Rifle Scopes Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

[Coloradocop]

Okay, so I'm trying to research rings/mounts online tonight, in an attempt to figure out what I'd like to use to attach my new S&B 3-20x50 scope to my Tikka Scout CTR. Obviously I want decent hardware for this scope! For those of you who don't know this model of Tikka rifle, it comes with a flat picatinny rail that is factory-attached to the rifle with screws, and it also has the typical Tikka dovetail in the receiver.

My rifle is chambered in .308 Win, and I'm estimating that I might need something around a 20MOA base to get to the 1,000+ mark (it'll be close with a flat base). With my old 1-inch scope tube 1,000 yards wasn't happening on the dials, the S&B will probably get me around there on a flat rail, but might need some elevation for guaranteeing such shots with various loads/atmospheres.

Anyway, Randy over at Mile High was recommending that I consider an Accuracy International 18 MOA picatinny mount for this rifle, since the rifle already has a factory installed picatinny rail. But, I can't find any information about the height of these mount/rings. Needless to say, I'm trying to make sure I don't raise the height of this scope too much... it's a big enough scope, and I want it as close to the barrel as I can get it, lest my shooting position suffers.

Anyone know how high this mount places your scope above the rail? I've found the mount for sale in numerous places, but none list the height of the rings.

Alternatively, I suppose I could just remove the flat-base factory Pic rail and add a 20 MOA rail in its place, then attach the scope to this rail with conventional rings. The downer on this is that I have recently heard a rumor that the factory picatinny rail is held on with some serious locktite, and might be a real beast to remove. No idea if that is true or not.

Anyway, just trying to get some ideas for this setup, if you guys have any. And, particularly, I'm trying to figure out how tall these AI mounts are:


http://shop.milehighshooting.com/Accurac...8MOA-AI3108.htm

Thanks for the help!

 

[dieselten]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

The AI mount is approx 1.3". You could probably get away with Seekins or TPS super lows at approx. .920-.930 but it might be tight. I would just pick a ring at or just under 1.0" and you could use it on most any rifle. I think you will be fine with a flat rail. Any load that you would want to shoot at 1000 will only need about 35 moa maximum, probably less.

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

I took the factory base off, and installed a 25MOA rail from NEAR...

NEAR Base

and use NightForce Rings( medium). I've been very pleased with the combo. NEAR makes great stuff, and the NightForce rings are top flight!

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselten</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The AI mount is approx 1.3". You could probably get away with Seekins or TPS super lows at approx. .920-.930 but it might be tight. I would just pick a ring at or just under 1.0" and you could use it on most any rifle. I think you will be fine with a flat rail. Any load that you would want to shoot at 1000 will only need about 35 moa maximum, probably less. </div></div>

Thanks for the specs on that mount. I still need to measure to see what kind of ring clearance I'll need on this gun, but having a ballpark starting place sure helps. Couldn't really even begin to figure whether the AI mount would be a good idea without knowing the height.

I'm using TPS rings currently on my Weaver scope, but wasn't sure if they were a good choice (or not) when stepping up to something like the S&B. I've also heard good things about Seekins, but have never used their rings.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Fennell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took the factory base off, and installed a 25MOA rail from NEAR...

NEAR Base

and use NightForce Rings( medium). I've been very pleased with the combo. NEAR makes great stuff, and the NightForce rings are top flight! </div></div>

Are you using a Tikka as well? If so, how hard was it to get the factory base off? Someone this week described needing to use a torch on the receiver to break the locktite bond. Not sure how I feel about that, and I'm also not sure if that was just someone's isolated experience...

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

Yup,
Mine is also a TIKKA T3 CTR/308. The factory base is screwed, pinned, and does some some loctite like bonding agent. A little heat and it came right off.

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Fennell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup,
Mine is also a TIKKA T3 CTR/308. The factory base is screwed, pinned, and does some some loctite like bonding agent. A little heat and it came right off. </div></div>

Have both a Sako TRG and a Scout CTR. Well long story short I switch from the factory rail on my TRG to add a Near Mfg rail and I had a bitch of a time getting the factory rail off even using heat. Needless to say after the experience I've no desire to remove the Tikka rail lest it be attached with the same type of epoxy/loctite/"whatever the F" it is used to secure the rail.

Regardless on the above though I will vouche for the Near products. The guy is extremely helpful and his product I received was top notch.

