Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

[Awesymoto]

(The aluminum and brass buckles)
Thought i've seen them before, the buckles that everyone wanted to replace their FASTEX buckles with... on the TAB pro sling

Turns out I have, they are on our ballistic vehicle fuel tank covers that we had to install last month. I thought they were grand at the time and almost hopped on the bandwagon.
well ...
Quick side note: These buckles probably work great in the states but out here in Afghanistan they are a pain in the ass. I today in the interest of SH decided to go mess with them. My observations are as follow:

1. New they are slick rick and appear very strong yet not as fast to connect as fastex buckles, and do not provide as much surface area to Quickly release. They are not as intuitive as you must push not to the center (as with almost any nylon buckle) but center and down (or in or whatever orientation your holding it)
2. When exposed to moon dust, you can forget it. They freeze up and become a major PITA to pinch the two locks together to release the buckle
3. Some Marines decided to resolve this issue with a Leatherman... Upon further inspection scarring on the male buckle prevented further future insertion into the female part. Immediately "this is why we can't have nice crap" ran into my head.

conclusion: I'm sure its a great product, but if your looking to bring it out here i'd rather just own a couple extra fastex buckles. Water cleaned most of them out, but if anybody has ever tried to open a pintle hook out here on a MRAP or 7ton, some turned into this situation. They opened upon further persuasion via a hammer. Nothing against TAB or the buckle manufacture. Nobody can predict what will happen to equipment out here, and I blame nobody, however I thought you guys may like to know this.

 

[Triad]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

You talking about these:

From the website:

"All Cobra products are tested and certified by highly respected independent /3rd party test houses and exceed Mil Spec guidelines for dust / sand / salt water as well as CE, CSA, ANSI, and NFPA standards."

You must have been issued the wrong kind of dust and sand

Hang in there Marine, thanks for your service.

 

[cluebat]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

I could be wrong, I thought maybe he was talking about the ITW MASH Hooks?

 

[AED146]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

I am sure the guys/gals at TAB will fix the problem

 

[Awesymoto]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

Triad: that is correct, those are the buckles.
Yes I'm sure TAB will, what is gained in strength was sacrificed in reliability, and speed.

Quick note: the Moon dust sand as I was informed while learning about some stuff... Is physically different on the microscopic level than Sand, even very fine sand in the United States. Its flat, US sand is round and jaggedy. The flat particles will bond together and bind vice move around out of the way. Moon dust stacks like legos essentially. Nobodies fault as some multi million dollar research was done to prove this into why some of our equipment was breaking.

Cheers

 

[Tburkes]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

I don't know what to fix.

If you don't like the Fastex buckles because they're plastic and you don't like the Cobra's because "moon dust" clogs them up, then the only thing I can suggest is to use one of our slings that have no buckles at all.

However, this is the first instance since we've started offering our slings with Cobra buckles that I've heard anyone anywhere having any trouble of any kind with them.

I know that Cobra buckles are used in several different applications with the armed services all over the world.. I would think that if this were a regularly occurring problem that it would have been addressed before.

I'll be forwarding this link to my North American Cobra buckle distributor to see what they have to say about the concerns voiced here.

I'll post the results of the exchange here.

 

[CMonty256]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

I had seen them before too... They're used on the new "Air Warrior" Survival Vests. Used it 12 months in the desert of Egypt with no problems at all.

 

[mclevela]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

I think it should be noted the application that is referred to here.

Quite different than being incorporated into a rifle sling.

 

[Awesymoto]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mclevela</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it should be noted the application that is referred to here.

Quite different than being incorporated into a rifle sling. </div></div>

True. The vehicles are constantly exposed to moon dust and never get cleaned.. but either does my plate carrier with fastex, and that never jams. If your a gunner in a turret, or are on the deck in the prone your shit will become this dirty.

