Questions on Precision Upper Build

[PBWalsh]

Hello,

Due to the recent introduction of the Razor G3, I've decided to shift my AR build from a 16" lead burner to more of a hybrid precision rifle. In doing so, I will be building my upper. Upper components will be:

Vltor MUR upper
Toolcraft BCG
Geissele ACH
Geissele Mk4 handguard (already have this)
A2 flash hider (cheap and I'll get a SF Warcomp when I can afford a suppressor)
BCM gas block and someone's gas tube (I desire a fixed gas block, don't see a reason to go adjustable here)
#1 barrel choice right now is an Aero Precision18" .223W fluted barrel (28oz) with a rifle length gas system

Purpose of build: Carbine/DMR courses, range fun, minor hunting role, estimated 4-5,000 round count per year. Trying to keep it light without sacrificing too much repeatable accuracy. Primary load will be a 77 SMK factory load until I get some components in. Heavily favoring the Hornady 73 ELD-M if it'll shoot well in the rifle. Looking for mechanical accuracy to be repeatably sub-MOA.

My questions are:

1. Is the Geissele reaction rod worth it for building the complete upper and if not please suggest an alternative. Also looking at the Magpul BEV block.
2. The AP barrel does not come with the gas block area dimpled per customer service chat. How critical is a dimpled barrel? Any cons to dimpling at home with an SLR jig and a steady hand? AP stated dimpling their barrel will void warranty though, so I'm not sure if I should factor that in. Will a set screwed gas block on a non-dimpled barrel hold up to hard(ish) usage?
3. I am also considering going with the WOA 18" 3-gun 1.9 barrel with their intermediate gas tube. Any thoughts on this barrel compared to the AP? My big negative is the WOA is 4.9oz heavier. I am open to other barrel suggestions (must be 16-20", sub 32oz).
4. Any glaring issues with the current parts list I should be made aware of before buying? If so, please do offer suggestions as this is my first precision(ish) AR and I want to do it right the first time.

Calling @padom and @bigjake83, y'all seem to build these well.

I appreciate everyone's help in this, hope to be building in February.

 

[Sincerd]

You can dimple a barrel easy with a good drill bit. Dont get a cheap one trust me.

 

[Sincerd]

Bev blocks are great. Do you need the extra barrel length? I've never been sorry going shorter

 

[Precision Underground]

You can get an extension bar that is not Geissele for a lot cheaper. I can't remember which one I got but it was 1/2 the price and worked fine. It's the safest way to torque on a rifle for sure and the only tool I will use now. Ask me why lol.

 

[Sincerd]

Why? Bend an upper? Bev block engages lugs

 

[Precision Underground]

Why? Bend an upper? Bev block engages lugs

Yea bev block is fine that's the same thing in a different shape. I was answering his question on if the Geissele was worth it.

 

[Sincerd]

Oh yea. Gotta get something for barrel nuts and MDs

 

[ChitownCopper]

Clamp on is better for precision. Dimple screw puts upward pressure right in a focused area.

 

[digitalshooter]

Is the Geissele Reaction Rod worth it? Not sure now that there are options becoming available at half the cost.

Dimpling a barrel shouldn't be too hard to do especially with the SLR dimpling jig (but then again I had a local gunsmith screw it up) But like was said just be sure to use a good drill bit and don't drill to far into the barrel. Can't really blame them for not wanting to dimple the barrel for you since the spacing isn't consistant amoung the gas block brans for some reason. So make sure that you get the spacing correct or you'll just be using the front dimple and set screw. And I wouldn't worry about any accuracy issues. I've used set screw gas block with no issues with accuracy.

Look up the Kley Zion barrel spline tool for an alternative to the Geissele Reaction Rod.

