RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

[crackerbacks]

Ok so I just started using a Chargemaster and I am pretty pleased. The thing is I still check every load with a beam scale and trickle so that it is perfect.

So is this worth my time or does the Chargemaster throw accuratly enough to use it alone? I find I add between 0 and 5 kernels of varget.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget?

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Thats my question, I have always been a bit OCD so I have never shot hand loads with that much of a variation.

 

[JALVI]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget?</div></div>

Word...

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Your wasting your time with the Chargemaster if you still trickle and beam scale.
Just go back to throwing a slightly under weight charge with a standard measure and trickle into a beam to get it done.
OR, you could just get over that OCD and at least try some without all the extra fuss to see just what the difference might be.

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

For the price of the chargemaster you could by a good Ohaus or a Acculab. And your OCD would be complete. LOL! Acculab VIC-612 on my bench! Yeah OCD.

 

[boltstop]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

What makes you think your beam scale is more accurate than the RCBS scale?

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

get a straw from McDonald, cut a small piece and insert into the powder feeder, it helps to dispense in a finer load when the tube turns. It works for me very well.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

If you want to trickle yourself, it takes a lot less time to throw an underweight charge with a powder measure than it does with the CM.

As long as the scale reads the same 0.1gn that Im looking for, its good enough for me.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget?</div></div>



you miss the point......

technology exists that remove all doubt.....most will not see any difference in two and one half (how one get 1/2 a particle of stick powder is beyond me....)....but it will eventually show up as vertical dispersion out long......and get lost in any wind mirage shift.....YEAH so most will never shoot the difference.

to make good ammo ....one must be consistent....



i'll post the picture again if i must

 

[blklabs]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Just buy a Prometheus if you are that anal.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget?</div></div>



you miss the point......

technology exists that remove all doubt.....most will not see any difference in two and one half (how one get 1/2 a particle of stick powder is beyond me....)....but it will eventually show up as vertical dispersion out long......and get lost in any wind mirage shift.....YEAH so most will never shoot the difference.

to make good ammo ....one must be consistent....



i'll post the picture again if i must </div></div>

I know the picture you speak of...sorry I awoke the sleeping Prometheus dragon....

My point was that it is doubtful that he can outshoot such a small difference in powder. My 2.5 kernels was derived from him saying that he was adding 0-5 kernels....excuse my ignorance.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy.

 

[vman]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

lol

 

[81sfo]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy.</div></div>
What kind of 3 round groups do you see by doing this sir? Thanks in advance...

 

[blklabs]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

awesome!

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I don't shoot 3 shot groups. You don't get 2 extra chances in real life. I only need 1 shot to drop tangos.

 

[81sfo]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy.</div></div>
What kind of 3 round groups do you see by doing this sir? Thanks in advance...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot 3 shot groups. You don't get 2 extra chances in real life. I only need 1 shot to drop tangos.</div></div>
I see,...what tool is,used to cut kernels with and do you weigh those along with weighing your primers.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy. </div></div>

Pulled my leg so hard it came unjointed!
That is some funny stuff!

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy.</div></div>
What kind of 3 round groups do you see by doing this sir? Thanks in advance...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot 3 shot groups. You don't get 2 extra chances in real life. I only need 1 shot to drop tangos.</div></div>
I see,...what tool is,used to cut kernels with and do you weigh those along with weighing your primers. </div></div>

I sift my powder but if I can't find any that can get me within .000005 of a kernal, I use a Slap Chop to cut up some powder and sort by size and weight.

Another great secret that I found out was to get a vacuum and run the outlet air into my barrel between shots.

 

[81sfo]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forwardeyes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I line up and measure all the kernals going into my case. This of course is after weighing all my charges down to the kernal. And I cut single kernals to get within .000005 deviation from one load to another.

I also like to clean after every 4th shot to get optimal accuracy.</div></div>
What kind of 3 round groups do you see by doing this sir? Thanks in advance...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot 3 shot groups. You don't get 2 extra chances in real life. I only need 1 shot to drop tangos.</div></div>
I see,...what tool is,used to cut kernels with and do you weigh those along with weighing your primers. </div></div>

I sift my powder but if I can't find any that can get me within .000005 of a kernal, I use a Slap Chop to cut up some powder and sort by size and weight.

