I have been waiting to see what this was all about , anyone check it out at the grind and have any input ? At a 899 MSRP it seems like a great price point for its ability. I know I was 1400 into a A&D and if the RCBS even comes close to the same performance I will definitely be picking one up !
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RCBS Match Master Dispenser
- Thread starter NVScout
- Start date
How the hell are you 1400 into an AnD setup??? I guess you bought into the area419 add-on nonsense.
I'll stick to the AnD because it's a lab scale and therefore more trustworthy imo.
I'll stick to the AnD because it's a lab scale and therefore more trustworthy imo.
Of course I did !!! Why wouldn’t you ?!?
Because I don't need billet aluminum everything. I have the v3 stuff and the area419 trickler base and it works flawlessly. The base is the only thing I saw worth the massive amount of money they demanded.
To each their own ... if I were to buy another , it would be with all the add on again.
Have seen some traffic on FB about this from Sikes.
Could be an interesting new offering.
Would like to hear a street price.
R
Could be an interesting new offering.
Would like to hear a street price.
R
$950 for a full A&D fx120i scale and V3 Autotrickler/Autothrow setup.
Just one assholes opinion here but in my opinion the street price would have to be down around $500 to make it worthwhile to grab the Match-Master over the fx120i....but if it’s a strain gauge even at 500 I wouldn’t grab it.
Just one assholes opinion here but in my opinion the street price would have to be down around $500 to make it worthwhile to grab the Match-Master over the fx120i....but if it’s a strain gauge even at 500 I wouldn’t grab it.
Heard back from RCBS. it's a strain gauge scale.
So it's a less accurate, possibly faster, inferior balance A&D for similar money. I think RCBS has a big dull dud on their hands. The only real market for this would need it to be priced in that $450-$550 range.
So it's a less accurate, possibly faster, inferior balance A&D for similar money. I think RCBS has a big dull dud on their hands. The only real market for this would need it to be priced in that $450-$550 range.
They’ll sell pretty good I bet.
Lotsa guys out there with money that haven’t got things figured out.
Look at the Harley Davidson market for instance.
Lotsa guys out there with money that haven’t got things figured out.
Look at the Harley Davidson market for instance.
The best thing about the Match Master (so far, since it's not on shelves), is that it has pushed street prices on the Chargemaster 1500 to $2690-$299. The Chargemaster 1500 is a good value that complements my skill level and loading process.
I’ll buy a second chargemaster for <250$ When everyone starts unloading instead. getting single digit low SD’S and es with my chargemaster I can’t see sinking the money into the New hype. Im by no means a seasoned reloader or a top shooter but for 250$ throwing them numbers I’ll take it. ?
Hell I am using two chargemaster lights and getting phenomenal SD and ES. Planning on an AnD in the future, there's absolutely no reason to buy this as a middle of the road as far as I can see.
In addition, one only need to swing a dead cat to find people who have been burned by RCBS customer service on their electronic dispensing equipment. They do not stand behind these items at ALL.
In addition, one only need to swing a dead cat to find people who have been burned by RCBS customer service on their electronic dispensing equipment. They do not stand behind these items at ALL.
This. IMO obsessing over charge weight is a futile endeavor. Even at .2gr accuracy(I know ours throws much more accurately than that by beam scale verification) you are talking about a 0.5% variation on a typical Creedmoor load. If my load won’t shoot just as good with a .5% variation in charge weight I’ll be looking for a new load not a new scale!
You said a mouthful there, lol
I am on # 4 & 6 chargeamster, they did do the replacement 45 buck deal on 2 of mine before abandoning that policy. At 850, risk becomes substantial, even though I will own one of these for sure.
Yeah, it's a real shame. I had not read all of the stories when I got my CM lites, fringers crossed they hold up for another year or so.
^THIS is what I'm curious about. New to precision rifle but not new to reloading. I see a lot of guys here putting in money and effort to get the A & D FX120i/auto trickle. I understand the value of time but besides that, do these same guys feel they are getting measurable improvements down range?? Appreciate the advice, thanks.
