Maybe clean it , like, you know, with a rag. Seems I heard about someone else doing that a while back.They could delete the data and all it’s backups.
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Maybe clean it , like, you know, with a rag. Seems I heard about someone else doing that a while back.They could delete the data and all it’s backups.
You think a firearm business won’t be targeted by the IRS in any way they possibly can be?
That’s cute. And foolishly optimistic. Think Lois Lerner…
Holy fuck, do you ever sober up and read the shit you post and feel really stupid ?No
You have all the records from your merchant processor to prove what came in, you do NOT need to keep every single detail of what they bought
The only reason they keep that data is to try to sell you more shit via annoying spam emails, every time I get one I always hit unsubscribe, but worse than keeping my data to pester me all too often that personal data is weaponized by gov or private sector, or just get leaked.
Holy fuck, do you ever sober up and read the shit you post and feel really stupid ?
This is my question.
They sold a hunk of metal. All data should be deleted within a few weeks of shipment, only delay being to insure customers got product they actually ordered.
As soon as they were approached with a lawsuit, they simply let the daily delete run and by discovery they have zero records.
"Oops, didn't know we had to change our sales operation" is a hell of a lot better look to a judge and jury than "I just deleted everything, fuck you!"
Retailers keep records as a 'customer service' because they know that retaining receipts is an art in and of itself. Does anyone remember having to show a receipt before being able to return or exchange an item at a store? I can barely get home with a receipt, let alone file it somewhere. What the retailers need is an "opt out" for record retention with a disclaimer that no return/exchange can be honored without proof of purchase.
I'm not saying they don't what I'm saying is should a company that sells something relatively controversial keep detailed records of these things when not legally required to do so. RA did, fuck'em.
To add on to this, if you don't think that Midway, Brownells, Euro Optic, Mile High, (insert your favorite vendor here) wouldn't do the exact same thing that Rainer did, I've got ocean front property for sale...It is completely fucking normal for businesses to keep detailed records of purchases for the purpose of facilitating returns, refunds, warranties, and recalls. Midway does it, so does Brownells, as does Mile High, Euro Optic, and virtually every other online vendor in every industry. This is not new or abnormal, and failing to maintain these records would be a customer service nightmare for all involved. Imagine how many threads we'd see here and on Reddit and Arf.com if Ranier didn't do this. Sure, they could come up with boilerplate terms and conditions that basically say "keep records of your purchase or else you're screwed", but that'd just change the specifics of the online shitshorms.
Maintaining these records for all "normal" purchases but not for 80% receivers would have basically been an admission of guilt. I'm pretty sure I know how my attorney would react if I sent that idea up the flagpole.
There are also the obligations put in places by payment processors.
A better idea would have been to not break NYC laws. I'm guessing that Ranier already has mechanisms in place to prevent illegal shipment of things like standard-capacity magazines, and so there's really not much excuse for this failure.
These threads make it all too clear who understands the most basic business and legal concepts, and those who fling poop from the sidelines.
A gun that is untraceable. No serial numbers, no records,no 4473, completely off the books. So when you buy one of these online with a cc it is no longer a "ghost gun".Define ghost gun?
Its a gun that goes oooo ooo ooooOOOOoooo oooo" when you pull the trigger. And, you can't see them unless they are wearing a bed sheet.Define ghost gun?
It is completely fucking normal for businesses to keep detailed records of purchases for the purpose of facilitating returns, refunds, warranties, and recalls. Midway does it, so does Brownells, as does Mile High, Euro Optic, and virtually every other online vendor in every industry. This is not new or abnormal, and failing to maintain these records would be a customer service nightmare for all involved. Imagine how many threads we'd see here and on Reddit and Arf.com if Ranier didn't do this. Sure, they could come up with boilerplate terms and conditions that basically say "keep records of your purchase or else you're screwed", but that'd just change the specifics of the online shitshorms.
Maintaining these records for all "normal" purchases but not for 80% receivers would have basically been an admission of guilt. I'm pretty sure I know how my attorney would react if I sent that idea up the flagpole.
There are also the obligations put in places by payment processors.
A better idea would have been to not break NYC laws. I'm guessing that Ranier already has mechanisms in place to prevent illegal shipment of things like standard-capacity magazines, and so there's really not much excuse for this failure.
These threads make it all too clear who understands the most basic business and legal concepts, and those who fling poop from the sidelines.
Yes they are required to keep those records both by the payment processors and the tax authorities.
If you don't agree, try doing it your way, let me know how long you last when the chargebacks and the tax audits come in.
That is not possible unless they essentially wanted to give away everything for free and go broke in a hurry.