Another great secret that I found out was to get a vacuum and run the outlet air into my barrel between shots.</div></div>
Have you considered writing an Elite reloading and shooting book? I'm amazed by the level of precision you are loading to,,PM SENT!!!!

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

All is was wanting to know what kind of accuracy people were getting with the chargemaster alone. I didn't mean to get everyone on a rant.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crackerbacks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All is was wanting to know what kind of accuracy people were getting with the chargemaster alone. I didn't mean to get everyone on a rant.</div></div>





dude......first off......you owe me a new keyboard

then.......




get a clue as to what you are really seeking.......accuracy ???

how about consistency, and repeatability and speed.....

 

[JALVI]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crackerbacks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All is was wanting to know what kind of accuracy people were getting with the chargemaster alone. I didn't mean to get everyone on a rant.</div></div> '

The chargemaster is a great tool for what it is. 1/10 gr accuracy is plenty fine for 99.9% of the people on here, including myself.

There are plenty of tricks you can do to tune it up speed wise, and also the McD's straw trick will smooth out dispensing of the charge.

Good search fu will serve you well on this subject.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Someone please post a pic of where the damn straw goes. I need to try that on mine.
And no funny biz, please.

 

[JALVI]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone please post a pic of where the damn straw goes. I need to try that on mine.
And no funny biz, please.
</div></div>

All ya gotta do is:

#1 - Get a MCDONALDS straw. The diameter is perfect.
#2 - Cut about a 1" piece off, and screw it in to the dispensing tube, leaving about 1/4" sticking out.

I have found that on mine (maybe others) you can tune the length of the straw for better consistancy in dispensing with different powders.

Combine that with a good reprogramming of the dispensing parameters, and you are GTG.

YMMV

 

[Rover31]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I sift my powder but if I can't find any that can get me within .000005 of a kernal, I use a Slap Chop to cut up some powder and sort by size and weight.
</div></div>


The Slap chop I just snorted!
Thinking of Vince telling us how much more accurate your shooting will be if only you had a slap chop!

sorry back to the thread.

 

[Rover31]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

so seriously
good question...
I compared my beam to my brand new Chargemaster and...
they are 3 grains different. so which one do I believe?
How different are everyone else's measuring devices?

sorry sorry wrote that wrong! 3/10 of a grain different.

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

wow thats a big differance! I just loaded up another 100rds with the chargemaster then checking on my rcbs beam scale. the chargemaster seems to throw an average of .2 grains lighter than the beam. I always zero my beam with check weights before I use it.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crackerbacks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok so I just started using a Chargemaster and I am pretty pleased. The thing is I still check every load with a beam scale and trickle so that it is perfect.

So is this worth my time or does the Chargemaster throw accuratly enough to use it alone? I find I add between 0 and 5 kernels of varget.</div></div>

I use my chargemaster as a standalone for all of my shooting. It is accurate and always within .1 gr. I do reweigh my match loads on a beam scale for absolute consistentcy, but you should be good with the unit for all of your shooting.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Checking my Chargemaster with my VIC-123, I find that the Chargemaster scale can be up to about 0.15 grains off. That's a pretty big discrepancy, but it is also pretty rare. Most the time, the Chargemaster is within .05 grains. It is next on my to do list to test SD's of loads thrown to the kernel vs loads thrown with the Chargemaster. Part of the reason to work up a load is that there are minimal MV differences with more or less powder. I am thinking the difference in SD will be negligible or at least within the margin of error.

To be continued...

 

[Rover31]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

sorry guys I wrote that wrong
meant 3/10 of a grain different.

 

[ryhag1]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

Having looked into this in the past I came across a good article on 6MMBR. The article was discussing the accuracy of D.I./Acculabs scale compared to Chargemaster, balance beam scales. Ive experimented with what the author spoke about and found it very interesting. I left my Chargemaster on and watched the fluctuations in the zero throughout the day. Maybe it experienced drafts or interference with wireless modem, TV, florescent lighting. Whatever it was it changed throughout the day.

Does it matter in this realm of shooting. Depends on the application. F- Class yes, but Tactical matches where points are awarded with a hit on the target regardless of where it impacts. So it really is up to the shooter to take it as far as they want to go.

 

[vman]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

how about consistency, and repeatability and speed.....


</div></div>

Precisely...

So long as the CM is giving you the same amount each time, thats all that matters.