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jchapman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will Fennell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yup,
Mine is also a TIKKA T3 CTR/308. The factory base is screwed, pinned, and does some some loctite like bonding agent. A little heat and it came right off. </div></div>

Have both a Sako TRG and a Scout CTR. Well long story short I switch from the factory rail on my TRG to add a Near Mfg rail and I had a bitch of a time getting the factory rail off even using heat. Needless to say after the experience I've no desire to remove the Tikka rail lest it be attached with the same type of epoxy/loctite/"whatever the F" it is used to secure the rail.

Regardless on the above though I will vouche for the Near products. The guy is extremely helpful and his product I received was top notch. </div></div>

Your story is similar to what I had previously heard. I mean, I don't want to allow a stuck-on rail to hold me back from the correct rail setup for the distances I'm shooting, but I don't want to jack anything up trying to remove the old mount either.

In that way the integrated 18moa AI mount/rings do seem to have an advantage, since it can quickly mount to the original picatinny rail, but they might raise the scope a bit higher than I was wanting.

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

http://www.spuhr.com/Spuhr%20Catalog.pdf

Look at first picture.
No picatinny, looks good

lots of oppertunities.....
So why consider a picatinnymount?

(Yes its a tikka T3varmint on the picture)

Håkan

Ps. A good reason to avoid picatinnyrails on T3 is apart from adding unneccesary parts also adds 10mm/.40" to the height.....

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.spuhr.com/Spuhr%20Catalog.pdf

Look at first picture.
No picatinny, looks good

lots of oppertunities.....
So why consider a picatinnymount?

(Yes its a tikka T3varmint on the picture)

Håkan

Ps. A good reason to avoid picatinnyrails on T3 is apart from adding unneccesary parts also adds 10mm/.40" to the height..... </div></div>

Yes, your Spuhr mounts do look VERY nice, and I also agree with you on both of your points about not adding too many pieces to the mounting equation, or too much height to the mount. I have always believed that the less number of parts you have interacting, the stronger the mount will be. I also believe that the greatest scope in the world is of very little use if you can't develop a consistent shooting position on the rifle due to mounting the scope ridiculously high (mounting to the integrated receiver rail does seem like the best option for reducing that effect).

I must admit that despite the very apparent quality of Spuhr products, these mounts are a bit on the outer edge of my current budget. Nevertheless, they are certainly tempting, and are obviously still being considered by me.

One of my friends is sponsored by you guys, and was featured in the catalog you linked me to. I believe he's quite happy with his current setup, and I'm always glad to see some of us Colorado folks mixing it up with innovative products!

Anyway, if I were to choose one of the mounting option you mentioned, would I be looking at the ST-4701 mount for my rifle, or something else? I see the ST-4701 mount is listed as the TRG mount, and those rifles do have a somewhat similar pedigree to the Tikka rifles (okay, perhaps it is more proper to say that the Tikka is a poor man's TRG, but still). In other words, do the Sako TRG and Tikka T3 rifles use the same size dovetail rail, and the same Spuhr mount?

If I go with the Spuhr mounting option I'd definitely want to pick the correct mount for the job!

Thank you for your advice, and for taking the time to respond!

 

[jrob300]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

EGW HD 20 moa base (this one is recut to 30 moa and double pinned to the receiver) and Seekins rings.

Simple, robust... what's not to like?

And yes, Tikka did start loctiting those base screws. First rifle's were not. This one was. As stated, a brief hit with a torch and they back right out.

John

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EGW HD 20 moa base (this one is recut to 30 moa and double pinned to the receiver) and Seekins rings.


Simple, robust... what's not to like?

And yes, Tikka did start loctiting those base screws. First rifle's were not. This one was. As stated, a brief hit with a torch and they back right out.

John </div></div>

Would using a hand torch with MAPP gas be enough torch, too much torch, or just right for this process? Heating my receiver does concern me a little bit, having never taken a torch to a gun before in the past.

Also, did you loctite the new base into your rifle, and what grade of loctite did you use if you did?

Nice looking rifle, btw.

 

[MB4810]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

The first question I would ask myself is how long would I keep the Tikka? Is it worth investing in a Spuhr ST-4701 mounting system? Since it will only work with trg and tikka dovetail.
If the answer is for long term commitment, than yes get the ST-4701, if not, you are better served with the AI 18 MOA picatinny style mount which you can move later on another custom rifle with a regular picatinny rail.

The way I see it you have 3 options:

First one: keep the original picatinny rail buy the AI 18 MOA base and a karsten cheek piece to adjust the height or make your own out of kydex.

