Group Buys RAPTAR group buy

[wigwamitus]

I've been in touch with a defense contractor and Wilcox distributor who is willing to support a group buy for the RAPTAR ES rifle mountable laser range finders.

The options in the rifle mountable laser range finder space are few and far between. For US units that we can buy, the Silencer Co Radius is the low end option and the Wilcox RAPTARs are the high end option.

The Radius has been discontinued. Wilcox is still making RAPTARs.

I have both and like both.

And the Radius is still available as a used unit, but if you want the next step up in ruggedness, reliability and performance, the RAPTAR eye-safe military unit is the next step up.

As far as pricing, the pricing will be under cost. Please PM me and I will share pricing and payment information.

We will keep the group buy open until 28 May and units will ship on 4 June.


A big plus of the RAPTAR is that its ranging laser is 1550nm frequency. The Radius ranging laser is down in the NV visible spectrum. The spec sheet does not specifiy exactly, but I can definitely see the ranging laser pattern for the Radius with a PVS-14. The Radius is probably 905nm as that is a standard.

Why is 1550nm a plus ? The answer might surprise you, it surprised me !

The reason starts with the fact with lasers over 1400nm will not penetrate the cornea , even at significantly higher power. Hence the 1550nm ranging laser is eye safe. This enables the military units to boost the power of these ranging lasers WAY up. Per Nick Vitalbo, "1550nm can emit more than 10 times the energy safely than 905nm systems. The result is an increase in the range capability of the laser range finder while maintaining eye safety." It is true that the lower frequency 905nm lasers have better performance with water in the air, but that is more than offset by the greater power of the military 1550nm lasers.

Here are test results from "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting V2":

References:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/08/26/extreme-long-range-tips-spotting-shots-ranging/

Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting: Volume I

store.appliedballisticsllc.com

Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting: Volume II

store.appliedballisticsllc.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263472962_Comparison_of_905_nm_and_1550_nm_semiconductor_laser_rangefinders'_performance_deterioration_due_to_adverse_environmental_conditions

 

[SkyScrapin]

Following.

In for 2 or 3 units depending on price.

These are going to look good hanging off of my AIs and thermal rifles ?

 

[wigwamitus]

Current Pricing on Wilcox units

The "S" model with the ballistics module is currently shown price of $7,200 on Optics Planet

https://www.opticsplanet.com/wilcox-ratar-s-rangefinder-w-eye-safe-ir-laser.html

Whereas the "ES" model has shown price of $4,639 on OP

https://shop.opticsplanet.com/prg-defense-raptar-es-rapid-targeting-module-laser-sight.html

"ES" model shown price as high as $8,000 at one site !
https://tnvc.com/shop/wilcox-raptar-es-class1-infrared-laser/

Winning Team in 3SFG 2016 USASOC Sniper Competition used RAPTAR ES model, as shown on this pair of Larue's with L&S Mk6 3-18x T3 scopes.

http://soldiersystems.net/2016/04/26/usasoc-sniper-comp-winners-used-wilcox-raptar/

 

[wigwamitus]

What can you DO with a RAPTAR ??
Idea 101: Mount at 9 o'clock on a Sphur ISMS mount in conjunction with a PVS-9a SIMRAD !!!

 

[wigwamitus]

What can you do with a RAPTAR ? Attach it to your thermal monocular, zero the LRF to the center of the monocular reticle and whah lah you have yourself a thermal_range finder !!!

==

So far we have six bids for the RAPTAR ES model and 15 people have asked me about pricing. We are not quite yet a day and a half into the group buy, so these are definitely good numbers. Thanks to all for participating !!

 

[wigwamitus]

Went out in the rain Tuesday and tried to see how far I could get with the RAPTAR in the day time in the rain. 1,373 yds was the answer. And this was a solid rain, not a Noah's rain ... but a solid, pounding rain.

There were no man made objects to range ... hills and tree lines from 5,300 down to 1,800 with no joy ... but under 1,400 I started getting lots of successful ranging attempts.

I'll try to go out as much as I can in the day for the next few weeks and see how far I can get. I usually use these range finders at night. But will try them in the day to see what they can do.

 

[wigwamitus]

At the end of day two, we have 7 bids and 19 pricing queries. Thx for participating !

 

[wigwamitus]

Today, light rain, was able to get twice the distance.

Ranging off side of the "divide" which is a ridge separating our two main creek systems in this county ... which runs N/S ... about a mile and a half West of us. The top of that ridge is about 1450 ft ... and in the pic I am standing on 1300. And the divide rises fairly quickly near the top and I am facing due West, so pretty much a 90 degree angle in both vertical and horizontal planes.

Here is a chart which shows conditions/circumstances which increase ranging capability versus those which reduce.

So today, compared with prior attempt, we had less water in the air and a sharper angle on the terrain. There is a lack of man made objects around here to range off.