The moment people find out you are doing that, they will be waiting a month and then calling up their credit card companies and disputing the charge and demanding they get it back for free. Just look at how many folks on SH have as an automatic reaction "well just call your credit card and charge it back"
Sorry but that kind of thing means folks have to keep very good records of orders and delivery for over a year at least.
The price you pay for that "protection" everyone loves so much on their credit cards (in addition to the 3% national sales tax you pay to the banks).
Nice idea but NOPE it will NOT work. Assholes will simply still charge it back to their credit card companies, credit card companies will say, tough luck, you are losing your shirt and if you don't like it go try suing each lying cheating stealing thieving customer in small claims court in their local city...
Nope that's the price you pay for all this "consumer protection" that everyone demanded. Just about nothing you buy from a business with any traceable / retractable payment, can't be tracked down if needed.
Check a box, I agree to have this transaction deleted and accept by doing so XYZ
Jeebuz, the seller/vendor is going to do whatever they have to do to stay inside of the lines with the revenuers and the .gov entities. The vendors care very little about the "well being" of their customers, when contrasted against trying to stay in business and out from under the microscope of .gov. Vendors are trying to keep their businesses alive. The surest way of getting shut down (and losing not only your livelihood, but possibly everything) is to run afoul of .gov. One or two pissed off customers isn't going to amount to dick.It's pointless trying to argue it with you since it doesn't sound like you actually have lots of experience with how distance selling and payment processor disputes work.
Your great ideas about click here to accept XYZ pretty much is meaningless unless you are willing to sue the customer to enforce it.
There is the way you think the world should work.
Then there is how those who do such things for a living know how the world actually works.
It's pointless trying to argue it with you since it doesn't sound like you actually have lots of experience with how distance selling and payment processor disputes work.
Your great ideas about click here to accept XYZ pretty much is meaningless unless you are willing to sue the customer to enforce it.
There is the way you think the world should work.
Then there is how those who do such things for a living know how the world actually works.
To add on to this, if you don't think that Midway, Brownells, Euro Optic, Mile High, (insert your favorite vendor here) wouldn't do the exact same thing that Rainer did, I've got ocean front property for sale...
And this has nothing to do with a company's stance on 2A or any other chest-beating. If you get a subpoena to produce documents, you can produce those documents, or attempt to quash the subpoena, or you can get hauled in front of the judge for contempt of court. None of these are great options, but one is less painful (and less expensive) than the others.
Anyone with information is asked to call Detective Hoffman at 213-833-3700.Not to be out done by NYC
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Hundreds of ‘ghost guns’ and unserialized parts seized, 2 arrested in multi-city task force search: LAPD
Two men have been arrested and hundreds of unserialized firearms and gun components were seized in a pair of Thursday morning searches conducted by multiple law-enforcement agencies. Warrants were …ktla.com
I get you have tons of experience, that’s why I asked for you to state the law code or a link to it, where it says sellers need to keep a detailed record of the exact items the person bought
Great way to avoid it all is
“we didnt keep those records, we were not legally required to keep such records, we have nothing to produce”
Once again, they would retain records for normal business reasons i.e. dealing with customer returns and all the other usual bullshit that comes with retail sales.
I'm reasonably certain that buying 80% receivers from a major retailer via the Internet using a credit card is an IQ test. "I don't want anyone to know that I own a gun." Stop right there, because you've already failed.
Just like how the ATF doesn’t keep records of 4473s, right?There are retailers who don’t keep those records or will delete if asked, 80% arms being one
Just like how the ATF doesn’t keep records of 4473s, right?
Can you link me to the law of keeping records of exact non regulated items sold?
Check a box, I agree to have this transaction deleted and accept by doing so XYZ
Per the IRS they can show the money coming in, taxes collected to items sold, that’s that
Do you know how long a business is required to keep their sales records for the IRS?I get you have tons of experience, that’s why I asked for you to state the law code or a link to it, where it says sellers need to keep a detailed record of the exact items the person bought
Do you know how long a business is required to keep their sales records for the IRS?
What do you think they do with all those records? Those sales records are stored for seven years. The ATF lawyer says they are going to screw you and they want your sales records for the last two years. Guess what they are going to give the lawyer from the ATF? Hint: Every sales receipt for the last two years. On that receipt is the customer name, items bought, price, tax, shipping address and type of payment.
Do you think that any company would throw those records out and pray that they don't get audited by the IRS? Those records better match their tax return or they are fucked. Why do you think that the democraps have been after Trump's tax returns since day one?
