Rangefinders with Ballistics Built In

[Woolsocks]

I’m toying with the idea of rangefinding binos, and whether the versions with built-in ballistic calculators are worth having. I’m thinking they are not, based on a conversation I just had with Sig Sauer. Per the rep:

1. You can enter field-verified dope info into the app, which would adjust the calculations to be more accurate. So if the binos tell you to adjust 4 mils at 500 yards, but when you shoot its hitting 8 inches high, you can enter that info in the app, and it’ll adjust.
2. The caveat is that all it does is adjust your velocity. You cannot enter your actual field-tested dope into the app (as in, tell it what your actual adjustments should be)
3. The program has a “1 moa tolerance” so the app may not update anything if the data you enter doesn’t change the trajectory more than 1 moa.

Based on this, I don’t see a point in having a dope software built into the binos. A piece of paper taped to the stock with actual filed-verified dope is going to be much more accurate than a calculated dope that I can’t override. Using the onboard ballistics calculations would be just like trusting a ballistics chart you print offline without doing any field verification.

Have others had different real-world experiences?

 

[NiteQwill]

It uses an AB engine so using MV truing or Drop Scale Factor makes this entirely a non-issue.

Modern LRF like Sig Kilos, Vector X, etc are worth their weight in gold if you decide you need that feature.

 

[Woolsocks]

It uses an AB engine so using MV truing or Drop Scale Factor makes this entirely a non-issue.

Modern LRF like Sig Kilos, Vector X, etc are worth their weight in gold if you decide you need that feature.

so, I believe what I describe above is MV trueing - I enter the actual point of impact at some distance (say 800 yards, my max shooting distance) and it adjusts the assumed muzzle velocity to match.

My issue is that I can’t imagine this creates a perfectly calculated trajectory for all distances between 100-800 yards. It seems like every gun/optic setup is unique (not as simple as “distance of crosshairs above the bore”), different bullets have different shapes (not as simple as BC). So calculations are always a best guess that needs to be verified by shooting at incremental distances up to your max range. Am I wrong? Would you trust a shot at 500 yards, if you’d only shot 800 yards and trued the MV based on that?

 

[NiteQwill]

so, I believe what I describe above is MV trueing - I enter the actual point of impact at some distance (say 800 yards, my max shooting distance) and it adjusts the assumed muzzle velocity to match.

My issue is that I can’t imagine this creates a perfectly calculated trajectory for all distances between 100-800 yards. It seems like every gun/optic setup is unique (not as simple as “distance of crosshairs above the bore”), different bullets have different shapes (not as simple as BC). So calculations are always a best guess that needs to be verified by shooting at incremental distances up to your max range. Am I wrong? Would you trust a shot at 500 yards, if you’d only shot 800 yards and trued the MV based on that?

That's the point of MV truing.

I true my MV at or near transonic range. Then all the dope is fine for any ranges from me to the target. AB does its mathematical calculation to adapt/predict any targets within the shootable distance.

That's the beauty of it.

For example, since I compete... I true at 1125 yards. I have never missed a shot within that distance that wasn't my own fault, not the fault of the calculator.

In other words, you will be fine using the AB engine.

 

[Woolsocks]

Well, I’ll be. Now I’m going to go watch a bunch of YouTube videos.

thanks for convincing me to buy a new toy

 

[Natestreo]

PRSTF with great prices for Black Friday on the Vector X … if you’re looking to spend some money today

 

[Woolsocks]

PRSTF with great prices for Black Friday on the Vector X … if you’re looking to spend some money today

lol. I’m between the vortex fury 5000 for $699 or sig kilo hdx for $799. That’s a lot of money for some of us…

 

[Woolsocks]

Watched a YouTube video from barbor creek “trueing ballistic coefficient or velocity”. It looks like trueing BC is more accurate than velocity. I have a Labradar, so seems like it’s easy enough to tweak BC. I’m assuming you can do that in the sig app, will call sig to confirm.

 

[NiteQwill]

No, please don't. IMHO

 

[Woolsocks]

Called Sig. sounds like you cannot true BC in their app. Just MV.

 

[NiteQwill]

I really think you're overthinking this.

Just true your MV, use DSF, whatever... It will 99.999% get you on target.

 

[Burdy]

I'm no expert, but I true velocity at 600, and then adjust BC at 800-1000. My apps/binos then read properly at every 100 yard increment from 100-1000.

 

[Rangemaster]

Get the 3500.com from leica, save yourself a bunch of money. they connect to your kestrel super easy and will update super fast. I had all the binos with AB and they really do suck. Most people use the 5700 kestrel for dope and this is by far the best option. Bino’s you have to write shit down. Just remember that.

 

[Burdy]

Get the 3500.com from leica, save yourself a bunch of money. they connect to your kestrel super easy and will update super fast. I had all the binos with AB and they really do suck. Most people use the 5700 kestrel for dope and this is by far the best option. Bino’s you have to write shit down. Just remember that.

Not sure I follow. I use the Swaro EL Ranges, built in atmospherics and calculator. It gives me the yardage and DOPE, not sure how it gets any more simple.
I do have a kestrel, that I sync to 4DOF, just to confirm, but in the field, all I need is the binos the vast majority of the time, unless the distance/conditions need a precise wind call, then I have the kestrel synced to the 4DOF to check against my bino reading.