close to the March.

Feature and quality wise there are very few scopes at all that measure up. I have looked side by side with S&B, USO and Premier. There are pluses and minuses to each.

Give Ian a call at Kelbly's, you won't regret it.

Ty

 

[tolnep]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadrifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tolnep that's cool. Good to hear that you did not notice dimming like .175sniper. The March 5-40 scope is sounding pretty good. You mentioned competition BR shooters using the 5-40, are there some good on line user reviews/discussions you can point to? I could not find much.

Lack of access to a 1,000+ yard range is the same reason I never got into LR/ELP. The local GC I belong to has a ton of ranges but nothing over 100. I just discovered a private non-published range about 2 hours away that has set targets out to 1,000 and space to set up our own out to 1,700 </div></div>

i am unaware of any benchrest guys using the 5-40. i think this scope was new in january and targeted and the tactical rifle market.

the benchrest guys use other march scopes. march makes an 8-80x. there is a youtube vid of a guy in austrailia using one on a 300 winmag. at the end he shows the view through the scope to the 1000 yard target.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fireguyty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> March review

Here is my review of the 3-24, and a picture shooting out to 2130 yards using my DTA in 338 LM.

Weight wise, there is no scope available even close to the March.

Feature and quality wise there are very few scopes at all that measure up. I have looked side by side with S&B, USO and Premier. There are pluses and minuses to each.

Give Ian a call at Kelbly's, you won't regret it.

Ty </div></div>

Excellent review! I'll give Ian a call to talk about March 3-24 and 5-40. Do you have any experience or opinion on the 5-40? I started another thread that includes 5-40 comparison questions.

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tolnep</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moadrifter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tolnep that's cool. Good to hear that you did not notice dimming like .175sniper. The March 5-40 scope is sounding pretty good. You mentioned competition BR shooters using the 5-40, are there some good on line user reviews/discussions you can point to? I could not find much.

Lack of access to a 1,000+ yard range is the same reason I never got into LR/ELP. The local GC I belong to has a ton of ranges but nothing over 100. I just discovered a private non-published range about 2 hours away that has set targets out to 1,000 and space to set up our own out to 1,700 </div></div>

i am unaware of any benchrest guys using the 5-40. i think this scope was new in january and targeted and the tactical rifle market.

the benchrest guys use other march scopes. march makes an 8-80x. there is a youtube vid of a guy in austrailia using one on a 300 winmag. at the end he shows the view through the scope to the 1000 yard target. </div></div>

8-80 is clearly out of the question for this app, but it's a cool video

 

[Moadrifter]

Re: Question on March F 3-24x42mm For 338 Lapua XCR II

fireguyty, .17Sniper, tolnep,

We have a pretty good thread going on:
Questions On Splitting Hairs With Top ELR Scopes
trying to get some good discussion going on March vs S&B. Check it out if you get a chance - March is not getting much love.