I did NOT trust my chargemaster, at all. I trust my AnD and that clinches it for me.
Also, it's .02 not .2. Not sure if that was a typo or not.
I spent a lot of time verifying my CM with a beam when I first got it. It can act up if air blows on it, static gets on it, etc... But I learned pretty quickly how it acts when it’s on and how it acts when it’s off. If you give it the right environment and don’t disturb it it is very fast and accurate. Mine is anyway.
I don’t follow your math. 42 x 0.5%= .21 so if you are +/- .2 gr your load is off by .5% no? Mine typically throws under a tenth off.
Sorry, misread. I thought you were talking about the resolution of the scale. However, I do think that even .5% or .21gr can make a HUGE difference. Just my .02.
I agree. +/- 0.2 grains can definitely make a difference in whether the bullet lands where you intend it to or not. From low end to high end of that difference you could see a difference of up to 30-40fps or greater.
I went with the A&D because it gives me confidence that what the scale is reading is the weight it actually is, assuming no airflow interference
I went with the A&D because it gives me confidence that what the scale is reading is the weight it actually is, assuming no airflow interference
I agree, .2 off is not acceptable. But that’s because it’s too easy to be within .05gr; not because it makes a huge difference on the target(assuming you did work and found the load) I just used .2 as a worst case scenario.
In reality mine is throwing within .05 gr as long as it is happy. But I have no doubt my 6.5 and larger loads would shoot just as good with a .2 variation. Sure the numbers wouldn’t be as good but 40fps is a stretch IMO. The smaller Valkyrie load/case would be affected more but again, these are hypotheticals.
More power to anyone who wants to use a super high resolution lab scale, it’s definitely not hurting anything. But to the new reloaders out there- it’s not necessary as long as you work up a good load and have a temp stable powder. Finding a large window of stability is the name of the game and I think a lot of times that is substituted for “small groups” during load work up. We see it here constantly when guys post OCW targets and ask for help interpreting them.
Are any F class shooters using a Chargemaster? I don't personally know any that are but I'm curious. I know the BR crowd used to volume drop but I don't think that's happening much anymore. I've got the FX and CM but dont use the CM anymore except to set a rough charge weight. It served me well for quite awhile but consistency definitely goes to the FX.
Two dispenser tubes like a pact is my observation. A dealer buddy of mine said the email he received notifying him of this coming out verified it will have an $8XX street price.
FWIW I use my charge master to throw a "rough' weight and trickle on my A&D to weight. The charge master set 0.3 grains low often throws too heavy a charge but says the weight is correct and stable. My charge master has been replaced once and is powered by a clean current system along with always given a 30 minute warm up time with frequent re-zero. The A&D never varies the calibration weights are exact to 0.01 every time. If I leave the weight on the charge master the weight wanders up/down 0.2-0.3 grains . Hard to feel confident about that. If you are shooting deer under 500 yards probably no big deal but if you want to kill paper with under 0.5 MOA I think it does matter.
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People misunderstand electronic scales. Temp changes are what cause them to drift. But as it drifts the charge remains the same as long as the pan is zeroed when the charge starts to drop. The *measurement* is not drifting. The baseline is drifting. So as long as it says ZERO when the drop starts you will still get the correct charge. The scales ability to measure 42 grains is not drifting. It is in it's own environment that is only connected to real world weights in terms of zeroing.
So what is drifting is the baseline, not the measurement. When I remove my pan it may say -154.4 at first then an hour later it may say -153.7. That's a huge difference, man these loads must be crap! No. The measurement is not drifting, the baseline is drifting. It knows how much 42gr weights no matter what it interprets as the weight of an object you set on it. As long as it says zero when it starts to dump, it will get it right.
