RCBS Matchmaster Instability

Dimefox

Private
Minuteman
Dec 4, 2021
73
46
PA
My Matchmaster has really been struggling lately to remain stable. When it's "good", the reading will just randomly fluctuate something like +/- 0.1 grain. When it's bad, it'll swing up or down more than 0.5 grain, sometimes more. Zeroing and recalibrating do nothing to help. It's been powered on for days (plugged into a Tripplite Isobar) and sits next to a three place analytical balance that's steady as can be. It's in the basement with dehumidifiers running, humidity around 50. There's no major vibrations or draft. I've turned off the dehumidifiers and fans and that makes no difference (they aren't blowing near it anyways). I've even moved it off the table onto the concrete floor and it still bounces around. I can be 10 feet away and watch it bounce around. I suspect my environmental conditions are ok since my other, more sensitive balance is steady eddie.

Initially, I thought my problem was static. Wiped the whole thing down with a dryer sheet. No effect. Read somewhere I think on here a guy said you can put a piece of aluminum foil under it, attach a wire with an alligator clip to the foil and run the other end of the wire to earth ground, no effect (that might total bull, but I'm no electromagician..it cost me nothing to try). Wiped the whole thing down with 100% IPA just for the hell of it, then stuffed the hopper with a bunch of dryer sheets and covered/surrounded the whole thing with more dryer sheets the other day. I can still see the screen through the sheet and it's still swinging.

I'm thinking it might be more of a power issue. From day 1, when I move the unit just a little bit, like to drain the powder, it will power off. RCBS sent me a new power supply. The lady I talked to said they had some power supplies that went out that had a plug that was slightly shorter than it should be. Still does this with the new plug, but not quite as often.

When it's stable and stays on, it's very accurate. I work in a lab, so I know my way around balances. I checked 10 or 15 charges on a $15k four place analytical balance and it was spot on within the accuracy RCBS advertises.

Anyone else experience issues like this? I left a voicemail with @Team RCBS & Bushnell late last week and am waiting to hear back. I'm getting to the point where I'm just gonna say fuck it and buy a V4.
 
Sounds like you still have a power supply issue to me. Might as well double check that no kernels got underneath the platen.

Anyone else experience issues like this? I left a voicemail with @Team RCBS & Bushnell late last week and am waiting to hear back.
Response times seem to have slowed since Hornady recently acquired them, will probably pick back up once the dust settles
I'm getting to the point where I'm just gonna say fuck it and buy a V4.
This or ST is what I would do
 
I'll check for kernels under the platen but don't believe that to be the case. I've wiped the entire unit down at least 3 times now and didn't see anything.

No fluorescent lights in the basement. Everything is LED. It is plugged into the same circuit as the LEDs in the area, but the Matchmaster is plugged into an Isobar FWIW. The idiots that built my house only put 1 fucking outlet in the entire basement and it's about 50 feet away. That outlet is on a dedicated circuit with no lights. I considered this as a potential problem but thought it was low on the list of possibilities. I think I have a long extension cord I can run and see if that helps at all.
 
I'll check for kernels under the platen but don't believe that to be the case. I've wiped the entire unit down at least 3 times now and didn't see anything.
I said that just to be safe, thinking it was unlikely... but if you've already checked, that's not going to be your issue.

You've already tested it on a different outlet upstairs? If not, I'd definitely do that. If the electrician ran an inappropriate gauge a long distance, that may be your issue. You could also test the outlet in your basement with a multimeter, both running everything else downstairs (lights, dehumidifier, etc.) & with everything powered off.
 
I said that just to be safe, thinking it was unlikely... but if you've already checked, that's not going to be your issue.

You've already tested it on a different outlet upstairs? If not, I'd definitely do that. If the electrician ran an inappropriate gauge a long distance, that may be your issue. You could also test the outlet in your basement with a multimeter, both running everything else downstairs (lights, dehumidifier, etc.) & with everything powered off.
I haven't moved it upstairs yet. I'll try that. I'm mid load development and was hoping it would straighten itself out. If that does work, it would be easier than coming into work early and spooning powder out on our analytical balance lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: R_A_W
Most surge suppressors typically do just that... Suppress surges/transient voltages. They aren't really designed to filter garbage off the line.

Some will though. You would have to check your specific model to find out for sure.

Just about every device that utilizes electronics will transform line voltage down to a lower voltage and then rectify it to DC. And there can be a whole host of other crap going on... This can screw with the sine wave and introduce all kinds of problematic garbage back on to the line...

This ^^^ includes LED lighting.

Is that your problem? I don't know. But if you have "dirty" power and you're running several feet of extension cord... Maybe. I can't see the MatchMaster pulling enough load to cause voltage drop at 50 feet +/-. It would take an ammeter and oscilloscope to see if there's an actual issue.

