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Rifle Scopes Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions!

BadBowtie03

BadBowtie03

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 16, 2010
785
7
39
Palmetto, FLA
#1
Hey guys I'm writing this from my cell phone cause I'm out at my property where I have been shooting for a couple days with some buddies... well I've had a few people look through my razor and everyone has the same opinion.... I just cannot get this thing to clear up at longer ranges! Up to about 200 yards its fine, but 350? No sir. 600-1000 yards??? Even worse. I reaally like everything else about this scope. The light gathering, feel of clicks, illumination, zero stops.... but its like it doesn't have enough side focus. I feel like I should be able to turn it more. Its like the side focus doesn't do much. It all looks about the same. Anyone else have this problem?

I haven't called vortex yet because its friday night and easter weekend so i wanted to ask yall.

My falcon has soo much adjustment where I can go from blurry to clear to blurry.... whereas the razor feels like its got nothing.

And yes I've played with the eye piece a lot and I just can't get it to clear up. The reticle stays clear but the target is fuzzy as can be.

Any ideas? Thanks guys.
 
#3
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Umm what's the erector housing? The mount is an American defense recon and it was torqued to 20 or 25 inch pounds... whatever the book said to do on it and I tightened it with a Wheeler scope mounting torque wrench screwdriver thing. I made sure I did it gradually also... like a car wheel. I don't think its the mount... how would that affect it anyways?
 
#4
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

With some scopes tightening down the front ring cap will actually compress the main tube to the point it will restrict the movement of the focus lens inside the tube. In a scope with side focus parallax adjustment the focus lens is what moves forwards and backwards inside the tube to compensate for the effects of parallax. If that was the issue though, the parallax knob would be noticeably more difficult to turn since it is directly connected to the lens housing.
 
#5
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badbowtie03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... but its like it doesn't have enough side focus. I feel like I should be able to turn it more. Its like the side focus doesn't do much. It all looks about the same.

</div></div>

The erector housing is the part of the scope the turrets stick out of. If the scope is slid forward in the mount where the front ring is just in front of the turrets, loosen teh front ring screws and see if the focus improves.
 
#6
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Well, the side focus isn't hard to turn at all... its actually fairly easy to turn. Its just like it doesn't do much though. From 40 yards to infinity its just not that much different. And set on infinity its blurry on high power like 15,16 up to 20x when u are looking at over 200 yards.
 
#7
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

The thing with scopes is that it is difficult to impossible to diagnose issues over the internet. There are several things that could be contributing to the issue and without knowing how they're assembled or test equipment, it's really just shooting in the dark. For example, the parallax could be set improperly, there could be a disconnect between the parallax knob and the focus lens, or the focus lens could even be in backwards. I'm not saying that is what is wrong, I'm just using those as examples because I've seen it happen. My advice is to wait until Monday, call Vortex and get the issue resolved, chances are it's not something you can fix anyway.
 
#10
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

If it is the parallax lens in a bind the parallax turret will still turn freely FYI, so don't count that out.

We get complaints like this frequently on just about every high powered scope with parallax and a Euro style ocular focus.

First you must understand that the ocular focus is not an image focus it is a reticle focus only. You set it and forget it. The problem with the fast focus type oculars is that people want to turn them all the time like a binocular focus.

Aim it at the sky so that your eye does not focus on anything other than the reticle. Start with the focus all the way in and slowly turn it out until the reticle is crisp. Put it down and let your eye rest then do it again. Once the reticle is sharp and crisp leave that focus alone.

If you are trying to use both to focus the image you will end up with results like you are claiming because one is throwing the other off.

Hope this helps you so you can continue shooting while at your property.
 
#11
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Good call, I blew right past the
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And yes I've played with the eye piece a lot and I just can't get it to clear up. The reticle stays clear but the target is fuzzy as can be </div></div>
part!
 