I will keep trying to see how far I can get in the day.

 

[RTH1800]

Sending email.
Thanks for doing this Joe.

 

[onetopgun]

Wig, PM sent

OneTopGUN

 

[texasleftychef]

Pm sent as well. Can anyone shed some light into how it mounts?

 

[wigwamitus]

How it mounts ?? Sure.

Several manufacturers make purpose built RAPTAR mounts. I have the Sphurs and the Badgers. LaRue also makes one. The RAPTARs come with a TOP screw that screws down into a hole on the purpose built mounts

Alternatively, there is a little flat rail section included (sorry no pic of that) which the RAPTAR can screw into and then that pic rail section can grab onto any regular pic rail.

That's how the older ones mount. The newer ones come with a little pic rail grabber section screwed and glued onto the bottom. So the top screw method isn't needed for the newer ones.

The RAPTARs in the group buy do use the top screw method.

Here's a pic of the RAPTAR mount with no RAPTAR on it, on top of the Spuhr ISMS mount.

==
And here it is with the RAPTAR on there:

 

[deersniper]

Tag. Should not have bought so much stuff lately

 

[wigwamitus]

You can always sell some - easy come easy go !!?? I guess I realize now, I am always buying and always selling

 

[wigwamitus]

Update at end of Day Three (0600 Central Time this morning). I have had 28 PM Pricing Queries so far and we have commits to buy 9 units so far. We have exactly three weeks remaining before the payment dead line arrive (25 May). And the ship date again, will be 4 June. Thanks for participating !!!

 

[wigwamitus]

If you want a MOLLE pouch to go with your new RAPTAR, these will work great.

https://www.amazon.com/CONDOR-EMT-P...=p_89:CONDOR&rnid=2528832011&s=gateway&sr=8-3

And at $19.50 they won't break the bank.

 

[deersniper]

So may 25 is the opt in deadline?

 

[wigwamitus]

If you want a ballistics solver to go with your new RAPTAR, the Kestrel 5700 Applied Ballistics will get the job done.

https://www.amazon.com/Kestrel-Weat...tics&qid=1556970471&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull

Applied Ballistics will just get you the most accurate solution out there. With the aero dynamic jump modeled in and the G7 model, it is dead on if you key in your other data accurately and do your job as a shooter. And without that aero dyamic jump ... you are gonna get some misses, especially further out !

Now, you don't absolutely need the LINK. You could get the USB cable instead. The free app is nice to enable downloading of updates and it provides a easier to use interface to key in your gun data. But it is not required. But if you are looking to save some money you can get the 5700 AB without LINK and get the usb cable instead.

 

[wigwamitus]

... So may 25 is the opt in deadline? ...

Yes but it is also the "we must receive your funds by then" deadline. And we are not using p@yp@l ... up until the dead line you could still cancel, even if we have your money, but if we do not have your money (checks cleared etc.) by the 25th then we cannot order you a unit, in which case ALL funds received will be returned.

 

[deersniper]

Wait. No ballistic solver? Meh il stick with the clunky radius.

 

[wigwamitus]

Right, these are the ES model (see data sheet in the first post). The S/ES models are separately available from this distributor, but the Group Buy is for the ES model.

For comparison purposes I posted a link (way above) to the Optics Planet listing for the S/ES model with shown price of $7,200 ...

 

[wigwamitus]

If you want to mount your kestrel on the side of your gun, that can be done. Then if you are using your new RAPTAR ES with your new Kestrel, you can obtain your firing solution from AB on your kestrel without coming out from behind the gun.

https://kestrelinstruments.com/badger-ordenance-k5-kestrel-mount

 

[wigwamitus]

Took the Bravo bolt gun and RAPTAR up on signal hill to see how far I could range today ... as usual started at features 5,300 yds away and worked my way down. Since I've ranged everything around me at night ... a lot of stuff is known distance ... finally got a hit at 1736 yds (1587 meters).

Ranged it a bunch of times to make sure it was repeatable. It was a corral and bunk feeder setup. Empty. But I kept at it and finally got a return off a galvanized tin shed at 4000yds. Now I'm skeptical of big round numbers when ranging, so I ranged on it some more ... and got a lot of 4001 and 4000 returns, so I finally believed it. But I wouldn't count on that result. With as much sun as I was facing today, I think the 1736 number is more likely.

 

[wigwamitus]

I have had pricing queries from 59 different people so far and we have 22 commits to buy so far. Thanks for the participation !!!

 

[GUNNER75]

PM in route

 

[wigwamitus]

Went back up on signal hill again this afternoon ... was able to range the same two objects as last time in similar conditions ... corral and feeders at 1734yds ... and galvanized tin shed roof at 4005yds. Conditions are partly cloudy 75F, light breeze from East. I did forget my phone cam but the images would've been very similar.