 

[rpoL98]

might want to also look at Criterion barrels, since you're emphasizing the precision aspect. WOA is GTG. I think the Faxon heavy-fluted match series meets your weight constraints.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

My questions are:

1. Is the Geissele reaction rod worth it for building the complete upper and if not please suggest an alternative. Also looking at the Magpul BEV block.
2. The AP barrel does not come with the gas block area dimpled per customer service chat. How critical is a dimpled barrel? Any cons to dimpling at home with an SLR jig and a steady hand? AP stated dimpling their barrel will void warranty though, so I'm not sure if I should factor that in. Will a set screwed gas block on a non-dimpled barrel hold up to hard(ish) usage?
3. I am also considering going with the WOA 18" 3-gun 1.9 barrel with their intermediate gas tube. Any thoughts on this barrel compared to the AP? My big negative is the WOA is 4.9oz heavier. I am open to other barrel suggestions (must be 16-20", sub 32oz).
4. Any glaring issues with the current parts list I should be made aware of before buying? If so, please do offer suggestions as this is my first precision(ish) AR and I want to do it right the first time.

1. Brownells makes one that costs half of the Geissele (maybe less than half) and worth great. Definitely worth it. It's undoubtedly the best way to hold the upper while torching barrel nuts, installed/removing muzzle devices, and so forth. I mount mine in a barrel vise and it works great.

2. I wouldn't worry about dimpled and just use a clamp on.

3. I wouldn't use either of those barrels for your primary uses. 18" is too long for a run n gun rifle IMO, 16" is the longest I'd go. 10.5"-11.5" is my preference. I definitely wouldn't do a SS barrel though, you're going to eat through a barrel a year or better, especially a SS barrel doing classes. That thing is going to get torched. I'd go with a super high quality chrome lined barrel. LMT, BCM, FN, DD, or maybe even the new Geissele would be my picks, in that order. They'll all be accurate (probably even more so than that Aero) and they'll hold up to abusive firing schedules.

4. It seems like you're trying to build a Recce type rifle. They're handi but IMO function best as CQB/DMR rifles than getting into a precision/SPR role. That 1-10 is going to suck ass if you're going to be trying to use it for precision work, yes 10x is enough, but that exit pupil isn't going to be if you're going to stay in the top end a lot. That scope is going to be much better suited for using low mag most of the time with the ability to have 10x when you need it.



It seems to me like you want both, so I'd build both. An SPR with a 3-12/15/18 or 4-16 is a handy rifle to have in the safe and fun to shoot. I'd do a SPR in your flavor, and then do a CQB gun with a 1-6/8/10. You'd be surprised what you can hit with a short barrel. My 10.5" LMT MRP had a NF 1-4 on it first and then a 1-4 Elcan both of which had BDC's that didn't even match up to my ammo and I had no problem hitting IPSC steel out to 600 yards with it. Then it got a NX8 1-8 which made it even more precise and had good turrets to dial, but I didn't like the scope. Now I've got a Razor 1-6 sitting here that has been sitting here for 2 months while I wait for Geissele to deliver the mount. I think that will be a good compromise and it doesn't have any of the attributes that I didn't like about the others. Hopefully the 1-10 is the same way.

 

[PBWalsh]

Ok, seems like I can dimple if need be. Looking at clamp on blocks as well. Any appreciable difference in a set screw vs. clamp?

I’m looking at the Razor 3 because I will be using 1x probably 70-75% of the time and at 8-10x 25-30% of the time. I like the fact I can dial with it as well and if the 1-6 is any indication, the R3 will stand up to more abuse than it’ll realistically see with me.

The primary reason to go 18” is I gain a rifle length gas tube which in theory, produces a smoother shooting rifle. This I doubt I’ll be able to notice. I'll be running an A5 length buffer tube if that matters.

My primary CQB/burner AR will be a 10.5-11.5” pistol, RDS/Mini ACOG/P4Xi, etc. So this Reece/SPR/Utility rifle is to be a primary “do all” rifle with an edge towards repeatable accuracy.

Like what I’m seeing with Faxon. To be honest, my original idea was a simple BCM ELW 16” complete factory upper. The BCM has a 21oz barrel. The reason I am steering away from BCM is because their barrels seem to be consistently 1.5 - 2 MOA and the ELW profile will not lend itself to consistent, accurate fire.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You can do a 16" barrel with an intermediate gas system and will net the same smooth shooting gun, you can make Pistol's/SBR's shoot smooth too.