#12
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Well I will play with it some more... but I really think there is a problem. Maybe its to tight. Ill play with that too. But I know the eye piece or the ocular lens is suppossed to set it and forget it but I was just referring to it. That no matter what I did... it wouldn't clear up. My friend couldn't get it to set right either.
 
#13
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Well, if you're torques on the rings are 15-20, I would rule out them pinching your tube, and obstructing the erector. If it is, then it's a pretty shitty tube.
 
#15
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Well, the problem is I sent my rifle back up to my college home with a friend... I will be back with it tonight... but it might be hard for me to tell if it makes a difference until I can get it to a range. I will try it in the neighborhood, but there isnt much to look at beyond 150 yards the way the place is set up.
 
#17
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Badbowtie03,

It seemed my friends Razor was like that too.You'd want to turn the side focus farther at the longer ranges but It had come to it's stop.

Steve </div></div>

EXACTLY. Plus throughout the range it just didnt do much either. I'll keep yall posted. Thanks
 
#23
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Very close
smile.gif


We have some parts back and are waiting for the rest of the scope ring parts to come in from coating. We sent them almost 4000 parts
smile.gif
 
#24
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Hey guys, well I talked to scott at liberty optics and corey at vortex.

Either the ADM mount somehow permanently bound the side focus... or the side focus was broke to begin with... i dont know because I pretty much just mounted it up and tried it and it wasnt working right. So Its not like I have a before and after.

Like I said earlier though I mounted it to spec of the ADM instructions with a wheeler torque inch pound screwdriver.

I think I might return or exchange the scope.

I am calling Vortex again tomorrow to get a shipping label and then vortex and liberty are going to talk to figure out their end of the deal.

Just to let all the hide members know, Scott at liberty optics is one of the nicest business guys I've talked to! As well as Vortex being understanding whenever I talk to them.

I will let yall know the outcome of which scope I get instead of this one. Im either thinking about going the cheaper route and downgrading to a bushnell 4200 elite or upgrading all the way to a premier 5-15 or S&B scope.

Let me know yalls thoughts. Thanks
 
#25
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I had a similar problem with my Razor HD and ADM Recon S mount. The mount instructions clearly stated to torque the screws to 20-25 in/lbs, but I did not have the allen bit I needed for the torque wrench. I was anxious to mount the scope so I used the included allen wrench.

I found the parallax adjustment was binding and would not focus past about 150 yds. Spoke to Scott at Liberty and he referred me to Corey at Vortex. When I explained the problem Corey immediately asked me about the mount. Corey even issued me a call tag in case his suggestion didn't solve the problem. Long story short the mount was binding the scope.

I went to Sears and found the correct allen bit I needed for the torque wrench. With the scope mounted to the rifle I loosened all the ring mount screws and re-torqued the screws starting with the bottom first then moved to the top. This time I used the 25 in/lb torque wrench I purchased from Liberty with the new allen bit. My problem was immediately resolved. The parallax adjustment now travels freely through the entire range of movement, and the focus is spot on at all distances. The problem was with the mount being overtightened not the scope.

Rookie mistake trying to mount the scope with the supplied allen wrench. In my haste I had inadvertently bound the scope. Fortunately no harm done. Note to self, next time don't just read the instructions, actually follow the instructions.
 
#28
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I personally owned 3 of the Razors and everyone of them are on par with my Premier's and S&B's. Stories like this are humorous, use good rings and torque to spec. I do think Vortex screwed up big time when they went with the less popular 35mm tube, they should of done a 34mm tube, the ring selection is so much better and it would probably of avoided many problems like this.
 
#29
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badbowtie03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Let me know yalls thoughts. </div></div>

Wait until it's back, see what the real results are, no need to rush to judgement.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the tube is that soft, Vortex is gonna get a lot of these back with the same problem.</div></div>

Lots of factors at play, doubtful the tube is soft, could be an out of spec mount, etc.
 