Second one: if you are going through the trouble of removing the original rail get the ST-4701 and don't look back. It comes with a recoil lug for trg ,scope leveling tool and the actual bubble level, it's 24MOA and is 1.38" in height (get the one with yellow level) keep in mind the dovetail exclusivity.

Third one: remove the original rail, instal a new rail with a 18-24 MOA cant and buy new low or medium high rings according to your scope size.Price wise I think it will come close to a spuhr ST-4701 but with more headaches.

I hope this helps you with your decision.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

I used a propane torch with a pencil head. I would be concerned about using MAPP. It's a lot hotter. The propane was easy to control...

John

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

T3and TRG uses same rail, only differance is recoillugplacement and ejectionportplacement.
The mount you see on My pics is The ST4701.

Due to a designerror on the T3 the ejectionport sits to high, so I Have opened it up by 1/10 " down.

Håkan

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MB4810AP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first question I would ask myself is how long would I keep the Tikka? Is it worth investing in a Spuhr ST-4701 mounting system? Since it will only work with trg and tikka dovetail.
If the answer is for long term commitment, than yes get the ST-4701, if not, you are better served with the AI 18 MOA picatinny style mount which you can move later on another custom rifle with a regular picatinny rail.

The way I see it you have 3 options:

First one: keep the original picatinny rail buy the AI 18 MOA base and a karsten cheek piece to adjust the height or make your own out of kydex.

Second one: if you are going through the trouble of removing the original rail get the ST-4701 and don't look back. It comes with a recoil lug for trg ,scope leveling tool and the actual bubble level, it's 24MOA and is 1.38" in height (get the one with yellow level) keep in mind the dovetail exclusivity.

Third one: remove the original rail, instal a new rail with a 18-24 MOA cant and buy new low or medium high rings according to your scope size.Price wise I think it will come close to a spuhr ST-4701 but with more headaches.

I hope this helps you with your decision.


</div></div>

You do bring up one of the more important issues I'm debating: how long the Tikka will serve as my primary long-range precision rifle.

I'm upgrading piece-by-piece at this point, as my budget allows (like so many of us). I must admit, the Tikka shoots like a laser for the price, but it still isn't a TRG, an AI, or any one of the great custom guns out there. That's part of the issue that has me grappling over mounting options. The Spuhr mount would probably be a no-brainer on a higher end rifle, but might prove to be overkill for me on the Tikka, especially if I later end up buying a higher end rifle for primary precision use.

My plan for the Tikka if (or when) I replace it with a nicer rifle is to put it back into service as a hunting rifle. At that time it would probably regain use of the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10x scope it is currently wearing. That's a 1-inch tubed scope, so any mount I'm buying for the S&B would either end up moving to the new rifle with the good scope, or end up being sold because I had nowhere to use it.

The thing about the Karsten cheek piece that I'm not sure about is whether or not it could be added onto the rifle as it currently is. The Tikka Scout CTR rifle I have has a raised (but fixed) cheek piece on it already. Maybe it will be high enough as is, but I'll have to play around with it to find out. I'm not sure an adjustable add-on like the Karsten would fit this stock, but I still might be able to build up the current cheek piece if the scope ended up a little bit on the high side.

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

To me the T3 is a TRG.
Espesially since I put it in a TRG chassis.
Its made in the same machines and the same factory as the TRG....
The Accuracy is the same. I do also Have a TRG trigger on it.

So to me the 6,5x55 T3 is the Perfect "littlesister" to my TRG .338.
And I cannot see the quality differance betwen the T3 action and barrel from the TRG.....

That said, put the T3 in a good chassisystem and I cannot really se how a more expensive system should serve you better.

Håkan

 

[MB4810]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

"The Spuhr mount would probably be a no-brainer on a higher end rifle, but might prove to be overkill for me on the Tikka"

not by much: ST-4701 $410
: NEAR base 175+S&H& Seeking Rings$150 = 325
: NEAR base 175+S&H &Badger Rings $200 =375
with the prices that I found there is less than $100 difference give and take. This is for what I consider a decent setup.
Don't forget you do have an "overkill" $3000+ scope (congrats) on your $1000 Tikka.

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MB4810AP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "The Spuhr mount would probably be a no-brainer on a higher end rifle, but might prove to be overkill for me on the Tikka"

not by much: ST-4701 $410
: NEAR base 175+S&H& Seeking Rings$150 = 325
: NEAR base 175+S&H &Badger Rings $200 =375
with the prices that I found there is less than $100 difference give and take. This is for what I consider a decent setup.
Don't forget you do have an "overkill" $3000+ scope (congrats) on your $1000 Tikka.