Ever wonder why those people are walking around Lowe's, home Depot, Walmart and other businesses counting the product on the shelves? Do you think that the company wants to pay for that? It's required to keep track of the inventory for the IRS.So if you have the merchant processing records, shows X money came in from Johnny Smith, you have a record you collected the gave the fed for the sales tax, what else do they need
Key words in your post. "I don't think".I don’t think the IRS cares about your inventory if you’re selling trinkets, they just want their sales and income tax, if you can prove you gave them the income tax based on what you brought in, that’s that
Good luck with that.
Ask any commercial business accountant what is required. I bet a quick www. Search will confirm what I said.
Key words in your post. "I don't think".
You have bought stuff online with a credit card, yes? What info was on the receipt sent with the product? Do you think that is the only copy?
How are you going to prove that you are reporting accurate financial numbers?
I could go on and on about what it takes to keep a businesses finance books, inventory and sales all in order but why? You think you have it figured out. You are wrong. You think that a personal audit by the IRS sucks? Try one on for a corporation or private business.
Go ahead and explain to us how a company can keep a second invoice.
Joe Citizen
1234 No Where St.
Bumfuck USA 123456
Ordered
1 piece of inventory
Shipped
1 piece of inventory
Paid CC # 1234 56 7890
$69
Bwaaaahahaha. The IRS auditor will probably give you a choice of hotels to stay at.
I guess your search bar doesn't work.If you represent yourself and do your own taxes maybe
X came in retail, X sales tax collected, done
Merchant, Jo F paid $X, sales tax collected, sales tax paid to IRS (who shouldn’t exist)
XX income, income tax paid
Done
The IRS does not need to know the exact item they bought shy of it having a different tax rate
You will have to quote my post so they can see it to confirm it though.Let me guess you also talk to the police?
Gee, I wonder why accountants exist?
Why do you think that the IRS is now getting pay pal, Venmo and the others to report?
I guess your search bar doesn't work.
Either look it up or don't. I am done. 28 years in business and I could have saved myself a ton of money doing it your way.
SMH
I guess you don't know my reputation here. Ask any of the badges here. There maybe one of them that doesn't have me on ignore and I bet everyone of them has hit the report button because I hurt their feels.
You will have to quote my post so they can see it to confirm it though.
Search bar is your friendMan 28 years and you can’t even post a link to these obvious rules you state exist?
God bless the American economy
You can drive without a license if you claim sovereign citizen. They have a pamphlet on how to answer the questions when the cop stops your car without a plate on it. When he asks for your license, registration and insurance just tell him that you are freely traveling. It works, I swear, I saw it on YouTube. Judges know that you don't need that shit either. I can't believe so many haven't done this.
Search bar is your friend
You coming back onto the reservation anytime soon?
What law states I need to feel records of the exact detailed items in a sale?
You got 28 years in the industry, you got to have that quote and verse, you’re a pro right?
On your next order ask them to do that for you.
Here's a great idea.
On your next purchase have it sent to a friend that is out of state. Then go pick it up there. They can't track it that way.
I don’t think the IRS cares about your inventory if you’re selling trinkets, they just want their sales and income tax, if you can prove you gave them the income tax based on what you brought in, that’s that
Generally, if you produce, purchase, or sell merchandise in your business, you must keep an inventory and use an accrual method for purchases and sales of merchandise.
So they rolled over on their own. They can suck a dick.
I'm one of the defendants in the lawsuit. The others are Rainier Arms, Arm or Ally, 80P Builder, and Rock Slide USA, who all turned over customer data to New York City law enforcement.The story I have heard is the lawyers told Rainier to go ahead and do this on the grounds that if the case wasn't settled the next step in the lawsuit would allow 'discovery' which would include all of this information anyway.
So if they refused and said no, then the lawsuit goes on and 'discovery' would have happened in the coming weeks anyway where they would have been required to hand everything over in either situation.
Wayfair.You got that ADHD shit?
What law states I need to keep records of the exact detailed items in a sale?
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Let the Federal judge issue the order. If that is the law then follow the law. Turning into a gutless fuck and rolling over like a bitch at the mere prospect of someone following the law is just stupid. When they go to court and get a judge to rule in their favor then you can comply with no problem.
What law states I need to keep records of the exact detailed items in a sale?
I don’t know why they keep these damn records like this, there has to be a way to still keep what they need to spam you without a record of non 4473 things you bought
Lone wolf is also VERY bad at their extensive non required record keeping, when asked about it you’d think Hillary was their manager
Does the e-commerce platform tell you to give up without a ruling from a judge?Every online store needs an e-commerce platform (Bigcommerce, Shopify, Squarespace, etc.). That's where I load products for the public to see and purchase. It accepts your payment and collects all your data (including IP address) to create your invoice. I can delete and edit almost everything on the backend except your order. It does not provide that option.
If you need screenshots from my control panel for better understanding, let me know.