That is not what is happening here. The charge master is sitting directly next to an A&D FX120i which never wavers even 0.01 grain during an entire reloading session. My reloading room is climate controlled in my house. All the charges thrown by the RCBS are trickled to exact weight on the A&D scale so every charge weight id double checked. There is considerable variability from displayed weight on the RCBS and none of the charges is removed until the scale shows "Stable". Both scales are plugged into a current conditioner to make sure there is no wavering in the current. Trust me on this, the thrown weights are not staying constant . Placing a calibrated weight on the scale with another on the A&D and it never wavers while the RCBS goes both up and down. Both scale have draft shields and that makes no difference either.
I was talking about..... "If I leave the weight on the charge master the weight wanders up/down 0.2-0.3 grains . Hard to feel confident about that ".
I thought that's what you were concerned with. It is temperature that is doing this. I am 100% climate controlled and it still does it. You will still get fluctuations in temp as the system cycles on and off.
As for your description of incorrect/inconsistent charge weights, it sounds like there is something wrong. I double check mine on a beam scale a lot and it is dead on 99.9 % of the time. I actually used to check it more but it was correct so often that I don't check it much anymore. I let it run and have mostly great SD/ES numbers. What kind of pan are you using? I got two plastic pans and matched their weight exactly in an attempt to be able to pull a pan and set a pan at the same time. The weights were all over the place with the plastic pans for some reason. Possibly static but I abandoned the idea and went back to the metal pan as it would have only saved me a couple of seconds per charge.
Not sure I agree as I have matching calibration weights and there is never any variation with the A&D when the weights are on both scales at the same time. I have matching metal pans which I matched the weights exactly using a Dremel to lighten the heavy one. The RCBS isn't a bad device but the group posted above is from a rifle that always shot .75 MOA until I used the more accurate scales.
I’m not saying you don’t have variations. What I’m telling you is that there is a problem with your CM or set up if it can’t consistently throw charges. That and if your rifle went from .75 moa to .35 moa just from changing scales I can guarantee you have an issue with it. My rifles shoot groups of the same size and I use a CM. Hell I could intentionally charge my cases 0.1 above and below my OCW and still shoot the same groups. Group size is not at all a good indicator of how accurate your scale is.
It seems I hear about a lot more CM problems and Autotrickler problems. It could be a shear numbers game. I have not had a CM to test, but had friends that did. They seemed to do well with power conditioners, the straw trick and the speed reprogrammed.
I went to the Autotrickler setup for speed. I am thrilled with it. I was afraid I was going to have to do all kinds of crazy things with granite slabs and rubber mats to get it to work well. I had a Lyman DPS that was very finicky and I assumed set up was the reason.
I plopped the Autotrickler setup on the bench, leveled it, and went to town. No drifting. No problems. I paid around $950 for the V3 setup. I have upgraded nothing. It works very well.
I have nothing bad to say about the match master, but when they are basically the same price, I feel the Autotrickler setup is more proven, and you have the MFR of the FX120i vs. the strain gauge setup of the match master.
I went to the Autotrickler setup for speed. I am thrilled with it. I was afraid I was going to have to do all kinds of crazy things with granite slabs and rubber mats to get it to work well. I had a Lyman DPS that was very finicky and I assumed set up was the reason.
I plopped the Autotrickler setup on the bench, leveled it, and went to town. No drifting. No problems. I paid around $950 for the V3 setup. I have upgraded nothing. It works very well.
I have nothing bad to say about the match master, but when they are basically the same price, I feel the Autotrickler setup is more proven, and you have the MFR of the FX120i vs. the strain gauge setup of the match master.
After my post 7+ months ago, I've done many tests with my CM vs V2 and now V3 and found the CM to be very accurate - always within a kernel or two verified on my FX. I'd have no problem using the CM if my V3 went down as I think there are many other variables that could affect absolute accuracy. I do trust my V3 for the most perfect powder charges.