If 45.0 grains is what your CM says every time, but that 45.0grains actually reads 49.8 or 49.9 or even 45.1 (or whatever) on a properly calibrated lab scale, it doesnt matter... so long as your CM is consistent.

To give you an example, my CM throws 46.3gr of Varget, and that same charge will always read 46.0grains on my RCBS balance beam... which one is right? Who cares. Just load up using the one piece of equipment each and every time.

I would like to get a second electronic scale, just so I have something to check with but I would hope that it reads the same as my CM.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

how about consistency, and repeatability and speed.....


</div></div>

Precisely...

So long as the CM is giving you the same amount each time, thats all that matters.

If 45.0 grains is what your CM says every time, but that 45.0grains actually reads 49.8 or 49.9 or even 45.1 (or whatever) on a properly calibrated lab scale, it doesnt matter... so long as your CM is consistent.

To give you an example, my CM throws 46.3gr of Varget, and that same charge will always read 46.0grains on my RCBS balance beam... which one is right? Who cares. Just load up using the one piece of equipment each and every time.

I would like to get a second electronic scale, just so I have something to check with but I would hope that it reads the same as my CM.</div></div>

I was checking my CM loads on a Dillon Electronic, but I got tired of continually having to re-zero the Dillon. It would start drifting within 20 seconds or so. I went to a beam scale to check my CM loads instead. Not as fast, but there is no doubt as to accuracy and consistency.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I gave up on the Dillon electronic scale long ago. My first one went back to them for replacement just shy of one year from purchase. It quit holding zero. The second one is now so far off from both the CM and the RCBS 1010 beam that I will not use it for anything but weigh sorting brass now.
I trust my CM. It has been verified by my beam and by check weights. The Dillon won't pass any of those tests. What a waste of $$$.

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone please post a pic of where the damn straw goes. I need to try that on mine.
And no funny biz, please.
</div></div>

All ya gotta do is:

#1 - Get a MCDONALDS straw. The diameter is perfect.
#2 - Cut about a 1" piece off, and screw it in to the dispensing tube, leaving about 1/4" sticking out.

I have found that on mine (maybe others) you can tune the length of the straw for better consistancy in dispensing with different powders.

Combine that with a good reprogramming of the dispensing parameters, and you are GTG.

YMMV </div></div>

I did the straw thing and it seems to throw make a big differance. Problem is now it seems slower, will the reprogramming help speed it back up? Where do I find directions how to reprogram it?

 

[Fisky]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I just got my RCBS CM last weekend, and am very pleased with it so far. It dumps powder pretty consistently. I was a little skeptical to it's accuracy and consitency, and about every 4th charge I checked it against my beam scale. I have a feeling it will give me more consistency than I was getting previously. Once this weather breaks I will be testing loads from the CM against my Uniflow loads via chrony.

Before I even started dumping powder, I put the McD's straw in it and reprogrammed it. I did have to wrap some paper around the straw to get it to fit tight, otherwise it just slipped right out of the dispenser tube.

Here are the reprogramming instructions......Very easy to do!!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...227#Post2397227

 

[Nessal]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget? </div></div>


It's an OCD thing. Trust me, I got it. I personally have a problem with making everything PERFECT. I would keep second guessing myself and end up redoing and redoing and redoing the same step because I THINK it's not perfect. Or like the OP, I would do extremely redundant things because my brain keeps telling me that it's not good enough. I have to try really hard to suppress that voice in my head and just throw the damn charge and move on.

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fisky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got my RCBS CM last weekend, and am very pleased with it so far. It dumps powder pretty consistently. I was a little skeptical to it's accuracy and consitency, and about every 4th charge I checked it against my beam scale. I have a feeling it will give me more consistency than I was getting previously. Once this weather breaks I will be testing loads from the CM against my Uniflow loads via chrony.

Before I even started dumping powder, I put the McD's straw in it and reprogrammed it. I did have to wrap some paper around the straw to get it to fit tight, otherwise it just slipped right out of the dispenser tube.

Here are the reprogramming instructions......Very easy to do!!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...227#Post2397227 </div></div>

thanks!

 

[crackerbacks]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nessal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wfjames22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are defeating the purpose of having a Chargemaster.