</div></div>

Lol, at least I'm not the only one who noticed that I have a scope that is worth about 4 times what I paid for the rifle. You make a good point when looking at some of the better bases. I'd previously only found a base for the Tikka from EGW. I don't know how their bases are, but they're in the $70 range. I'd always figured rings would come from somewhere like Badger or Seekins. But, if I go with a NEAR base, I'm adding another $100, and coming quite close to the price of a Spuhr mount.

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">T3and TRG uses same rail, only differance is recoillugplacement and ejectionportplacement.
The mount you see on My pics is The ST4701.

Due to a designerror on the T3 the ejectionport sits to high, so I Have opened it up by 1/10 " down.

Håkan </div></div>

Okay, glad to know I've identified the correct mount for the job. But, if the recoil lugs are in a different place on the T3 (compared to the TRG), how would that affect me when trying to place this mount on the T3?

I know Mile High sells your mounts, so I'll probably get a chance to take a closer look at them when I head up there. But, I'm just trying to figure out how everything will come together (I've always been mounted to a Picatinny rail in the past with conventional rings, so I'm entering new territory here).

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

UPDATE:

Got the S&B mounted up at Mile High Shooting Accessories yesterday (thanks to Randy and Adam for all of their help).

I ended up going with the Spuhr (4601) Picatinny mount. I had debated going with the dovetail setup, as Håkan had recommended, but went with the Picatinny rail mount for two reasons:

1) A picatinny mount is much more transferrable to the other rifles that I currently have, or might get in the future. In that way I was thinking of MB4810AP's advice, and remembering that this scope/mount will probably always follow my best rifle around for the foreseeable future.

2) Everyone I talked to locally complained of lots of trouble with removing the factory-mounted Picatinny rail from these Tikka rifles, and I didn't really want to screw around with stripping screws, etc. That wasn't the major deciding factor, but it was a push in that direction.

The reasons I chose the Spuhr mount specifically were as follows:

1) Good reputation for a solidly built mount from members here on the 'hide, and shooters I know locally.

2) The price didn't end up looking too bad once I considered the alternative of going with a new rail/rings, or going with the more basic AI mount, and then having it machined to accommodate the clearance needed for the S&B scope I was using.

3) The mount is modular in the sense that I can add accessories to it such as a red dot or (more likely) an angle cosine indicator.

4) The mount comes with a built in level, which is nice. I missed someone's advice to go with the yellow level (didn't realize there was an option, and ended up with the white one). Hopefully the white level does okay for me; I'd have opted for yellow had I noticed the choice originally.


Overall I like the look of this setup. It appears very solid, and looks like it should be easy to move to any other precision rifle I might acquire in the future.

The scope ended up being mounted just a smidge higher than I was hoping for, but I kind of figured that problem would manifest itself when moving from a small 1-inch tube scope to a burly scope with a 34 mm tube. The objective end of the scope ended up clearing the barrel by about 0.35" at the narrowest spot, with my scope caps clearing the barrel by around 0.2-0.25". I guess I could have moved the mount a bit closer by going with the dovetail, but again, that would limit my use on this mount to just the Tikka or a TRG. <span style="font-weight: bold">Anyone think that current clearance is going to be a problem? I do know my last scope sat a bit closer to the barrel...</span>

Here are a couple pictures of the finished product (hopefully they post okay):

Anyway, THANKS to all of you who took the time to provide some advice in this thread!

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

Colorady cop

Thanks for the choise!
I am only using white levels and find them so much easyer to see than the yellew green ones.


Håkan

 

[Coloradocop]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spuhr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Colorady cop

Thanks for the choise!
I am only using white levels and find them so much easyer to see than the yellew green ones.


Håkan </div></div>

You're welcome, and thanks for contributing to the thread. Other work duties have kept me tied up this week, but I'm hoping to go out and zero the new scope on Sunday or Monday. I really look forward to trying this setup, and the mount looks very impressive... I think I have a few more friends already saving up to get one on their own guns.

Interesting to hear about your experience with the white level. I'll try running it as is for a few weeks, and see how the white works out for me. For some reason it intuitively seems like the yellow/green would be easier to see, but real world performance often delivers different results. Perhaps the white is the way to go after all!

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Question on mounting S&B to Tikka Scout CTR

As soon as there is low light, or shooting from shadow and out where it's lighter, the white is easyer to see as I see it.

Håkan