It should be noted though that FASTEX buckles have been used for years in Iraq and Afghanistan, and are used in weight bearing equipment clips on flaks, I have my past 2 deployments only broken 1 buckle. Will the metal ones break? prob not, but when skootin and bootin around on the deck will they jam? maybe. Do you wish to have your shit jam around you when your trying to get your rifle off after rolling over into a canal in Marjah? I for one do not.

Note: I'm not a Cobra buckle expert, however I just wanted to point this out to anybody who may consider this sling before going downrange.

and Tburkes I have no problem with fastex, or cobra's, just wanted to point some stuff out. I still am oldschool FASTEX lover

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

It's the name of the game.

Shit gets fucked up in the field.


and........a Marine can break almost anything. A Marine with a leatherman CAN break anything.

 

[Awesymoto]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

Lonewolf. Its a proven fact.... Marines can even break leathermans hahha

 

[The Colonel]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

A marine could break a stainless steel ball!

 

[edwin907]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

A real Marine has two stainless steel balls!

I have to admitt, the Fastex buckles are a lot better now, use one that is oversized and there seems to be little chance of it breaking even after years of service in artic temperatures. That said, I have lost at least one piece of expensive equipment due to buckle breakage, but my fault not to replace an undersized fastener that was near the end of it's expected service life.

Clearly, the tighter tolerance aluminum buckles will suffer much quicker from contamination, like an AK vs an AR.
Learn to work with what you have got, and always remember the proper tool for the application.

 

[AustriAlpin]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

Hi members,
A word from the manufacturer:
Cobra buckles are certified to rigorous 810F Mil Spec guidelines for Blowing Dust and Sand (510.4). A copy of this report can be downloaded here:

http://www.austrialpin.net/products/cobra/documents/R37997-1SandandDustBlowingDust_000.pdf


As with all pieces of precision hardware, basic maintenance is of great value to any hardware's performance. With some simple care, Cobras will never fail to operate correctly in the field - Afghantistan or USA. Among other things, the Cobras were designed with a "flush" port at the back side of the female half thus allowing (with minimum air or water) the removal of any dust or other particulate buildup. No other load bearing buckles have this feature. You wouldn't think twice to clear your rifle of dust buildup and it shouldn't be any different for a piece of LIFE SAVING HARDWARE. Cobras are not just buckles (like a Fastex) - they are precision milled, extreme load bearing quick connects. As such, they need to be treated like any piece of safety equipment - not negligently as with a plastic snap.

The particular 'dusty' application refered to by Awesymoto is a blast / ballistic shield for undercarriage fuel tanks. Needless to say, after thousands of miles they are exposed to all matter of dust and hell. It should be common sense to any user that they get washed after a certain term of active service. Furthermore, the application requires a closure which can withstand the blast forces generated by an IED etc. Suffice to say, plastic Fastex buckles don't perform up to this extreme- not much does. So, you have a tradeoff for your PITA of having to perform some very minor maintenance when in dock....re: a live soldier who did NOT burn to death because his vehicle's fuel tank didn't rupture and burst into flame - thanks in large part to a cobra buckle that didn't incinerate or shatter into fifty thousand pieces. Seems like a pretty good trade off and maybe one Awesymoto should consider before degrading the hardware thereto.

Finally, in reference to the TAB rifle slings... Not sure how the two topics (fuel tanks vs slings) even relate but to cast any bias against the TAB product is ridiculous, at best. Afterall, it's a pretty sure bet that any sniper or rifleman who's taking proper care of his weapon won't fail to clean the sling attached to it. really....

Anyway, to all serviceman and forces, thanks and keep up the great work!

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustriAlpin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Afterall, it's a pretty sure bet that any sniper or rifleman who's taking proper care of his weapon won't fail to clean the sling attached to it.
</div></div> I think that says it, and any dust over here that can cause a buckle to fail will likely down the rifle first.

I see this as a complete non-issue.

 

[Tburkes]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

Thanks a lot ladies and gentlemen at AustriAlpin. Your thoughts at the end of your post were mine exactly but I wanted your official response before making those same observations.

 

[AED146]

Re: Quick note about the super Al buckles on TAB sling

i read the report very well said