Two AR's with LPVO's and just different barrels is pretty redundant to me. You could set it up as an SPR with a offset red dot and it's not going to be any slower with the same 18" gun with a 1x and you have a rifle with an optic much more capable at distance. A 10.5"-11.5" with a LPVO and a an SPR with a 3-18 is a sweet combo.

BTW, Midway has VLTOR MUR-1A blems for a little over $150 right now.

 

[Sincerd]

I really like them lmt enhanced bcg

14.5 middy is about as long as I would go

 

[bigjake83]

Hello,

Due to the recent introduction of the Razor G3, I've decided to shift my AR build from a 16" lead burner to more of a hybrid precision rifle. In doing so, I will be building my upper. Upper components will be:

Vltor MUR upper
Toolcraft BCG
Geissele ACH
Geissele Mk4 handguard (already have this)
A2 flash hider (cheap and I'll get a SF Warcomp when I can afford a suppressor)
BCM gas block and someone's gas tube (I desire a fixed gas block, don't see a reason to go adjustable here)
#1 barrel choice right now is an Aero Precision18" .223W fluted barrel (28oz) with a rifle length gas system

Purpose of build: Carbine/DMR courses, range fun, minor hunting role, estimated 4-5,000 round count per year. Trying to keep it light without sacrificing too much repeatable accuracy. Primary load will be a 77 SMK factory load until I get some components in. Heavily favoring the Hornady 73 ELD-M if it'll shoot well in the rifle. Looking for mechanical accuracy to be repeatably sub-MOA.

My questions are:

1. Is the Geissele reaction rod worth it for building the complete upper and if not please suggest an alternative. Also looking at the Magpul BEV block.
2. The AP barrel does not come with the gas block area dimpled per customer service chat. How critical is a dimpled barrel? Any cons to dimpling at home with an SLR jig and a steady hand? AP stated dimpling their barrel will void warranty though, so I'm not sure if I should factor that in. Will a set screwed gas block on a non-dimpled barrel hold up to hard(ish) usage?
3. I am also considering going with the WOA 18" 3-gun 1.9 barrel with their intermediate gas tube. Any thoughts on this barrel compared to the AP? My big negative is the WOA is 4.9oz heavier. I am open to other barrel suggestions (must be 16-20", sub 32oz).
4. Any glaring issues with the current parts list I should be made aware of before buying? If so, please do offer suggestions as this is my first precision(ish) AR and I want to do it right the first time.

Calling @padom and @bigjake83, y'all seem to build these well.

I appreciate everyone's help in this, hope to be building in February.

Sorry I'm late to the party, or you looking for a Precision rig or something that can handle a high rate of fire??? Because those two things generally don't go well together.

I do agree with the above opinions below, I would look elsewhere for your barrel choices if you want something that can handle high round counts look at a BCM barrel.

 

[PBWalsh]

@bigjake83

Mainly high rate of fire that can pull a bit of precision jobs as well. Also, I wish to maintain accuracy after a few quick shots.

Based on the feedback thus far, I’m considering the Faxon 16” heavy fluted nitride/melonite barrel or the Criterion 16” hybrid chrome lined or melonite barrel. Either will be a mid-length gas tube.

Whet ahead and am going to replace my carbine buffer with an A5 and throw the carbine on the mentioned pistol build.

Debating on switching the Geissele SD-3G for a Larue 2 stage trigger. Going to test my ability on the SD-3G first though. I’ll have to look at my split times and trigger feel on the Geissele before looking at the Larue.

Speaking of the Criterion, they have an option to get a matched headspaced BCM bolt with the barrel. Is this option worth it over a standard (Toolcraft) BCG?

 

[MontanaMan]

Speaking of the Criterion, they have an option to get a matched headspaced BCM bolt with the barrel. Is this option worth it over a standard (Toolcraft) BCG?

Probably not worth it for what you are attempting to do; I never seen a barrel/extension - bolt combination from good suppliers that had headspace more than about .002-3" over minimum.

I also agree with most all of what the redneck said...............I've have good accuracy from FN chrome lined barrels & I'm sure the Criterion would be at least as good, but probably a little more $$$.

As Jake said, areal precision rifle & what you describe that you want is not exactly the same.

MM