 

[AIAW]

Been lurking this thread a little... I know all of the laser modes are all aligned. How are you dealing with the offset between close ranging and far ranging (day optic reticle co-alignment)?

I suppose something like 30 MOA of rail declination wouldn't be an issue with these either?

 

[wigwamitus]

You are aligning the range finder to the day scope reticle at a set distance (for me that's the 100yds zero). So that's one reason the top mount is good, it minimizes the offset versus 9 o'clock fore rail mounting.

But the basic idea is to parallel // infinity zero ... then you preserve that same offset across the full distance. And if it matters, you act accordingly.

My six active scopes include 4 with T3 reticles. Once those are zeroed at 100yds I never have to dial unless I'm shooting over 1000yds ... then I dial up 5 mils and my wind dots are halved. But under 1000yds no need to dial up to shoot and then dial back down to range. Hold for all shots.

The other two active scopes are mil-hash and are also zeroed at 100yds but you have to dial back to the zero stop in order to range.

 

[AIAW]

Makes sense, thanks! That’s sort of what I was envisioning how you were setup there.

 

[Machinist-Mills]

Guys I did a review of the raptar ES.. Joe suggested I share it in this thread so here goes!

Glad prg hook you up, you should do a vs radius maybe

 

[Machinist-Mills]

It's better but I have Swarovski rangefinder binoculars and it's a system that works for me. I have sold off the others because if I'm out I take the swaro. But glad to hear that working out for you.

 

[wigwamitus]

We are now up to 68 pricing queries and 22 buy commits. That's to everyone for participating !!

 

[wigwamitus]

As to bino range finders versus rifle mounted range finders ... I have both ... use both ... like both ...

My bino range finders are Zeiss 10x45 ... so slightly older model ... I've gotten out to 1400yds with them this week, during a partly cloudy day. That beat the Radius which only got to 1045yds that day. The RAPTAR got to 1730yds on a steel corral and feeder setup and 4005 on a galvanized tin roof.

A plus of the rifle mounted solutions is they are already on a stable platform. If you're using them prone, you have a stable platform and via the rifle scope a significant amount of magnification to use. These two factors enable highly accurate aiming of the range finder at small, distant targets.

The plus of the bino LRF is it is light and handy. I can whip them out quickly and get a useable/shootable range out to 1100yds very reliably, further sometimes. But for accurately ranging small targets another tripod is useful and that is more weight and bulk carried to the field.

I live in a hilly area along a creek and there is a lot of vegetation and often I am ranging THRU tree lines. With the RAPTAR and Radius, I can do this. This RAPTAR and Radius will show multiple distances and some of these might be the tree line in front of the target I am ranging and others might be the target I am ranging. By having all these distances quickly available I can sort out the actual distance to the target. And again ,with the stability of magnification added in, I can also possibly range thru a small gap in the tree line and hit the target directly.

And the rifle mounted range finders are easy to use at night as well, as I just mount a thermal or NV clipon in front of the day scope and I can range at night. Putting a 14 behind the binos would be possible, but I haven't done it yet though if it is do-able with the Night Optics day/night adapter for one barrel I have the gear to do it. I should try that.

One thing I like about the Zeiss binos is they have a 3x multiplier which I can attach to the rear of one of the bino barrels and that gives me a net 30x magnification on that barrel. So essentially I brought my spotting scope to the field for the weight/size cost of a tiny 3x multiplier. I usually use it on the left barrel, leaving the right barrel at 10x to be used with the LRF. That gives me both a spotter and range finder side by side. Which I can mount on a tripod to give a stable platform.

Zeiss with 3x multiplier on left barrel, on 2 different tripod mounts

==

Another plus of the rifle mounted range finders, is they can also be mounted on a thermal monocular:

That sort of setup provides a thermal range finder ... and those can get expensive otherwise ... $80k shown price !!??

https://willsoptics.com/product/bae-utb-x-lrf/

 

[STI 45]

I'm in for at least one. Maybe 2 or 3 depending on final price.

 

[Pseudohero]

in for at least one if below cost.

 

[Machinist-Mills]

I'm down if the price is right, I'll start putting away the girls favorite candy bars.

 

[Evolution 9]

The wife and I discussed this for a day and a half. She said no. I told Wig yes.

Hope one of you guys has a spare bedroom.

 

[Bravo6niner]

Put me down for one. PM sent

 

[Machinist-Mills]

Were finding out the price of each before we commit correct?

 

[Evolution 9]

PM Wigwamitus. He can explain the pricing situation and get you on the list.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yes, per this blurb in initial post in this thread !!!

... As far as pricing, the pricing will be under cost. Please PM me and I will share pricing and payment information ...

 

[wigwamitus]

We are up to 78 pricing queries and 24 buy commits. Thanks for participating !!

 

[Brasscow]

Were finding out the price of each before we commit correct?