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I know this is an old thread, but it bears repeating: if you aren't getting good loads out of your Chargemaster, and it's functioning/weighing properly, there's something wrong on the user's end! I see no difference on the chrono, on paper, or at range on loads thrown on the Chargemaster or FX120i. The resolution of the FX allows me to get down to a single kernel of powder, and the reason I bought the FX is simply because it throws charges faster, but it's not like my Chargemaster was throwing 42.8 grains and telling me it was 42.2. My Chargemaster was throwing a kernel under to a kernel or two over when compared to my FX. If a kernel or two is creating that much of a difference in your loads, you have other problems. There are certainly valid reasons not to buy a Chargemaster, but thinking you'll see a difference downrange isn't one of them
That's a rather broad statement. I was consistently getting +/- .2 error on my old CM as verified by my FX. As the CM got older, the errors got worse. It wasn't user error. I bought a second CM to speed things up, and it too would drift. Meaning, the scale would show 43.0 and the FX would confirm it was a tenth either way. It's just the nature of the beast with a load cell scale. It's essentially a variable resistor. Apply a load, resistance changes, measure voltage output, divide by 1024 and you get your result. Temperature, static, voltage variations both at the wall and out of the transformer all make life hard for a load cell.
I'm sure the CM is great for 98% of the reloaders on this forum. Some of us require more accuracy and consistency. Yes it's a $1000 to go with a V3. It's at least a $1000 to fly to just a single two-day match. If you are in the aforementioned group, you're crazy to not show up with the best ammo you can make.
I switched to a V3 and AMP annealed brass at the same time. Coincidentally, I laid down the best groups from that barrel right after the switch. Finally got those elusive single digit SD's and an ES of 12. I still keep a CM under my bench in case of emergencies, but I know that I will have to temper my expectations.
If you guys got good CM's, I applaud you. There are a lot of us that can't share in your success.
So, what you're saying is you agree with what I wrote, since I very specifically said "when it's functioning/weighing properly"
The reason I wrote my post and worded it the way I did was to say you don't need to spend $900+ to buy an FX120i or even more to get a Prometheus to produce high quality ammunition. I'm very aware of the Chargemaster's limitations, hence why I said, "when it's functioning/weighing properly". At this point, the Chargemaster is probably the least expensive combination of speed and efficiency, considering they're selling for $225 in the PX and the guys who are selling them are not going to risk their reputations selling duds
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I will concede that IF a CM were to work as advertised (which two of them have failed to do for me so far) then we would be in agreement. The rest of your post, I disagree with based on my experience. As I said, if you got a winner, congrats.
....but guys... this new Chargemaster has two dispensers. So you can trickle while you trickle and load while you load.
V3 for me.
V3 for me.
HEY...where do you guys recommend buying the R&D scale? And what setup? I already have a electronic trickier. I currently have a c hargemaster that I use for weighing 22 so to put into like groups and I shoot Center fire F Class.
I looked at the reviews and the Matchmaster does not look that inviting! Thanks
After reading the post on this thread...i decided to buy the A&D scale. I found a place in Texas called MnMscales. I bought the FX 120. I got free shipping with a 100g set weight...for 745.00 out the door. I paid for it last Friday and received it the following Monday. Mary was very helpful. Her number is 832 290 3120.
I hope im smart enough to figure out how to set it up
I hope im smart enough to figure out how to set it up
You could have gotten it for 500 if you bought where everyone else does.
A&D FX-120i Reloading Scale and AutoTrickler Combo
ceproducts.shop
DANG... I asked and somebody told me ceproducts. I search the web an eBay and the best price i found for all these were 745 plus tax and shipping. Anyway...im happy. It seems to be super precision over my charger master. ThanksYou could have gotten it for 500 if you bought where everyone else does.
A&D FX-120i Reloading Scale and AutoTrickler Combo
You quoted yourself just now but its... at the link in my post that you originally quoted. Read the page and youll see the discount code to use.
I see it NOW. I went on their website but I didn't see the discount code. I did try to call them but did not answer.
Anyway...i hate I missed the better price. Probably NOT the first time I paid the most for something ;-)
Thanks