#30
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I had the same issue with my Premier. Ring was too close to something and i moved it around until it worked. Doesn't mean the scope tube was "thin". And they were quality rings, at least in my opinion
smile.gif


We will have a bunch of 35mm rings for you shortly..
 
#32
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I unmounted the scope and it still has the exact same problem.

I did not make a mistake I used a wheeler torque driver and did them all the same and did it slowly like a car wheel... where you go back and forth and tighten slowly.

Im not sure what im going to do yet.
 
#34
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

yeah... im thinking about just getting it replaced. I just wish this wouldnt of happened.

Its just a pain to...
1. Mount the scope correctly
2. Go home from college for a weekend (2 hrs away)
3. drive to my property at home (45 mins away) <--- thats a lot gas in my truck!!!!
4. Waste ammo zeroing at 100 and not noticing the problem.
5. Then trying to shoot 330 yards and not be able to see the target...
6. Then getting all sad that its broke
7. Then driving home (45 mins)
8. Then driving to college (2 hrs)
9. Then posting all this
10. Then driving to send scope back and waiting for it to arrive
11. Then mounting (again) a week later.
12. Then going all the way home to shoot (again) and to the property and shooting more of my reloads, then finally being happy.

Thats a lot of time and money especially for someone thats just graduating college and doesnt have a good job yet. I just wish there was some kind of compensation when stuff like this happens... other than just a new scope (that I paid 2k for!)

For example, ive taken my truck in 3 times for a water leak to the dealership!!! That sucks. Its time wasted and hassle with no compensation.

Im still not sure yet what im gonna do with the scope, I just wish I could of gotten a good one. It scares me now because i've read here of this problem with other people, and i talked to scott at liberty and hes not too happy and im worried it could happen again.
 
#37
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

he's complaining about time and money !!because!! he doesnt have a job!! Remember college? most people dont have a pot to piss in at that age.
 
#38
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I'm really sorry that you're having this trouble. Definitely call us and we'll take care of it ASAP. 1-800-426-0048.

This is the first I've heard of one not focusing out of the mount.

The one other I saw had an egg shaped mount and was binding the tube pretty hard, but it sounds like that isn't the case here, so I'd like to check it personally.

-Sam
 
#39
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Wow! When I was in college and in that kind of pain I drank copious amounts of beer.
Fell down.
Slept.
Woke up and felt better.
Just saying.
 
#40
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Unfortunately, with just about everything in life there are going to be issues that are out of everyone's control. It sucks, but its just the way our crazy life is.

One way to look at a problem is not the problem itself, but how it is taken care of.

patience is something i am very short on and always have been. After running a CNC shop where time literally IS money i have gotten allot more.. When a machine is down i can throw a fit or just chalk it up to shit happens and go on with my day. Either way wont fix it any faster. Either way myself and everyone else is effected...I just choose how
smile.gif
 
#41
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kurt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">complaining about time and money and you dont have a job? </div></div>

This is my last semester in college and I'm searching for jobs right now while finishing up. I sold a couple guns to fund the Razor... thats why it bums me out pretty bad.
 
#42
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I like how you're attempting to put all the blame on Vortex wishing for some kind of compensation and taking no responsibility yourself.

Do you know if the mount is actually 35mm and not 34mm ? Is it possible the box is marked wrong.

The torque setting well... we can avoid that discussion since it puts the responsibility in your hands.

Even with Vortex offering to help, you still lament as if this was their fault, meanwhile it appears to be an issue with the rings more so than the scope. Although the scope was clearly the victim.

As someone mentioned, this isn't the only scope to have this issue, we see it happen more and more with another "high end" optic.

This is what happens with people get emotionally involved in a product... because they paid more for the scope it's automatically is the scope's fault meanwhile I don't see anything about the rings... I guess the assumption is, there could be no issue there, like a 34mm set in a 35mm box or something to that effect, because if that was the case I would suspect the results would be the same.
 