PM wig for the price. There is a price where you definitely get one. You can also choose to "bid" lower. But you may get a raptar and you may get a refund. No second chances if you underbid the distributor's bottom price but if you're willing to commit at a solid price you may get a refund.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

wig do you know what kinda recoil these are rated up to? are they good on 300 prc, 300 nm 338 nm?

 

[wigwamitus]

.50BMG

 

[wigwamitus]

2019-05-09
1700-1800
40F
7 MPH N

Goal: Range IPSC(2/3) at > 800yds

Environment: Cool ! It was 38F this morning and temps under 45F the rest of the day. Solid overcast. Breeze from the north. VERY muddy. Ground like a sponge, it has been raining for 6 days ... the grass on the other hand is ZOOMING for the sky. The brome is the best I've seen it in six years.

Equipment: Rem700 7.62(20) Bravo, NF 2.5-10x MIL-R, RAPTAR S/ES v2. RRS. Kestrel 2500nv. FGMM 175gr 7.62 load mv2594.

Activity: Rolled out to signal hill and fed the cattle some range cubes to keep them busy. Then headed over to hill 1309 and set up around 800yds. This shot is over the tops of the trees to the North, along a creek that runs from West to East. The top of the creek bank is 1150 and I'm at 1300. The ground rises in my pasture on the other side of the creek and the target is in a tree line over there. I first ranged twice and got 798 both times. Then I turned around walked back six big steps and setup again. Got 804yds this time. Took pics then decided to try a shot. So threw 2 tufts of grass up and got 10 degrees off the bullet path. Then Took out the kestrel and did a 2 min wind read. Got

low: 5.8
avg: 6.9
high: 8.7

REAL AB on phone (using g7) said dial 7.7 so I cranked 77 clicks up. AB said no wind hold.
So I aimed and fired ... saw the steel dance and eventually heard CLANG.

Then rolled to the target. I knew I had forgotten to paint the target after the last session, so needed to paint it and take pics.

Compared to prior target pic, we can see today's hit. It looks different from the others anyway.

These must be magic bullets I'm firing I haven't missed one of these wind practice shots in several sessions ! The goal is first round hit, of course.

This is pic right after I setup. As you can see, I am up against the East facing fence, this is about as far back as I can get and still see the target. If I move to the left, the lay of the land blocks the target.

--

Here is thru the lens pic. First look at the top of the scope and you should be able to see the 804yds showing up there on the RAPTAR display.

Then click on the pic and zoom in as much as you can.

This IPSC (2/3) target is hanging from a 2x4. The 2x4 runs from about 0.5 mils on the right side of the center of the cross hair to about 2 mils to the right. And level with the 1 mil hash below the cross hair.
If you can see that 2x4 then below that hangs the grey IPSC target. The top of the target is level with the 1 mil line below the cross hair and goes down to the 2 mil line. The verticle center of the target is under the 1 mil to the right of the cross hair hash mark. Well I can see it anyway

--

Today's hit is to the right side of the target level with the center of the body. It is the one that looks less white than all the others.

--

And for reference, here is the target pic from back on April 6th, the last time I shot at this target. So you can check which one is today's hit by looking at that target also.


Summary/Results: So the RAPTAR can range an IPSC(2/3) target at 804yds and the FGMM 175gr ammo can get a first round hit on such a target even with me shooting it

 

[wigwamitus]

83 pricing requests, 25 buy commits, THANKS for participating !!!

 

[wigwamitus]

I have gotten some questions about mounting for the RAPTAR ES. These units will come with the "PIC RAIL ADAPTER" which is shown in this pic. It is the black pic rail section shown in the center of the pic. The RAPTAR unit itself screws down on to this pic rail adapter which can then be screwed on to any pic rail section, like on the 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock, or 6 o'clock. There is a full function pressure switch which can then be mounted farther to the rear to enable the shooter to fire the range button as needed.

There are also specific RAPTAR mounts made by Spuhr, Badger Ord. and Larue. Those mounts have the holes in them so the RAPTARs can screw down on to those mounts without using the PIC RAIL ADAPTER. But for some users, use of these dedicated mounts may not be optimal, hence the PIC RAIL ADAPTER is provided with the unit.

One further note, it is my understanding that these RAPTAR ES units we are getting do NOT come with the pouch shown in this pic. Hence I was suggesting a Condor EMT pouch in an earlier post back on page 1 of this thread, which sells for $20 on Amazon. It is exactly the same dimensions as the wilcox pouch and is available in the same multi-cam as shown in the pic.

==
Let me know if there are any questions !!!

Thanks for your participation.

 

[Tnc]

I’ll go be poor somewhere else

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, we are now at 86 pricing requests and 27 buy commits.

All those who have made buy commits, it is time to send in your money. Four people have already. I will be PM'ing you regarding more details on sending in the money.

Thanks to all for participating !!