I'd love to be able to tell you that installing a line filter would solve the issue. But if this just started happening out of the blue...

Do all the free stuff first.

Mike
 
Moved it upstairs yesterday, plugged it into a circuit that doesn't have lights...still dancin'.

As far as I understand, the Isobar is supposed to filter out electric crap. I still think the issue has to do with the unit itself. My other balance sits right next to it on the table and is plugged into the Isobar as well (a different outlet bank though) and it just stays at zero, even with the draft guard off.
 
Run it off a UPS battery with sine wave converter.

All your problems will magically go away.


Something similar to that. Do your home work and find one which suits you.

As @OkieMike said. If its on a circuit which has fluro or lights, it will give you endless headaches.
 
Run it off a UPS battery with sine wave converter.

All your problems will magically go away.


Something similar to that. Do your home work and find one which suits you.

As @OkieMike said. If its on a circuit which has fluro or lights, it will give you endless headaches.
I have something like that at work I can borrow for the evening to try.

Legit question though: if power were an issue, wouldn't my other, more sensitive balance see the same instability if the power were dirty? It's plugged into the same Isobar.
 
I have something like that at work I can borrow for the evening to try.

Legit question though: if power were an issue, wouldn't my other, more sensitive balance see the same instability if the power were dirty? It's plugged into the same Isobar.
Your higher end device may have a line filter/conditioner installed. They usually install them in the cord (bulge in the cord next to the plug) but could be internal I suppose.

Or your MM has shit the bed.

Just trying to think of all the no cost/low cost variables you can test/eliminate before you pronounce TOD on the MM.

Mike
 
Maybe be totally unrelated but.... I found with my old PACT scale, if I want it to be steady and accurate, I need to turn it on a day or so before I use it. (This is in a humid musty basement.) I didn't always need to do this, but I've learned in recent years I do.


(Someone will no doubt say "leave it on all the time", perhaps. But I've been using it like 30 years now, shutting it off each time. Maybe that's why it's lasted 30 years.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: OkieMike
Plugged it into a Cyberpower sine wave battery pack gizmo yesterday afternoon. Still dancing this morning. Seems like it's fucked bc I'm out of ideas.

Still no word back from RCBS yet.
 
Thats a RMA issue. Might need some hardware / software calibration. All the tricks listes by everyone here solves 99% of problems. The rwst of 1% is a truly borked scale. Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baron23
Yeah i'd say it's fucked. Borrowed a Haug Deionizer from one of my labs. Blasted it with the deionizer to kill any static and it had zero effect. Now if I could only get RCBS on the phone...

Probably ordering a Supertrickler tomorrow out of spite.
 
Yeah i'd say it's fucked. Borrowed a Haug Deionizer from one of my labs. Blasted it with the deionizer to kill any static and it had zero effect. Now if I could only get RCBS on the phone...

Probably ordering a Supertrickler tomorrow out of spite.
Damn, been wanting one of those Matchmasters too. Disappointing news.
 
Yeah i'd say it's fucked. Borrowed a Haug Deionizer from one of my labs. Blasted it with the deionizer to kill any static and it had zero effect. Now if I could only get RCBS on the phone...

Probably ordering a Supertrickler tomorrow out of spite.
You will learn to hate the Stupidtrickler to.
 
You will learn to hate the Stupidtrickler to.
How so? Any advice/experiences are greatly appreciated.
I'm open to the idea of a V4...it is cheaper. My thought with the ST is I don't need an app to run it. If the V4 app ever stops being supported, Im shit out of luck. ST can go out of business but I can still use it
 
Wait for the Ingenuity Precision trickler set up. Or buy a V2-3 and just the IP trickler

The stupidTrickler over throws more than I cared for. The V4 can be very picky about what tilt for which powder. It’s your call.
 
Last edited:
ST you just have to put more effort into getting it set up, once you do they're great. I'm new to the ST, but I can throw H4350 to +/-0.02gr in ~11 seconds & probably around 90% accuracy, but I haven't pulled my stats.

That being said, the IP complete system does look like it's going to be pretty awesome & definitely easier to use.

I'd pick a ST/IP/ATv4 over a Matchmaster every single time & never look back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Herb Stoner
Cell phone is upstairs. I dont normally carry it around with me.

Ordered a V4. I was split between that and the ST, really coulda went either way. Figured save the $300-400 over the ST, maybe add the IP trickler thing later for that much. Didn't want to wait until the end of the year for the IP system.
 
I got a V2 auto trickler. Never over throws. If it does, its 0.02gr. Its always spot on, or -0.02/0.04, which is great for me. 99% of the time its spot on.

Guess i lucked out.