#43
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like how you're attempting to put all the blame on Vortex wishing for some kind of compensation and taking no responsibility yourself.

Do you know if the mount is actually 35mm and not 34mm ? Is it possible the box is marked wrong.

The torque setting well... we can avoid that discussion since it puts the responsibility in your hands.

Even with Vortex offering to help, you still lament as if this was their fault, meanwhile it appears to be an issue with the rings more so than the scope. Although the scope was clearly the victim.

As someone mentioned, this isn't the only scope to have this issue, we see it happen more and more with another "high end" optic.

This is what happens with people get emotionally involved in a product... because they paid more for the scope it's automatically is the scope's fault meanwhile I don't see anything about the rings... I guess the assumption is, there could be no issue there, like a 34mm set in a 35mm box or something to that effect, because if that was the case I would suspect the results would be the same. </div></div>

Vortex is great. Im not angry with them at all. Im so far VERY please with their service as I had stated earlier.

The mount is a 35mm it is marked right on the rings. I checked before I mounted it.

Scope ring torque? Well, I always did 15 in/lbs usually... This called for 20-25, so I did it on the low side at 20 inch pounds. I did it slowly and evenly as well.

If its the rings fault... then so be it. I have no idea whos it is exactly... but I got that mount as a reccommendation by Scott at liberty who said they were great. And it looks quality just like Scott said. Havent the ADM recons been proven on other scopes? Also, how could it actually "squish" the scope with what seems like such low pressure and torque? I mean 20 inch lbs is nothing in the car world! That is only 1.66 ft lbs on a torque wrench! I work on cars all the time... but maybe this type of aluminum is just soft or someting? I dunno.

Im not emotionally involved. This isnt a woman! haha! It just sucks when stuff like this happens. When you have a lot of travel time, ammo and time put into the setup and this happens.

By the way, I LOVE this optic so far. I LOVE the clicks, the illumination, the zero stops are great, the light gathering was amazing under the moon and I love the fact it can be blown up with tannerite and still perform! haha (thanks lowlight)

I will send it to Vortex and let them study the scope to see if its the scope or those mounts. I will let everyone know what they say. I'm waiting on Sam's call as I type.

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.
 
#44
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

I just talked to Corey at Vortex and a fedex shipping label is coming and I will slap it on the box and ship it to them ASAP.

He said this will be the 3rd time this has happened with the side focus. So eithe bad mounts or soft tube...

He said they are going to try and figure out if this one is the mount or scope. Apparently the other ones worked once they were out of the mount, but mine doesnt work whether in or out. Corey said they talk with ADM alot and that they are actually trying to work with them. He said they are going to sell some of ADM's stuff with their name on it, so I am shipping the mount to him also so they can test everything and figure out what the deal is.

Corey and vortex are great and I will probably end up just getting a replacement unless they can fix this one or something.
 
#45
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Well, you've got just about as much concern and support for a product issue as anyone is ever going to get. I wouldn't be quick to jump ship on the Razor.
 
#46
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

Please keep us posted and let us know what the issue is if they share the information with you. There are three separate threads in two pages about Vortex scope malfunctioning. No question though, the customer service gets an A+ from me, but QC leaves more to be desired.
 
#49
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, you've got just about as much concern and support for a product issue as anyone is ever going to get. I wouldn't be quick to jump ship on the Razor. </div></div>

Amen to that! The more I read about Vortex and how they have handled any issues, the more I am further impressed and reinforces my desire to wait on the Viper PST scopes to come out. I want to know that any company that I am willing to spend money on, will stand behind me. Vortex has been present at every turn and continues to be there when an issue arises. I am thoroughly impressed!
 
#50
Re: Razor HD clarity issue - owners offer opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any update on the cause of the problem and its resolution yet? Inquiring minds want to know!
smile.gif
</div></div>

Hey man, right now im waiting to hear back from them. It was shipped last Wednesday I think... So im sure they will be contacting me soon. I will let yall know what happens.
 
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