Can you tell the difference by shooting loads that are +/- 2.5 kernels of Varget? </div></div>


It's an OCD thing. Trust me, I got it. I personally have a problem with making everything PERFECT. I would keep second guessing myself and end up redoing and redoing and redoing the same step because I THINK it's not perfect. Or like the OP, I would do extremely redundant things because my brain keeps telling me that it's not good enough. I have to try really hard to suppress that voice in my head and just throw the damn charge and move on. </div></div>

Old habits die hard. I've been loading for 20+ years and I just got used to using a progressive (dillion 650) for my pistol rounds. I used to trickle those too.

 

[gvanhyning]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I'd give up on the Chargemaster and digital scale. I have found that any of the digital scales running off your household current are not accurate. Hz and current fluctuations will really effect the digital scale accuracy. Get a 10-10 scale and send it to Scott Parker in Bakersfield, CA. He can tune the scale so it's possible to see single kernel deflection. He's currently charging $61 to tune your scale and return ship to your door. Here's his info:
Scott Parker
428 Holtby Rd.
Bakersfield CA 93304
[email protected]
(661) 364 1199

 

[Leaddog]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If 45.0 grains is what your CM says every time, but that 45.0grains actually reads 49.8 or 49.9 or even 45.1 (or whatever) on a properly calibrated lab scale, it doesnt matter... so long as your CM is consistent.
</div></div>

Consistency is certainly the key to accurate reloading, but if you are looking for a 45.0 load, but your CM is throwing a load at almost 50 grs., you are in dangerous territory. No .308 load should ever be that heavy.

 

[vman]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

The point i was trying to make is that provided the unit you have is consistent, just use that.

If you use two different types of units, which one do you believe if there is a discrepency between the two?

My handloads are all up to the necks... i can tell if something majorly wrong has happened as the powder will sit very high.

Is there anyone here running two CM's and if so do you find they are accurate when kept next to each other?

 

[Rat807]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

As gvanhyning has said the household current does fluctuate and will effect electronic devices. Florescent lighting and other electrical appliances will also add to the problems if sensative electronics are sharing the same electrical box/ground. I would recommend treating digital scales like it's a computer. It needs clean power. A simple solution would be to buy an uninterrupable power supply from APC or another well known company that will supply stable power.
Years back, I worked on digital scales and every scale had a UPS supplying it's power.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

This is an interesting read.

I have my CM plugged in to an dual kind of outlet. the left outlet is for the CM, the right outlet has a 3 way splitter in it with my computer, modem, and montior plugged into it.

Can this be causing my CM to fluctuate?

I was loading yesterday and throughout the session it would fluctuate from zero to +/- .2 grains... If i threw a charge of 24.2... I could let it sit and it would change from 24.0 to 24.4 sometimes even jump to 24.5 for a short second then settle back at 24.2.. then repeat.

I'm afraid i may be catching it at bad times and the true consistency is only at that same +/- .2 grains between my 50 rounds. so theoretically my single 5 shot group of "24.2" may have some charges at 24 and some charges at 24.5. Is that possible?

What else can cause such a fluctuation problem? The only electronics near it is my computer and monitor and wireless modem. No fluorescent lights.

 

[EWP]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

My CM(and RM 750) is plugged into a APC UPS and does not drift at all, every once in a while when the pan is removed it will drift .1gr heavy but always goes back to the pan weight within a couple seconds. I have never had to zero the scales because it drifted off to where it would not read "zero" when the pan is replaced.

I also use a RCBS RM 750 and a RCBS 5-10 beam scale to verify and trickle every charge(if match ammo). Once the CM has thrown the charge it goes into the 5-10 pan and if not perfect(usually is) I trickle until dead on(usually only +.05gr on mine if any) and then dump the charge into the RM pan to verify one last time before charging the case. This sounds slow and unnecessary but really I can weigh-trickle-weigh & charge in almost the exact amount of time it takes the CM to throw the next charge so I'm not loosing any time and every charge is triple checked with scales that all read the same(the two digitals read exactly the same and the beam will show +/- .05gr) all checked with check weights that equal the charge I'm throwing(within less than .5gr).

 

[justdave]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I noticed my phone setting near my scale causing fluctuations right before it started to ring and even a few feet away while in call. You might get your modem away from your scale and see if that helps. Any device that emits radio energy seems to cause trouble.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

I was talking on my cell on speakerphone, and perhaps the modem is causing a problem too. and static. ill have to do some experimentation...

 

[Leaddog]

Re: RCBS Chargemaster accuracy

.1 of a grain is max variation. It's pretty consistent.